I keep hearing "Toronto is coming close to Chicago" but I dont see it

[scrapin]

Even with Toronto's massive downtown growth which is incredibly impressive I still think Toronto is a couple decades away from catching up to Chicago, and thats assuming downtown Chicago doesnt grow much...which I doubt. Theres no shame in being number 3 in USA/Canada.

[Ashok]

awww - so cute, you are being openly insecure. There there, here is a hug from the Canadian forumers. *Hugs*

[manny_santos]

Chicago to me is a far more dangerous version of Toronto. Though I do like Chicago.

[hipster duck]

Toronto and Chicago are very different cities: their reasons for being, their histories, what role they play in their respective countries, how they look, how they feel, the kind of people that are attracted to each, etc.

[SkahHigh]

Going to Chicago thursday for the first time, I'm excited!

I think Toronto is definitely a North American metropolis now, but it's still not as big as Chicago. Unless Toronto can pop up a few 300m towers and a 400m tower in the skyline...

Skyscrapers aside, Chicago is beautiful but also has it's really ugly sides. I'd rather live in Toronto if I had to choose, so Toronto shouldn't aspire to become Chicago, but rather to become an even bigger Toronto and make it's own name.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Chicago to me is a far more dangerous version of Toronto. Though I do like Chicago.

Meh, the danger is largely confined to certain neighborhoods and largely involves people who know each other and gang members.

It's horrible that such a thing would exist, but if you moved to Chicago, you can have a great standard of living and live with a peace of mind as long as you're not walking around at 3AM in certain neighborhoods in the South Side while showing off your great smartphone or whatever.

Point is that for the average person going there... the likelihood of being subject to danger is extremely low.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

Meh, the danger is largely confined to certain neighborhoods and largely involves people who know each other and gang members.

It's horrible that such a thing would exist, but if you moved to Chicago, you can have a great standard of living and live with a peace of mind as long as you're not walking around at 3AM in certain neighborhoods in the South Side while showing off your great smartphone or whatever.

Point is that for the average person going there... the likelihood of being subject to danger is extremely low.

This is true. But being an American city, you are still subject to issues that hopefully we never will have to worry about in Canadian cities.

While most of the danger is confined to some neighborhoods, there have been issues in the nice areas. The swarming and attacks on Michigan Ave of shoppers, the beating up of people coming out of gay bars on the north side, school issues, and other concerns.

This is not just a Chicago thing, but happens in most American cities.

[metalpressed]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

This is true. But being an American city, you are still subject to issues that hopefully we never will have to worry about in Canadian cities.

While most of the danger is confined to some neighborhoods, there have been issues in the nice areas. The swarming and attacks on Michigan Ave of shoppers, the beating up of people coming out of gay bars on the north side, school issues, and other concerns.

This is not just a Chicago thing, but happens in most American cities.

Oh cut out this nonsense. What?! "The swarming and attacking of Michigan avenue shoppers"? Are you mentally ill?

You lose the argument about Chicago being somehow particularly horrible, and then make an even more absurd assertion that Chicago is bad just because it's American, revealing your implicit bias when the foremost way you position your entire post is: "but being an American city..." as if American cities are specifically horrible.

Which we know you're not reliable to have conversations like this, because foreigners will never admit America is better than their own country even when it's winning all the time.

So you tell desperate, nonsense stories about people being attacked coming out of gay bars or Michigan avenue shoppers being attacked to legitimize your stupid, specific anti-American cities BS. Go home.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Chicago to me is a far more dangerous version of Toronto. Though I do like Chicago.

Hey, I find your remark interesting. What do you mean by more "dangerous?"

From what I see of the proposed buildings in Toronto, such as the creations in the Theatre District, I'm blown away. (Not hard to do; I'm from Vancouver).

These, and others such as at SW Yonge and Bloor put Toronto over Chicago in height. But how nice-looking would they be?

I've been to both, and Chicago for me has a certain elegance and continuity to it that I do not find in Toronto. Chicago also has a consistent density in the downtown core,
with many sleek, smart, daring buildings, culmintaing in a "logical" sense with John Hancock, and ultimately the Sears Tower.

Toronto, at present, has dramatic vertical height (look at it in profile as well as the traditional view from the islands! Whoa!!), and an elegant line going down central Bloor, but, due to its lakeshore geography,
does not have, as does Chicago, Grant Park on its lakeshore, nor Michigan Avenue, heading up Lakeshore, with an almost Rio-esque look to it.

Toronto has treated its lakeshore entirely differently, although that enlarges onto another topic.
In buildings, Toronto ranges (IMO) from the imaginatively elegant (RBP), to impressively tall (Scotia, First Canadian PL, etc etc) but has a total look and feel than chicago.
The two dontowns feel and look different, but somehow Chicago hits my adrenaline more, although there are aspects of Toronto - like going down University Avenue - that I wouldn't trade for the world!


Anyway, that's roughly my brief take on the two downtowns. Any futher reply most welcome. Thank You
Anyway, you said "dangerous". I'd love to discuss that further, if that's ok.

[scrapin]

Originally Posted by Ashok

awww - so cute, you are being openly insecure. There there, here is a hug from the Canadian forumers. *Hugs*

I'm from Toronto, and my opinion is no bias, you are clearly responding with emotion and not with reason, good day.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by scrapin

Even with Toronto's massive downtown growth which is incredibly impressive I still think Toronto is a couple decades away from catching up to Chicago, and thats assuming downtown Chicago doesnt grow much...which I doubt. Theres no shame in being number 3 in USA/Canada.

Catching up in which way?

Both cities are great. But after you spend time in both cities, you notice that Toronto, including the central downtown area, is still much healthier than Chicago, including the downtown area of Chicago.

Chicago has outstanding architecture, which Toronto could sure learn from. But a side from that, I don't know if there is much catching up to do.

Again both cities have great things. But many people tend to hang out on Michigan Ave in Chicago, and forget about all the issues facing the city in other neighborhoods. Not to mention the core loop area which still is struggling to become as vibrant as it once was.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

Again both cities have great things. But many people tend to hang out on Michigan Ave in Chicago, and forget about all the issues facing the city in other neighborhoods. Not to mention the core loop area which still is struggling to become as vibrant as it once was.

Even Milwaukee Ave has lots of gaps, vacant storefronts and suburban looking strip malls not that far from the core. While I love that part of the city, it's not as consistently vibrant as Queen or even Bloor.

As others have mentioned though, Chicago isn't quite as similar to Toronto as it sometimes gets portrayed. The layout and vernacular of both cities are quite different, and each has its pros and cons.

Edit: was reading quickly and misread Michigan for Milwaukee. These don't apply to Michigan, which is gorgeous!

[Deepstar]

I see quite a bit of similarities between Toronto and Chicago. Chicago has more of the large office buildings while Toronto has more residential towers. I don't think it's a stretch at all comparing the skylines. The two cities at street level are different.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by Deepstar

I see quite a bit of similarities between Toronto and Chicago. Chicago has more of the large office buildings while Toronto has more residential towers. I don't think it's a stretch at all comparing the skylines. The two cities at street level are different.

Toronto has high-rises everywhere including the suburbs. Where Chicago's high-rises are mostly confined to the downtown area and the north side lakeshore north of downtown.

[WhipperSnapper]

The two cities are so different which is why I believe these threads always lead to statistics on the number of towers. Toronto has made major inroads towards catching up to Chicago in the 300 to 500 range. Should real estate trends continue, it is within the realm of possibilites that Toronto will catch and possibly surpass in the 500+ range in decades time. At such a point, the conversation will be a lot more entertaining along the same vein as New York vs Hong Kong.

[metalpressed]

Originally Posted by niwell

Even Milwaukee Ave has lots of gaps, vacant storefronts and suburban looking strip malls not that far from the core. While I love that part of the city, it's not as consistently vibrant as Queen or even Bloor.

As others have mentioned though, Chicago isn't quite as similar to Toronto as it sometimes gets portrayed. The layout and vernacular of both cities are quite different, and each has its pros and cons.

Edit: was reading quickly and misread Michigan for Milwaukee. These don't apply to Michigan, which is gorgeous!

Are you kidding me? Bloor is a main shopping thoroughfare. It compares to Michigan avenue, which you know it pales in comparison to.

Toronto is an ugly city, btw.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by metalpressed

Are you kidding me? Bloor is a main shopping thoroughfare. It compares to Michigan avenue, which you know it pales in comparison to.

Toronto is an ugly city, btw.

A few snaps I took of this 'ugly' city on the weekend.

_DSC0237 by harley613, on Flickr

20210530_201724 by harley613, on Flickr

20210530_143847~2 by harley613, on Flickr

Photo_6554129_DJI_529_pano_12018985_0_2021530194134_photo_pano by harley613, on Flickr

[Cyro]

Historical Note: Winnipeg was once called the "Chicago of the North". really...


Can I start a Comparison thread..Winnipeg similiar to Chicago way back when...?

[Mikey563]

Toronto will never be Chicago of Canada at all, everything between 2 cities are much different. Chicago is much older city than Toronto. I rather choose Toronto over Chicago for many different reasons.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Mikey563

Chicago is much older city than Toronto.

Is this true? It would probably be more accurate to say that Chicago got started a little later (~1850) but grew much more quickly for a while.

I've always found this comparison a little odd because the two cities don't seem like they compete very directly. One is the primary business centre for Canada and the other other plays a similar role for the Midwestern US. Economic competition aside, the question of which place is better to live in or visit is more a matter of taste.

It is kind of interesting though that the Chicago-Toronto thing feels real enough that people are making threads about it now. Chicagoans who entertain this comparison are implicitly accepting a change in relative stature between the two cities compared to where they were a few decades ago.