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Originally Posted by Owlhorn
This isn't true at all, Dallas does have TOD zoning. Dallas wasn't as dense as Portland in the first place. Most dense residential areas in Dallas were built after the rail line was planned and opened in many cases. Uptown, last ten years. Brian Place, Last ten years, Victory Park, last ten years. The thing is, the areas that grew to be dense in the past ten years are near rail stations, all with land immediately adjacent to rail stations. What did they all choose to do? Build the furthest away from the rail stations that they could. Yes, I'm looking at you Cityville, Galatyn Park, Victory Park and West Village.
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No, they do not have TOD zoning. The only thing close to it is 10% lower parking within a certain radius of a rail station. All the things you mentioned were either allowed in the current zoning, or more likely, required a zoning change. Mocingbird Station, for example, was an area with little zoning controls. The developer secifically chose that site for that reason along the rail line. Dallas was not, just as with the Ambrose, West Village, Downtown, etc., proactive in creating dense developments. (I wrote a research paper on that topic).
As for your developments, that is another indication of bad growth controls. Victory, for example, actively fought against the Green Line running down Houston and therefore within the development. Dallas city leaders obliged and told their appointees to the DART board no to Houaton. This also shows the critique the author posted and I agreed with, that running near freeways is bad for ridership.
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The areas that were dense as far as population density(Lake Highlands, Presbyterian areas) did get stations.
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Lake Highlands just got a station five days ago and it still suffers from being in an old freight ROW. Its main saving grace is that a freeway does not run on one side. The "dense" part of Lakehighlands is still a ways away.
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The problem you have now is rapid gentrification in those areas. The existing and torn down apartments were garden style, but huge, tall complexes with high densities of people that are/were train and bus dependent. They are being replaced "in the future", by town center style developments, complete with townhomes, condos and apartments in a more new urbanist style. Problems with this:
- Not nearly as dense
- Higher socioeconomic population who is far less dependent on public transit
- Most of this simply did NOT happen. The apartments were torn down due to code loopholes, now we have big fields with the roads built and no development. Awesome.
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Dense depends on development. Los Angeles-style dense is less transit friendly than New York dense, even if the people per square mile is the same.
The second point is most definately true, but it also depends largely on the rest of the region. If it is transit-accessible in a convenient manner, people will ride it. The more the region is accessible, the more the ridership.
The lack of development is always a problem, but in pro-growth cities like Dallas, demo has always happened without question, while development is a little more questionable.
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Originally Posted by jtk1519
That is a very poor comparison and I think you know it. One, Uptown does not have the population densities to justify an underground metro system (nor does the rest of Dallas for that matter). Two, the astronomical costs associated with such a system make it near impossible. And the reality is that Dallas is and always will be an auto-centric city which NYC clearly is not. The goal in Dallas is not to create a system that will render the automobile unnecessary as it is in NYC, but to provide a viable alternative.
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Light rail does not mean subway. That is one option. The most likely outcome for light rail is like the transit mall downtown or on Lancaster. Surface running in the median. Depending on the design, speeds can still be quite high, with a greater degree of usage.
But why will Dallas always be auto-centric? Political will is my answer. But as long as we continue to build and expand freeways, continue to build rail lines like we do and have little land use controls, it will always be.
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As an example, I would point out LA's transit system which includes underground metro where logistics and density allow for it, in addition to light rail, commuter rail, BRT and I believe LA has some streetcar plans in the works. LA is the model for Dallas... not NYC.
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Uptown, at near 22,000 people per square mile (New York as a whole is 26,000) is the densest residential area in the city. Downtown at over 100,000 jobs per square mile is the densest job. Uptown is second at levels near 30-40,000. The same can be said for Los Angeles' downtown area, where the subways are.
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I clearly explained that when I said ultimately the true potential of DART's light rail system will only be realized if and when it is layered with other transit option to connect the dots so to speak. If 50 years down the road all Dallas has is the LRT system as it will exist with the opening of the Orange line, then yes, the criticism in that article will be legitimate. But if you read what I said and see the LRT system as the first major step to a greater transit system, then what I said makes perfect sense.
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Yes, you did say that. No one is disagreeing with it, as it stands today. There is one problem. A properly designedLRT system would have avoided that. When you mention that streetcars are better for uptown, I disagree. However, the way the rail system is built right now, it is.
This whole debate stems from the article that detailed why DART has poor ridership compared to peer cities and systems. None of the reasons who have detailed say why. Portland has buses like Dallas, has a streetcar line like Dallas and has a light rail system like Dallas, yet tons more ridership. Why? For all the reasons listed. Adding more streetcar lines won't do much. Transfers tend to lower ridership and this system has been built with an inordinate amount of them needed to get around. Transfers also include personal autos.
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But once again, DART really isn't an urban rail system so to criticize it for not being that when it was never intended to be that seems kinda silly.
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Let me repeat, light rail is a cheaper form of heavy rail, with both designed for urban use. If DART wanted to design a system for commuters, as you seem to suggest, it should have done commuter rail, like the TRE, for considerably less money.
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I agree, it acts like that once you get to Mockingbird Station and then into downtown, but that is why I and other have purposefully called DART what it is... a hybrid commuter system. The hybrid part of it of course being that area downtown and surrounding where it operates more as a true urban rail.
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So why can't it act more like urban rail in the dense mixed-use areas, instead of being built near highways? Hypothetically speaking (I already know the reasons), why couldn't the subway under Central be under McKinney? A Knox-Henderson Station near where it would be if there were one today, plus two Uptown Stations at Blackburn/Lemmon and Maple/Pearl would have exponentially more riders than the current Cityplace.
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I get what you're saying and I get the point the article was making. all I am saying is that the fundamental flaw with that argument (and presumably yours) is that you are criticizing DART for not being something it was never intended to be.
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You slightly missed my point. I know what it was intended to be. I think what it was intended to be is flawed, as the article points out. Right now it is operating as its design was intended to be, with its poor ridership going along for the ride .
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Now, as I said before, if you want to fault DART for starting with this system instead of starting with a true urban rail system, then that is fine (of course, as electricron said the politics and funding, more than 40% of which comes from outside the city of Dallas, means DART almost needed to start this way). But you can't fault the system for not being what it was never supposed to be.
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I have already made the point about politics, but that doesn't make it completely what it is. A light rail line down Harry Hines/Denton Highway would carry more riders than the current alignment, with little to no increased costs. The densest part of the current system outside of downtown is the Blue Line south, the one that runs in the median of Lancaster.
The simple key to transit is to go where people want to go, from where people are. DART's rail system misses that mark by a big margin.