Tim Hortons Field | 40m | ? | Complete

[markbarbera]

Really, we are worrying about lost hotel revenue? Exactly how much hotel revenue is generated from a visiting team's overnight stay for ten CFL home games anyway? 40 rooms at 100 a night for ten nights equals a whopping $40,000 in annual spinoff revenue. Wow that's quite a bang for the $100 mil this city's going to end up shelling out towards this mistake.

The Harbour West location is not near any kind of proper road access, does not allow for the amount of parking the Ticat organization wants in the stadium, it's in a lowland completely hedged in by the CN freight yards to the north and west, and by single family residences to the south and east. And it is not a downtown stadium.

Thank God the private sector is doing the kind of hard thinking the politicians should have been doing a year ago.

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by realcity

I'm sorry if I support private investment in Hamilton. We see very little of it so if there is going to be a hotel built there then great.

I'll tell you who will clean up the area even if the stadium is not built there. Us, Hamilton. the property is worth 1-2 million $ but do you think the owner will pay $37 for clean up on land worth 2$ million? They will go into tax default and the land will become Hamilton's anyway. Then we're still stuck with the $37 million clean up.

okay there's more than herbal teas, but they will still drive. No one takes the bus to Ivor Wynne now. And it hasn't improved the local area at all... just like Flar said. A CFL team and a stadium like this is a regional attraction, from Oakville to Niagara, so I think it does need to cater to a regional catchment.

Plenty of people take the bus to Ivor Wynne, including myself.

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Really, we are worrying about lost hotel revenue? Exactly how much hotel revenue is generated from a visiting team's overnight stay for ten CFL home games anyway? 40 rooms at 100 a night for ten nights equals a whopping $40,000 in annual spinoff revenue. Wow that's quite a bang for the $100 mil this city's going to end up shelling out towards this mistake.

The Harbour West location is not near any kind of proper road access, does not allow for the amount of parking the Ticat organization wants in the stadium, it's in a lowland completely hedged in by the CN freight yards to the north and west, and by single family residences to the south and east. And it is not a downtown stadium.

Thank God the private sector is doing the kind of hard thinking the politicians should have been doing a year ago.

Certainly where the teams stay should not be the only reason, but it is an example of a spinoff benefit having the stadium at least somewhere near downtown, rather than as far as way as possible in Confederation Park. You can define it as not downtown, but for me it isn't binary, red text or not.

[realcity]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Really, we are worrying about lost hotel revenue? Exactly how much hotel revenue is generated from a visiting team's overnight stay for ten CFL home games anyway? 40 rooms at 100 a night for ten nights equals a whopping $40,000 in annual spinoff revenue. Wow that's quite a bang for the $100 mil this city's going to end up shelling out towards this mistake.

The Harbour West location is not near any kind of proper road access, does not allow for the amount of parking the Ticat organization wants in the stadium, it's in a lowland completely hedged in by the CN freight yards to the north and west, and by single family residences to the south and east. And it is not a downtown stadium.

Thank God the private sector is doing the kind of hard thinking the politicians should have been doing a year ago.

I agree. This is not a downtown stadium. John and Wilson yes. And it's barely waterfront. It leaves no room for spinoff development as pointed out the rail yards and residential areas surrounding it. Not too mention some god awful ugliness on the west side of Caroline.

------------

go carts, batting cages and ice cream do help pay for the HCA's bills, but what is their mandate? Why not build a HCA Hotel or HCA Convention Hall, HCA Wedding photography all those things would help pay the bills too. Do the business you know.


I don't care what business person is behind some second sober thinking. It's at least raised the conversation about the locations. Look how brilliant our council was with creating a short list between the airport and a residential, industrial land locked, in accessible location at the end of the bay. There is no way this will help downtown, other then putting it downtown.

[realcity]

okay I didn't mean "NO ONE" takes the bus. exaggeration is so difficult to grasp.

[realcity]

So who will still be stuck cleaning up the land if the stadium is built somewhere else?

[realcity]

Originally Posted by geoff's two cents

Fifty years, folks. That's a long time to have a stadium in the middle of an industrial strip (unless the city eventually loses all of the industrial jobs there). It would also, as one commentator noted, feature Hamilton taxpayers subsidizing the profits of Burlington hotels. The private interests, here have advertising and naming rights in mind - much more so than community benefits, which would be dismal at best, or simply accrue elsewhere.

As for the beach pictures you provided, realcity, both are much closer to downtown than Hamilton's Centennial/QEW location would be, Baltimore's baseball stadium is smack downtown, and Portland's Rose Garden is an awful lot closer to their downtown (for a much larger city) than Hamilton's would be.

I recognize the difficulties, however, inherent in attracting private sponsorship to a location that isn't on the freeways - where private businesses know most Hamiltonians are much more comfortable. It's a shame (and something worth thinking about) that private sector support cannot be mobilized in favor of the long-term best interests of the city (when Hamilton will no doubt be very different, or face further decay), but must rely on relatively short-term returns on their investment.

Then build it downtown. Downtown has always been my first choice. Right smack downtown.

[geoff's two cents]

This might be an utter impossibility, but I agree with you here. I'm glad you and I can at least agree on something! It's a tad late in the game to be saying this, but I wish a proposed site between Main and King closer to downtown were on the table - perhaps in the neighborhood of Hess Village. This would satisfy the private sector, I'm sure.

[SteelTown]

Hamilton City Council has already selected the site for the stadium. So talk all you want you are just waiting air and finger muscles typing it up.

[SteelTown]

City says Pan Am Games activity is sparking interest around proposed site

BY EMMA REILLY

The Pan Am Games are contributing to a flurry of interest in real estate in the city’s core.

Ron Marini, Hamilton’s director of downtown renewal, says he’s been receiving a higher than usual number of inquiries into properties downtown and in the waterfront area. He attributes much of the interest to the Pan Am Games.

“We’re seeing people interested in now buying properties,” Marini said. “This is very recent.”

The majority of the inquiries have been centred around Bay Street, the main artery leading to the future site of the Pan Am stadium and velodrome at Tiffany and Barton streets. Marini said he couldn’t provide any specifics of the inquiries for privacy reasons.

Though Pan Ams are certainly playing a role in the upswing, Marini said, there are other factors involved.

One of the major drivers is provincial legislation, like Places to Grow, that mandates intensification in urban areas. Developers who would normally look to green space are now being forced to consider vacant properties, parking lots and brownfields instead.

Another element at play is the waning recession. Marini said the projects will likely start firming up when developers feel confident about the rebounding economy.

However, there may be a wrinkle in the boost of interest in downtown.

The west harbour site has been criticized for its high remediation costs and poor visibility which makes it less attractive to private sector investors.

Council members, led by Bernie Morelli, have advocated for a Plan B site in case the west harbour falls through, and several businessmen are examining other sites as potential spaces for the stadium.

However, Marini says the scuttlebutt around the west harbour site doesn’t worry him.

“They’re just rumours,” he said.

[realcity]

There has never been a more un-democratic decision made in the history of this city that I can think of. Go ahead, try to make west harbour work. It won't. It was chosen to fail.

But when the west harbour site doesn't work out then someone needs to answer.

Beware folks: we've already been given the reason why West Harbour won't work... remedial costs $... so don't be surprised when it's built at the airport.

[realcity]

"Places to Grow Act" do I need to repeat myself. I think I stated how much a fail that has been on another thread. We're 5 years in a 25 year plan and have done ZERO in terms of the Act.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by realcity

Well the HCA should be about nature conservation and not operating waterslides, go-carts, batting cages.

Council voted overwhelmingly to ditch Confederation Park as one of four possible stadium sites over a year ago. A Confederation Park hotel also seems to be getting the cold shoulder. The coming remodel of Confederation Park seems to be more nature-focused. In late January, the Stoney Creek News reported:

A preliminary master plan of an updated Confederation Park unveiled Jan. 20 during a public information session at Lakeland Community Centre, includes more green space; closing the go kart facility and replacing it with a naturalized area and trail system; expanding Adventure Village; adding educational areas with more trails and paths; expanding Wild Waterworks; eliminating the camping area; constructing an inn and; building an ice track during winter and a sports field.

And again, the optimal time to impact decision-making is during debate on the issue, not after the decision has been made. Whatever you make of the selection process, the bid has been a while in the making, and the need for a new stadium isn't breaking news -- the Cats' backers and pals have known this was coming for a while. If there was a sensible private sector business model that could make a $150m stadium work, I'm sure the interest would have surfaced well before the city kicked in its $60m (to say nothing of the province's share). Today's "coup news" just accentuates the Mickey Mouse aspects of the project and its future tenants.

[realcity]

okay let's try for the west harbour. but I still don't think it will happen. Read: Plan B. that tells you the airport is the ultimate location. They've already given the excuse why it can't be built at west harbour (remedial costs) even though they decided it. It looks good for votes and the always "awe shucks we tried". just like Mac said about the downtown location. "awe shucks we tried".

PS: I hope I'm wrong

[markbarbera]

Oh, the West Harbour location will be built. It will cost the city nearly double what they are predicting now, and will barely be big enough to house the Ticats. And the so-called spin off for downtown will be zero.

Why are we taking Marini's comments seriously? Inquiries are nothing, let's see him close a deal for a change. Has he ever been right about downtown revitalization? Has any of these so-called enquiries made to him over the years resulted in anything? How many times has Marini been in the news telling us about a deal in the works for the Connaught, or a deal for a downtown Education Centre is on the way, then we find out months later he was just sucking air as usual. Why is it he still has his job?

Twenty years from now the Ticats will be playing out of Burlington and we'll have an empty stadium to tear down on Tiffany. Thanks for nothing, Marini.

[SteelTown]

I think what's going to happen is what happened in Melbourne’s stadium. They built the stadium for the 2006 Commonwealth Games and than after the games spent money to add more seats. They took away the track and field and added seats to create another bowl. Think that alone added 5,000 seats. So that would bring Hamilton's stadium to 20,000, which is the minimum for a CFL stadium.

I would keep the warm up track and field. Put a soccer field in the middle of it and build a bubble over the field. Turn it into a recreational centre.

[highwater]

Originally Posted by geoff's two cents

It's a tad late in the game to be saying this, but I wish a proposed site between Main and King closer to downtown were on the table - perhaps in the neighborhood of Hess Village. This would satisfy the private sector, I'm sure.

I disagree. I think the private sector would hate a downtown site even more than the west harbour. The private sector has made their priorities clear: lots of taxpayer's dollars, highway visibility, highway visibility, parking, highway visibility, more taxpayer's dollars, parking, parking, and highway visibility. These guys are real visionaries.

[realcity]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Oh, the West Harbour location will be built. It will cost the city nearly double what they are predicting now, and will barely be big enough to house the Ticats. And the so-called spin off for downtown will be zero.

Why are we taking Marini's comments seriously? Inquiries are nothing, let's see him close a deal for a change. Has he ever been right about downtown revitalization? Has any of these so-called enquiries made to him over the years resulted in anything? How many times has Marini been in the news telling us about a deal in the works for the Connaught, or a deal for a downtown Education Centre is on the way, then we find out months later he was just sucking air as usual. Why is it he still has his job?

Twenty years from now the Ticats will be playing out of Burlington and we'll have an empty stadium to tear down on Tiffany. Thanks for nothing, Marini.

I'm so glad someone said this. It needed to be said.

[realcity]

Bratina wants Confederation Park back as stadium site alternative
March 12, 2010
JOHN KERNAGHAN
THE HAMILTON SPECTATOR
(Mar 12, 2010)
Confederation Park should be on the Plan B list of Pan Am stadium options, Councillor Bob Bratina says.

He believes only growing pressure from the public to get the east-end lakeside site back on the table could produce a council turnaround.

The park was removed from consideration early in 2009 before city council identified the west harbour site as its preferred location.

Bratina, a strong opponent of that Bay and Barton streets site, believes Confederation Park should be reconsidered because the city owns the land and the park operator lost $400,000 last year.

But he added a formal site evaluation may prove it is not suitable.

City staff say it might not be wide enough due to necessary setbacks from the Queen Elizabeth Way.

Councillor Chad Collins, who moved the park location be removed as a stadium option, was not available to comment yesterday.

A loose-knit group of city businessmen keen on having a Plan B scheme ready if the west harbour fails believes Confederation Park in combination with land on the other side of the QEW and connected by a pedestrian bridge could be a good option.

That is the former Waxman scrapyard on Centennial Parkway near the QEW now owned by developer SmartCentres. A plan for the 15-hectare site is being appealed to the Ontario Municipal Board. This group also identifies the Lafarge Canada Inc. slag facility on Windermere Road near the QEW and the former Studebaker property on Victoria Avenue near Burlington Street as possible locations. Both are currently for sale.

If the west harbour location isn't feasible, the group would propose a large developer take on the job of finding an extra $50 million for a stadium large enough to house the CFL's Hamilton Tiger-Cats.

Just over $100 million in public funds has been committed to a 15,000-seat 2015 stadium, with the city putting up $55 million.

Meantime, support for the west harbour site was bolstered by the Provincial Building and Construction Trades Council of Ontario.

Its business manager, Hamiltonian Patrick Dillon, said in a letter to city council that "cleaning up this brownfield site to create a world-class, multi-purpose facility is the responsible environmental solution for this part of the city, creating 1,750 green jobs."

The west harbour site was selected for that reason and as a city-building project that would connect downtown to the waterfront.

That goal has a general parallel with the jewel of the Vancouver Olympics, the $170-million Richmond Oval.

It, too, was a brownfield site and seen as a key link between downtown Richmond and the Fraser River waterfront.

[hamiltonguy]

Originally Posted by realcity

QEW/Centennial? I assumed Confed Park. I'm in favour only if it's on the Beach Strip, go cart area etc.

If they mean the south east area/Service Road off the cloverleaf, then that's Foxcroft's land.

Did they say business man?