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  #1021  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by proghousehead View Post
99% of the victims of Islamic terrorism are - wait for it - Muslim (most innocent). Quite similar to how 99% of the victims of gang violence are - wait for it - gang members.
If one includes Muslim terrorism in the Middle East, then, yes. But obviously people in the US are not going to be victims of terrorism taking place in the Middle East, unless one has devised a way to be simultaneously in Baghdad and Chicago at the same time. Outside of the Middle East, Muslims are clearly going to be a minority of victims of Muslim terrorism.
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  #1022  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 7:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hunser View Post
I'm no expert but I guess it has to do with the fact that gang members usually don't rat out? It's like a small, parallel universe in those hoods where retaliation has become some kind of "daily routine".
...
Except the last time murder counts were so high in Chicago, the CPD's closure rate was actually ABOVE the national average - CPD was closing roughly 80% of all murders then, and they were gangland killings then, too.
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  #1023  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
It's ironic how someone can post about Trump being "Hitler-Lite" a little over a month ago, then make a post just like this. Your post is far worse than anything Trump has said and you're almost suggesting a genocide.
I appreciate you remembering my posts better than I do; I don't doubt I called Trump Hitler-lite and I stand by it.

Having to use "almost" and "suggesting" in the same sentence usually means the person isn't close to what you're saying. No where did I mention anything related to genocide, so don't even try that.

I was responding to the question of whether the problem will "burn out"--i.e., will all gang bangers eventually kill each other.

I answered with facts, stating that reproduction of gangsters occurs at far greater rates than deaths. I'm a liberal democrat, but more so because I like facts and I don't hesitate to use them, even if those facts may be offensive--we cannot choose them, they simply are. The fact is, easily verifiable reproductive rates far exceed death by shooting, so the problem will not "burn itself out."

Regarding draconian government intervention, I do believe in millions of dollars more for social programs and education, but for the existing killers who cannot be un-brainwashed from the terrorist ideologies they have, the national guard is needed along with mass arrests. Yes, it will be dystopian, the question, how much more than it already is?

Until then, liberals (many of my friends) will annoyingly talk and write blogs about systemic racism and police brutality, while these terrorists kill 10 a day... all the while the vast, vast majority of black people, innocent hard working folks, will remain hostage under gang rule.


Final count for Chicago, 2016 - my guess is 762, if you count past midnight on new year's eve, then 770.
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  #1024  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 8:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hunser View Post
I'm no expert but I guess it has to do with the fact that gang members usually don't rat out? It's like a small, parallel universe in those hoods where retaliation has become some kind of "daily routine".

Btw if anyone is wondering as to why I'm interested in Chicago lately: I have a cousin (female, 15) who is now an exchange student in Chicago (for 1 year). That's why I'm worried. I told her to choose NYC, but she wouldn't listen. Even my GF tried to convince her, but no luck. Her father is originally from NYC, which makes it even more ridiculous. I just hope she stays safe with her host family ...
Unless her host family runs a crackhouse, she will be ok.
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  #1025  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 8:12 PM
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Originally Posted by chiphile View Post
This is what people think will happen but it won't, because the bastard production rate far exceeds the gang on gang hit rate. Each of these guys has at least 2 kids (two future murderers) by two different women by age 21. If they live until 30, it's usually 3 or 4, so even if one gets killed, he has left at least 2-3 more to replace him. It's a virus.

The political reality makes it worse. In describing the situation as I have described above, you get called racist and the conversation stops. The fact is, a barbaric and depraved culture has taken root, and a government solution to a barbaric, terrorist culture is going to be draconian on won't survive the political process.
Please just fucking stop, the government is the reason for this problem in the first place. You can't put in place policies that segregate and deny opportunity to black men and expect them to succeed. What you have today is a direct result of people who think the way you do.
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  #1026  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by UPChicago View Post
Please just fucking stop, the government is the reason for this problem in the first place. You can't put in place policies that segregate and deny opportunity to black men and expect them to succeed. What you have today is a direct result of people who think the way you do.

Government jim crow, red lining, mass incarceration, police brutality, systemic racism, poor education funding (good enough list for you?) are all a root cause of the problem. These causes need to be addressed/eliminated, but even if they are, they won't eradicate the gang culture which came about from these things, which is now self-sustaining and kills based off of twitter insults, not lack of opportunity or even competition for drug turf. And to say that a 90%+ out of wedlock birth rate is a direct result of my thinking is asinine, laughable, and doesn't warrant further response.

Someone has heart disease, and you're bitching about how that person should have eaten right and stayed away from sugar/fat. Even if you take away the sugar and fat (racist gov't policies if you can't follow the analogy), you still need the heart surgery--a deeply invasive and painful, but lifesaving, process.

Are you capable of understanding that two things are needed at once? and that two things can, in fact, happen at once? We need to reverse the government policies, but also institute socialization programs that target gang mentality, lack of family planning, etc.

Anyway, doesn't matter to you, as long as you get to point the finger at someone. I sincerely believe my approach would save lives. Do you have an alternate solution besides a list of grievances from history?
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  #1027  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by chiphile View Post
I appreciate you remembering my posts better than I do; I don't doubt I called Trump Hitler-lite and I stand by it.

Having to use "almost" and "suggesting" in the same sentence usually means the person isn't close to what you're saying. No where did I mention anything related to genocide, so don't even try that.

I was responding to the question of whether the problem will "burn out"--i.e., will all gang bangers eventually kill each other.

I answered with facts, stating that reproduction of gangsters occurs at far greater rates than deaths. I'm a liberal democrat, but more so because I like facts and I don't hesitate to use them, even if those facts may be offensive--we cannot choose them, they simply are. The fact is, easily verifiable reproductive rates far exceed death by shooting, so the problem will not "burn itself out."

Regarding draconian government intervention, I do believe in millions of dollars more for social programs and education, but for the existing killers who cannot be un-brainwashed from the terrorist ideologies they have, the national guard is needed along with mass arrests. Yes, it will be dystopian, the question, how much more than it already is?

Until then, liberals (many of my friends) will annoyingly talk and write blogs about systemic racism and police brutality, while these terrorists kill 10 a day... all the while the vast, vast majority of black people, innocent hard working folks, will remain hostage under gang rule.


Final count for Chicago, 2016 - my guess is 762, if you count past midnight on new year's eve, then 770.
You undermine the word "terrorist" by applying it to random gangbangers who shoot each other over drugs or turf.

Yet I'm sure you and other people didn't apply the word "terrorist" when Dylan Roof decided to go to a black church and kill 9 people becaused of racist ideology and to instill fear within the black community.
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  #1028  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by chiphile View Post
Government jim crow, red lining, mass incarceration, police brutality, systemic racism, poor education funding (good enough list for you?) are all a root cause of the problem. These causes need to be addressed/eliminated, but even if they are, they won't eradicate the gang culture which came about from these things, which is now self-sustaining and kills based off of twitter insults, not lack of opportunity or even competition for drug turf. And to say that a 90%+ out of wedlock birth rate is a direct result of my thinking is asinine, laughable, and doesn't warrant further response.

Someone has heart disease, and you're bitching about how that person should have eaten right and stayed away from sugar/fat. Even if you take away the sugar and fat (racist gov't policies if you can't follow the analogy), you still need the heart surgery--a deeply invasive and painful, but lifesaving, process.

Are you capable of understanding that two things are needed at once? and that two things can, in fact, happen at once? We need to reverse the government policies, but also institute socialization programs that target gang mentality, lack of family planning, etc.

Anyway, doesn't matter, I'll be fine, you'll be fine, while mostly innocent bystanders continue being caught in cross fire by these terrorists.
Sadly, I don't think this generation of black men lost to the system and ingrained in gang culture can be saved but I do think correcting the sins of the past can result in better outcomes for more young black men in the future. To play on your analogy, if a drug is found to be linked to cancer you don't bitch and say if only the person hadn't taken the drug, you stop prescribing it.

Suggesting "draconian" measures and mass arrest is more of the same. Let's finally try access and opportunity, how about that?
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  #1029  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post

Yet I'm sure you and other people didn't apply the word "terrorist" when Dylan Roof decided to go to a black church and kill 9 people becaused of racist ideology and to instill fear within the black community.
Dude, you don't know me. MFers here are so annoying. Dylan Roof needs to be sent to Gitmo. Is this thread about Dylan Roof and white supremacist terrorists? Can you stick to the subject?
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  #1030  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 8:44 PM
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Originally Posted by UPChicago View Post
Suggesting "draconian" measures and mass arrest is more of the same. Let's finally try access and opportunity, how about that?
I agree, access and opportunity on a wide scale, to non-bangers. if you own, or did own, a small business, you would hire known bangers who have likely killed? Tell me how far you're willing to walk on that talk. If not, what do you do with existing killers if not arrests?

Mass arrests were also largely linked to the failed war on drugs. that needs to end. but arrests of killers should not end. Not sure why this is controversial. Over and out.
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  #1031  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by chiphile View Post
I agree, access and opportunity on a wide scale, to non-bangers. if you own, or did own, a small business, you would hire known bangers who have likely killed? Tell me how far you're willing to walk on that talk. If not, what do you do with existing killers if not arrests?

Mass arrests were also largely linked to the failed war on drugs. that needs to end. but arrests of killers should not end. Not sure why this is controversial.
I think I agree with you but I will say you need to be more careful with your words.

Yes, murders and violent gang members need to be arrested, no we don't need "draconian" government intervention in the black community, we have already experienced that many times over with massive consequences.

The way you framed it, is as if all children of gang members are destined to become gang members themselves and it doesn't need to be that way. Many people resort to gangs because they feel hopeless because they have no opportunities. So if that is your way of thinking, then yes, you are part of the problem. The depraved gang culture you speak off is the result of housing policies that concentrated poverty, denied families the opportunity to build wealth through home ownership, removed fathers from homes on drug charges, etc. I suggest you read the new Jim Crow, it's a great book it will give you some insight into what's going on.
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  #1032  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2016, 1:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
Because it only affects lower class blacks.
This isn't true. Murder rates among non-black Americans are still vastly higher than murder rates in other first world nations.

And the analogy doesn't make sense, because Islamic terror doesn't affect people randomly either. Has there ever been a single organized Islamic terror attack in Middle America? I mean, even one? Yet people in places like Kansas are apparently deathly afraid of Islamic terror.

The places where Islamic terror is a reality, even if rare, are probably the places least paralyzed by such terror. Parisians are undoubtedly less freaked out than the Duck Dynasty crowd.
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  #1033  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2016, 7:12 AM
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Originally Posted by UPChicago View Post
Please just fucking stop, the government is the reason for this problem in the first place. You can't put in place policies that segregate and deny opportunity to black men and expect them to succeed. What you have today is a direct result of people who think the way you do.
No no.... You stop. Do you live in an area with a 95 per 100k murder rate? Killing someone and having everyone live in fear kills business and gives the residents nothing but fear and hopelessness.

Yeah fatherless kids who have zero respect for life is an "direct result" of people who want more strict policing. If you think the Austin neighborhood has opportunity .......
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  #1034  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2016, 7:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
This isn't true. Murder rates among non-black Americans are still vastly higher than murder rates in other first world nations.

And the analogy doesn't make sense, because Islamic terror doesn't affect people randomly either. Has there ever been a single organized Islamic terror attack in Middle America? I mean, even one? Yet people in places like Kansas are apparently deathly afraid of Islamic terror.

The places where Islamic terror is a reality, even if rare, are probably the places least paralyzed by such terror. Parisians are undoubtedly less freaked out than the Duck Dynasty crowd.
Yes there was an attack in Little Rock,Chattanooga, Fort Hood, and Dallas.
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  #1035  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2016, 7:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
Yes there was an attack in Little Rock,Chattanooga, Fort Hood, and Dallas.
I don't think any of those incidents were found to be organized terror incidents. There may have been a Muslim assailant, or someone inspired by foreign terrorists, but none were operations by the main Islamic terror orgs.

The U.S. has had basically no major Islamic terror incidents since 9-11, yet people are so freaked out they would apparently elect a madman to the Presidency. But if you bring up the tens of thousands of annual murders in the U.S., people's eyes glaze over. "It's just black people" or "must be a conspiracy to take our guns" or "sounds fine to me; it's culling the herd" or other nonsense.
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  #1036  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2016, 7:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Noticed this too. Besides being wildly inaccurate (birth rates among the black underclass have plummeted) the idea that population control is the key to reducing violence is insane.
its misleading to say birth rates among the black underclass have plummeted. birth rates in america have dropped across the board. if you want to say plummeted then rather more so for hispanic and native than white, black or asian.
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  #1037  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2016, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
No no.... You stop. Do you live in an area with a 95 per 100k murder rate? Killing someone and having everyone live in fear kills business and gives the residents nothing but fear and hopelessness.

Yeah fatherless kids who have zero respect for life is an "direct result" of people who want more strict policing. If you think the Austin neighborhood has opportunity .......
How would more "strict" policing solve this problem and benefit these communities? Do you not think that we don't currently have "strict" policing? What do you propose?

If you want to talk about policing, lets talk about how CPD has given up on solving certain murders because they are just gang-bangers. Maybe these people feel they can kill because they have an 8 out of 10 chance of getting away with it.
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  #1038  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2016, 6:17 PM
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12 hours later a retaliation for this shooting took place at a house party. An unknown male killed a man who they think was the hitman at previously mentioned incident. And of course, this wasn't enough. He also shot five other gang members just to send a message. According to words on the street the real drama has just begun.

*edit: According to last news the retaliation shooting left 2 people dead and five injured.

*edit#2: Dead guys from retaliatory shooting were brothers, guy shot from first incident is in grave condition (meaning he is not expected to recover). He was shot in the face, chest, hand, foot & drove himsfelf and female bystander to the hospital in that condition with police cars in front and behind of his vehicle (no, these are not speculative words on the street but confirmed information from reliable sources). In hospital he fell in grave condition. Still can't believe this, but yeah it actually is true. This is the year for the books in Chiraq and those stories will be told for decades. Definitely.
Meanwhile a retaliation for the retaliation shooting took place in O'Block. Two guys walked in and put three bullets into a 23 year old victim at point blank range. He died on the scene. The war between O'Block and Tookaville only produced 3 murders, 2 victims in grave condition, 2 victims in critical condiction and 3 other shooting victims in just 55 hours.
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  #1039  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2016, 6:42 PM
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  #1040  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2016, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Laborant View Post
A little bit update on this story for better understanding of Chiraq's violence.

The hitman who killed his brother was shot yesterday morning with female bystander. He drove her in the hospital but she died on their way over there. The hospital doesn't want to give any information about his condition. That's the second time he has been shot since 25th October, when he took three bullets to his upper body. He was released from hospital just one month ago.

12 hours later a retaliation for this shooting took place at a house party. An unknown male killed a man who they think was the hitman at previously mentioned incident. And of course, this wasn't enough. He also shot five other gang members just to send a message. According to words on the street the real drama has just begun.

*edit: According to last news the retaliation shooting left 2 people dead and five injured.

*edit#2: Dead guys from retaliatory shooting were brothers, guy shot from first incident is in grave condition (meaning he is not expected to recover). He was shot in the face, chest, hand, foot & drove himsfelf and female bystander to the hospital in that condition with police cars in front and behind of his vehicle (no, these are not speculative words on the street but confirmed information from reliable sources). In hospital he fell in grave condition. Still can't believe this, but yeah it actually is true. This is the year for the books in Chiraq and those stories will be told for decades. Definitely.


I just figured out that the guy shot christmas day was him last night, wow.. and the courtyard shooting yesterday was already in response to the house party thing. unreal.

I went back and read some of his tweets. (He is @50frmDaO ).. not long ago he tweeted he was 32 years old, and joked that was 80 in Chicago years.. so true in those areas.
And the tooka guys already deleted some of their stuff taking credit, so maybe they aren't completely stupid


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