HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 5:25 PM
Jamaican-Phoenix's Avatar
Jamaican-Phoenix Jamaican-Phoenix is offline
R2-D2's army of death
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Downtown Ottawa
Posts: 3,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Maybe we could just have the GTA and Ottawa (amalgamated with Gatineau, QC) become their own City States and keep the rest of Ontario intact. That puts every other city on level ground instead of having to constantly compete for attention against cities on a whole different playing field.
True, but even in such an instance, I would campaign for Northern Ontario's splitting off from Ontario. They are different worlds.
__________________
Franky: Ajldub, name calling is what they do when good arguments can't be found - don't sink to their level. Claiming the thread is "boring" is also a way to try to discredit a thread that doesn't match their particular bias.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 5:38 PM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix View Post
True, but even in such an instance, I would campaign for Northern Ontario's splitting off from Ontario. They are different worlds.
Most people think that North Bay and Thunder bay are close to each other.

It takes longer to get there than from the ferry terminal in Sidney NS to Quebec City!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 6:03 PM
haljackey's Avatar
haljackey haljackey is offline
User Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3,197
I'd like to see Ottawa/Gatineau become it's own federal district, similar to Canberra, Australia.
__________________
My Twitter

My Simcity Stuff
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 7:42 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
Most people think that North Bay and Thunder bay are close to each other.

It takes longer to get there than from the ferry terminal in Sidney NS to Quebec City!
It's about 1,600 km (about 18 hours of driving) from North Bay to Kenora, which shows the vast size of northern Ontario.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 7:54 PM
ue ue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix View Post
Do either of you care to elaborate on why not?
I think I did in one of the three threads on this topic right now, but I can restate...

Northern Ontario is constantly ignored and also feels culturally distinct enough from Southern and Eastern Ontario to become its own province or just be annexed by Manitoba as the two share a lot in common, especially from T Bay westwards.

I never much understood splitting Eastern and Southern Ontario off from each other - except Ottawa - because the two felt like different sides of the same coin. Kingston and Cobourg aren't worlds away from London and St. Catharine's. So to me, the two except for Ottawa, should stay together.

Ottawa and the National Capital Region I think would make sense as its own province a la DC or the ACT. It would get rid of problems associated with being a large city ignored by the province as well as give the federal government perceived neutrality over which provinces it favours because it would no longer be in an existing province. That doesn't mean the federal government couldn't still favour Ontario in the future, but it works in a symbolic sense, I guess.

Toronto would be weird having its own province, in my opinion. I mean, yeah, there are some sound arguments for it to happen, but it'd be like siphoning London from England or the Tri-State Area from NY/NJ/CT. It isn't like Hamburg or Hong Kong which have a history of having their own separate regions. Toronto has only existed within the construct of Ontario, in Southern Ontario, and is the centre of the region. It is tied to Hamilton, KW, Niagara, Muskoka, London, Barrie, etc.

I hope that clears up your question.

Edit: 7000th post!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 9:37 PM
haljackey's Avatar
haljackey haljackey is offline
User Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3,197
The mege between Manitoba and Northern Ontario discussed here made me think of this:



22 Minutes Depicts Rob Ford's Canada
http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comme..._fords_canada/

__________________
My Twitter

My Simcity Stuff
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 9:45 PM
bornagainbiking bornagainbiking is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Hamilton
Posts: 805
Another level of taxation.

This makes sense, I have lived in Northern Ontario (Soo), Central (Barrie), Golden Horseshoe and also Kenora, As for Kenora it is already administered commercially by Manitoba, Like RBC includes it in "Manterio".
Northern Ontario may be ignored as it usually votes NDP??????
But just think, exactly what we need more politicians and associated costs.
Let Toronto go on it's own!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 10:02 PM
Jamaican-Phoenix's Avatar
Jamaican-Phoenix Jamaican-Phoenix is offline
R2-D2's army of death
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Downtown Ottawa
Posts: 3,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by ue View Post
I think I did in one of the three threads on this topic right now, but I can restate...

Northern Ontario is constantly ignored and also feels culturally distinct enough from Southern and Eastern Ontario to become its own province or just be annexed by Manitoba as the two share a lot in common, especially from T Bay westwards.

I never much understood splitting Eastern and Southern Ontario off from each other - except Ottawa - because the two felt like different sides of the same coin. Kingston and Cobourg aren't worlds away from London and St. Catharine's. So to me, the two except for Ottawa, should stay together.

Ottawa and the National Capital Region I think would make sense as its own province a la DC or the ACT. It would get rid of problems associated with being a large city ignored by the province as well as give the federal government perceived neutrality over which provinces it favours because it would no longer be in an existing province. That doesn't mean the federal government couldn't still favour Ontario in the future, but it works in a symbolic sense, I guess.

Toronto would be weird having its own province, in my opinion. I mean, yeah, there are some sound arguments for it to happen, but it'd be like siphoning London from England or the Tri-State Area from NY/NJ/CT. It isn't like Hamburg or Hong Kong which have a history of having their own separate regions. Toronto has only existed within the construct of Ontario, in Southern Ontario, and is the centre of the region. It is tied to Hamilton, KW, Niagara, Muskoka, London, Barrie, etc.

I hope that clears up your question.

Edit: 7000th post!
That does clear things up a bit, yes.

I know there are some in Northern Ontario who feel that the areas west and north of Thunder Bay should become a part of Manitoba, but it seems to be a passing statement with little to no stock given into it. I support a province of Northern Ontario that can better develop its resources and economy, and have greater control over its infrastructure.

As for splitting Eastern Ontario, I'm more against that than anything else. It would be very small and have a small population. It would be maybe 1.5 million inhabitants, and its economy would centre around Ottawa, agriculture, and tourism and that's about it.

Plus, if Ottawa was a federally administered territory (like DC and Canberra), that opens a whole new can of worms and as we've seen with the current government, they don't care about this city.

It's interesting that you bring up London because it's not a part of any English county or parish. It's literally it's own city-state within England. The City and the "Greater London" regional authority have the exact same boundaries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London

I'm also glad you brought up the Tri-State Area, because there have been numerous proposals (past and recent) to split up New York state because of how disparate its regions are.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...appl/?page=all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_New_York

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...osals#New_York

Quote:
Originally Posted by haljackey View Post
The mege between Manitoba and Northern Ontario discussed here made me think of this:



22 Minutes Depicts Rob Ford's Canada
http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comme..._fords_canada/

That's hilarious.
__________________
Franky: Ajldub, name calling is what they do when good arguments can't be found - don't sink to their level. Claiming the thread is "boring" is also a way to try to discredit a thread that doesn't match their particular bias.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 11:27 PM
ScreamingViking's Avatar
ScreamingViking ScreamingViking is offline
Ham-burgher
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 6,466
I'm on the fence about this.

I think I understand the issues of the north, regarding lack of interest from Queen's Park unless there is something with big potential there like the Ring of Fire (which has its own complexities but if it's that important, get on with it!). I've spent a lot of time up north, mainly when I was younger, but it's definitely a different world from the southern part of the province. I can't say what it's like to live it, but I think I get it.

At the same time, a new Northern Ontario province will face stiff challenges, mainly economically. Separation would give it the autonomy many desire, but it would also lose some of the clout that comes with being part of Canada's largest province (though many would argue Ontario's clout has been in decline, particularly with the current federal government). If the economy of the south improves, would that not benefit the north as well? Is it better to be a small fish in the Ontario pond, or in the larger Canadian one?

How about some kind of hybrid? More northern autonomy over decision making, budgeting, and public services, while maintaining formal ties within a single province? In terms of transportation budgeting, we do have a southern plan and a northern. There's a ministry with focus on the north. Could those kinds of things be improved/broadened/expanded within the context of Ontario's governance?

I'm from Hamilton and have spent most of my life there or in the metro area, so I understand the Toronto-centric-Ontario perspective quite well even though there's now an "H" after the "GT". But I also understand how important Toronto and the Greater Golden Horseshoe are to Ontario's economy, and while the ties to the north are not as evident as those within the GGH I guess I fear there may be negatives that would impact an independent Northern Ontario.

I don't know... I'm just throwing some thoughts out there for discussion.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 12:47 AM
Mister F Mister F is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by S-Man View Post
There's this thing called the Trans Canada Highway. It connects the west and the prairies to the east and the maritimes - and Toronto!, and it runs through northern Ontario. And, except for a short stretch near Sudbury and the Sault, it's terrible! Hundreds of miles of a two-lane road with no shoulder in the middle of the woods. Frequent delays from road accidents and maintenance. Few amenities.
Just to play devil's advocate, northern Ontario gets much, much more highway spending per capita than southern. You might feel that the Trans-Canada is inadequate and maybe it is, but a four lane highway through a region as vast and sparsely populated as northern Ontario is essentially unheard of worldwide. Don't forget that the GTA subsidizes the rural areas of the province, as does any major city.

Torontonians can rightly claim to be ignored too - it has a pathetic subway system for its size, the worst traffic on the continent, and a chronically underfunded municipal government. People in Toronto want to be their own province for the opposite reason than some of you want it: because it would reduce how much GTA money gets spent elsewhere.

The grass is always greener, as they say.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 12:57 AM
1overcosc's Avatar
1overcosc 1overcosc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 11,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
There are several countries out there with cities as provinces/states like Germany (Berlin, Hamburg) and Russia (Moscow, St. Petersburg), or countries with their capital as a federal territory/district (Australia, India, Mexico, USA). Could be models for GTA/Ottawa. I think that is part of a larger conversation about the roles of cities in Canada and would be part of a new constitution rather trying to do something under the current one.

For the present I think creating a written Ontario constitution that included devolution to large autonomous regions would be the way to go, similar to what 1overcosc said. Canada is one of the few federal nations with few written provincial/state constitutions (BC has one, not sure if there are others). The constitution could give certain taxing powers and legislative powers to the region and remove the provincial role in that area. I think it should be part of a constitution so it can't just be changed from government to government, you'd need some kind of amending formula like a referendum.

The province would keep powers over many regulatory areas and have harmonization of certain areas, so that it's easy to move from London to Toronto without needing a new drivers licence, or for a business to open up in Ottawa and North Bay... but the regions would have legislative, taxing, and spending powers in many new areas. For example, the province would be in charge of the rules of the road, but the highways would be owned, funded and operated by the regions. Employment law would be province-wide but each region could set their own minimum wage, etc
Thank you waterloowarrior. You put my idea into something that actually sounds like a foundation for policy. I think this is what Ontario needs. It's achievable, practical, and a solution to Ontario's regional issues.

Going based on swimmer_spe's proposed 7 subprovinces (modified slightly based on my own thoughts) I drew this map:


Here's a close up on southern Ontario:


-Ottawa/Capital subprovince (RED) includes Ottawa, western third of Prescott-Russell (geographic county of Russell), and the municipalities of North Grenville, Beckwith, Carleton Place, Mississippi Mills, Arnprior, and McNab/Braeside. This accurately captures all of Ottawa's exurbs and leaves the truly rural areas outside it. Could serve as a strong foundation to keep Ottawa's exurban influence from spilling beyond that border.

-Eastern Ontario subprovince (PINK), covers the remaining (non-Capital subprovince) areas of SDG, LG, Lanark, Renfrew counties, and all the counties eastwards to and including Northumberland & Peterborough. Predominately rural with Kingston as the only real city.

-Central Ontario subprovince (BLUE): Muskoka, most of Parry Sound District, Haliburton, Kawartha Lakes, Simcoe, plus Brock Township in Durham region (this township is WAY too rural and isolated from Toronto to be part of the GTA province--it really shouldn't be in Durham to begin with...) Very rural, mostly cottage country, Barrie the only real city. Would likely have tourism as its main industry. Also a very socially conservative area.

-GTHA subprovince (GREEN): Toronto, Hamilton, Halton, Peel, York, Durham-minus-Brock. A city-state with great potential to become a highly intensified urban region

-SW Ontario subprovince (ORANGE): Grey, Dufferin, Wellington, Waterloo, Brant, Niagara and everything westward. Probably the most viable of the southern subprovinces, in the sense that it would include a healthy mix of urban and rural, with a diverse economy.

-NE subprovince (beige): part of Parry Sound district, and all the NE districts, plus a small section of Kenora district (which oddly enough, literally extends from MB border to James Bay...)

-NW subprovince (purple): most of Kenora district, plus Rainy River & Thunder Bay districts

The biggest problem I see with this setup is Kingston. In many ways (culturally, socially, economically, etc.) Kingston is very much an island from its surrounding area. Politically it's very progressive, whereas the rest of the Eastern Ontario-sans-Ottawa is one of the most right-wing places in Canada.

I think there's actually some merit to having Kingston completely on its own as the 8th subprovince, all to itself. It's a truly unique situation. The Southwestern province also has cities that are much more progressive than the surrounding countryside, but there's multiple ones--Kitchener, London, Windsor, Niagara, etc. Whereas Kingston is really all on its own. Barring that, Kingston should be a 'special municipality' with greater autonomy but still within the Eastern subprovince.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 1:26 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Thank you waterloowarrior. You put my idea into something that actually sounds like a foundation for policy. I think this is what Ontario needs. It's achievable, practical, and a solution to Ontario's regional issues.

Going based on swimmer_spe's proposed 7 subprovinces (modified slightly based on my own thoughts) I drew this map:


Here's a close up on southern Ontario:


-Ottawa/Capital subprovince (RED) includes Ottawa, western third of Prescott-Russell (geographic county of Russell), and the municipalities of North Grenville, Beckwith, Carleton Place, Mississippi Mills, Arnprior, and McNab/Braeside. This accurately captures all of Ottawa's exurbs and leaves the truly rural areas outside it. Could serve as a strong foundation to keep Ottawa's exurban influence from spilling beyond that border.

-Eastern Ontario subprovince (PINK), covers the remaining (non-Capital subprovince) areas of SDG, LG, Lanark, Renfrew counties, and all the counties eastwards to and including Northumberland & Peterborough. Predominately rural with Kingston as the only real city.

-Central Ontario subprovince (BLUE): Muskoka, most of Parry Sound District, Haliburton, Kawartha Lakes, Simcoe, plus Brock Township in Durham region (this township is WAY too rural and isolated from Toronto to be part of the GTA province--it really shouldn't be in Durham to begin with...) Very rural, mostly cottage country, Barrie the only real city. Would likely have tourism as its main industry. Also a very socially conservative area.

-GTHA subprovince (GREEN): Toronto, Hamilton, Halton, Peel, York, Durham-minus-Brock. A city-state with great potential to become a highly intensified urban region

-SW Ontario subprovince (ORANGE): Grey, Dufferin, Wellington, Waterloo, Brant, Niagara and everything westward. Probably the most viable of the southern subprovinces, in the sense that it would include a healthy mix of urban and rural, with a diverse economy.

-NE subprovince (beige): part of Parry Sound district, and all the NE districts, plus a small section of Kenora district (which oddly enough, literally extends from MB border to James Bay...)

-NW subprovince (purple): most of Kenora district, plus Rainy River & Thunder Bay districts

The biggest problem I see with this setup is Kingston. In many ways (culturally, socially, economically, etc.) Kingston is very much an island from its surrounding area. Politically it's very progressive, whereas the rest of the Eastern Ontario-sans-Ottawa is one of the most right-wing places in Canada.

I think there's actually some merit to having Kingston completely on its own as the 8th subprovince, all to itself. It's a truly unique situation. The Southwestern province also has cities that are much more progressive than the surrounding countryside, but there's multiple ones--Kitchener, London, Windsor, Niagara, etc. Whereas Kingston is really all on its own. Barring that, Kingston should be a 'special municipality' with greater autonomy but still within the Eastern subprovince.
The central subprovince should be eliminated.

The GTHA should be expanded to cover the entire Greater Golden Horseshoe, with perhaps a two-ring system (urban core, remainder), as administered by the Places to Grow Act. The above proposal would guarantee urban sprawl at the edges due to close distance to Toronto and the more conservative regions would take advantage of lower taxes and less regulations.

The Southwest would be cut back to start at Stratford and Woodstock, and extend west from there.

Muskoka and Parry Sound belong in the Northeast, and by default Haliburton as well.

The East should start farther east, at Hastings and Renfrew.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 3:10 AM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 11,527
I've got a great idea.

This new make up of the province would contain a province running from Detroit to the Ottawa river, and from the existing Manitoba border to the St. Lawrence river. I would name it after a prominent lake in the area, "Ontario". It would hold 14 million people and would be the most influential in the country, and would in general be the best setup moving forward.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 3:19 AM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 10,659
First of all, when dividing up Ontario you have to understand that Ottawa/Gatineau will NEVER, EVER, EVER be allowed to form a NCR like Australia's ACT. The reason is that Gatineau is primarily a federalist area and when the next {as there is always a next} referendum comes along, those Non Gatineau votes will be essential. Ottawa will NEVER allow an NCR, at least not one that includes any part of Quebec.

The problem with the North leaving is that it leaves the rest of the provinces even more alienated as Toronto takes up an even larger percentage of the population as it does now. It might be good for the North {although what city they would make the capitol would be a real battle}, it would be more bad news for the non-GTA Ontario.

If the province dissolves then it must do so into 4 parts.......GTA/SW/North/East with the capitols of the first three fairly obvious. Toronto, London, and Kingston as Ottawa cannot be a national and provincial capitol. What the North does with it's capitol is anybody's guess.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 3:35 AM
ue ue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,480
I don't know. Northern Ontario isn't that populated enough that the percentage of Ontario's population in the GTA would rise that substantially without it. Toronto already seems to act like Northern Ontario doesn't exist, anyways.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 3:39 AM
ue ue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix View Post
That does clear things up a bit, yes.

I know there are some in Northern Ontario who feel that the areas west and north of Thunder Bay should become a part of Manitoba, but it seems to be a passing statement with little to no stock given into it. I support a province of Northern Ontario that can better develop its resources and economy, and have greater control over its infrastructure.

As for splitting Eastern Ontario, I'm more against that than anything else. It would be very small and have a small population. It would be maybe 1.5 million inhabitants, and its economy would centre around Ottawa, agriculture, and tourism and that's about it.

Plus, if Ottawa was a federally administered territory (like DC and Canberra), that opens a whole new can of worms and as we've seen with the current government, they don't care about this city.

It's interesting that you bring up London because it's not a part of any English county or parish. It's literally it's own city-state within England. The City and the "Greater London" regional authority have the exact same boundaries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London

I'm also glad you brought up the Tri-State Area, because there have been numerous proposals (past and recent) to split up New York state because of how disparate its regions are.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...appl/?page=all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_New_York

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...osals#New_York
Well, a "CCT" wouldn't have to be created under the Harper government today. It could be created under a future government that is more pro-Ottawa.

Anyways, seeing Ontario hypothetically split seven ways just seems redundant and a bureaucratic nightmare. I also think it would open up a huge can of worms across the country. Should Saskatchewan split in half? Should BC be split into Vancouver Island, SW BC, the Okanagan, NW BC and then merge the BC Peace with AB Peace to create a new province there? And then in Alberta, should we give Southern Alberta and NE Alberta independence from the Calgary-Edmonton corridor? Should Quebec split up a few different ways too? Or what about New Brunswick?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 2:31 PM
Jamaican-Phoenix's Avatar
Jamaican-Phoenix Jamaican-Phoenix is offline
R2-D2's army of death
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Downtown Ottawa
Posts: 3,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by ue View Post
Anyways, seeing Ontario hypothetically split seven ways just seems redundant and a bureaucratic nightmare. I also think it would open up a huge can of worms across the country. Should Saskatchewan split in half? Should BC be split into Vancouver Island, SW BC, the Okanagan, NW BC and then merge the BC Peace with AB Peace to create a new province there? And then in Alberta, should we give Southern Alberta and NE Alberta independence from the Calgary-Edmonton corridor? Should Quebec split up a few different ways too? Or what about New Brunswick?
Except only one person has argued for the split to be made six or seven ways; I myself advocate only three: Northern Ontario, Golden Horseshoe, rump remainder.

And no, it doesn't open a huge can of worms for some time. There's no reason or desire to split Saskatchewan in half. Vancouver Island WAS its own separate colony once upon a time. As for the rest of BC, there's only a tiny part of that province that wants to separate from BC and join Alberta. As for Quebec, yeah, some want Montreal Island to be its own city-state, and the people of the Saguenay want to be independent from Quebec, but so what?

You're basically constructing a bunch of fearful hypothetical strawmen that has no basis in reality. If the people demand it, then the people should get it, or at the very least be listened to. That's how a democracy is supposed to work.

Is change really such a bad thing?
__________________
Franky: Ajldub, name calling is what they do when good arguments can't be found - don't sink to their level. Claiming the thread is "boring" is also a way to try to discredit a thread that doesn't match their particular bias.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 6:10 PM
1overcosc's Avatar
1overcosc 1overcosc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 11,452
Keep in mind I'm not advocating for Ontario to be divided into 7 new provinces. I'm calling for Ontario to have 7 legally defined regions each with their own elected regional government, with power split between Queen's Park & the regional legislatures. Basically my idea is to add a new layer of government between provincial and municipal, with the new layer taking on some responsibilites from both. Ontario would still exist.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 6:21 PM
HomeInMyShoes's Avatar
HomeInMyShoes HomeInMyShoes is offline
arf
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: File 13
Posts: 13,984
Because what everyone needs is another level of government. Ugh. I'd vote no to that.
__________________

-- “We heal each other with kindness, gentleness and respect.” -- Richard Wagamese
-- “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” -- Dr. Seuss
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 8:11 PM
lio45 lio45 is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 42,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix View Post
...and the people of the Saguenay want to be independent from Quebec, but so what?
... what? Not at all, FYI.

(Not that it's not off-topic, anyway.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:10 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.