Alberta Politics II

[milomilo]

Best this province can hope for is that the NDP go hard at Kenney for his barbaric social views. The UCP will whine that this is unfair, but it is not. If they didn't want to deal with that, then they shouldn't have voted for a lunatic to lead them. As far as I remember, there was at least one sane candidate for leadership.

A nice excerpt from his wikipedia page:

He studied philosophy at the University of San Francisco, a Jesuit university in San Francisco, California, but failed to complete the degree. During his time in San Francisco, he was interviewed by CNN, for a segment exploring "religious values". In the segment, he was credited as "Jason Kenny – Anti-abortion Activist".[7] He argued against Jesuit professors, including Rev. John Clarke, who declared free speech essential to a university. Allowing pro-choice activists on campus, Kenney argued in the CNN interview, was "destroying the mission and the purpose of this university". In the student newspaper, he suggested that if the school gave a platform to pro-choice groups in the name of free speech, it would have no basis to refuse a similar platform to pedophiles or to the Church of Satan

He's little better than an ISIS recruit, actually probably worse as he wasn't brainwashed but truly believes.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by 240glt

So... back to the corruption, nepotism, partisanship, unaccountability of the good ol’ days huh. That’ll be fine.

The NDP has made no progress on any of these. It still spends far more than does any other provincial government and does not hold itself accountable to produce measureably better outcomes. Public sector employment is up by about 70K since the NDP came into power. In the context of a recession how is that anything but corrupt, partisan and under the influence public sector unions?

[Doug]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Best this province can hope for is that the NDP go hard at Kenney for his barbaric social views. The UCP will whine that this is unfair, but it is not. If they didn't want to deal with that, then they shouldn't have voted for a lunatic to lead them. As far as I remember, there was at least one sane candidate for leadership.

A nice excerpt from his wikipedia page:



He's little better than an ISIS recruit, actually probably worse as he wasn't brainwashed but truly believes.

That is so over the top as to be comical. Please cite examples of Kenney's views that align with ISIS or even approach barbaric. The NDP has been a unqualified disaster.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Doug

That is so over the top as to be comical. Please cite examples of Kenney's views that align with ISIS or even approach barbaric. The NDP has been a unqualified disaster.

He bases his policy on a tales of a book of his imaginary friend, making him intellectually equivalent to an ISIS recruit. If a muslim was the leader of a political party and wanted to implement Sharia law, there would be rightful outrage. But Kenney is no different, a lunatic. And he knows that Albertans would mostly agree with me that he is a religious fanatic, as he is too cowardly to even debate what he believes in the Legislature.

There is no unqualified disaster in Alberta, we're doing just fine given the problems caused by a drop in world prices of crude.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Doug

The NDP has made no progress on any of these. It still spends far more than does any other provincial government and does not hold itself accountable to produce measureably better outcomes. Public sector employment is up by about 70K since the NDP came into power. In the context of a recession how is that anything but corrupt, partisan and under the influence public sector unions?

I haven't heard of Notley's relations flying around in government jets yet.

[itom 987]

Originally Posted by Doug

The NDP has made no progress on any of these.

And you think the PC's would have...

*News flash* It doesn't matter what party is running Alberta, our hands would still be tied because BC isn't within Alberta's jurisdiction. Perhaps federal conservative government would have... wait a minute... Stephen Harper tried to get the pipeline built and failed miserably.

FAIL

[240glt]

Originally Posted by Doug

The NDP has made no progress on any of these. It still spends far more than does any other provincial government and does not hold itself accountable to produce measureably better outcomes. Public sector employment is up by about 70K since the NDP came into power. In the context of a recession how is that anything but corrupt, partisan and under the influence public sector unions?

None of this is even remotely true. Are you just making things up to suit your narrative ?

[Doug]

Originally Posted by 240glt

None of this is even remotely true. Are you just making things up to suit your narrative ?

Did the NDP uncover massive opportunities to raise revenue through its royalty review? Has kicking out PC cronies saved significant amounts of money? Has raising tax rates brought in additional revenue? Has the carbon tax or any other gestures defanged the environmental lobby? All of the NDP assumptions have proven false and actions failed to deliver. The real issue is bloated headcount and excessive compensation. Read my post from July 23rd about the undeniable facts around provincial headcount growth.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by milomilo

He bases his policy on a tales of a book of his imaginary friend, making him intellectually equivalent to an ISIS recruit. If a muslim was the leader of a political party and wanted to implement Sharia law, there would be rightful outrage. But Kenney is no different, a lunatic. And he knows that Albertans would mostly agree with me that he is a religious fanatic, as he is too cowardly to even debate what he believes in the Legislature.

There is no unqualified disaster in Alberta, we're doing just fine given the problems caused by a drop in world prices of crude.

Kenney has a 20 year track record as a legislator. His actions do not live up to your vivid imagination. Please cite actual examples.

I agree that the UCP took a cowardly approach to the pathetic NDP stunt of proposing a safe zone around abortion clinics. The better approach would have been to ammend the bill to broaden its application from abortion clinics to all businesses and government buildings and apply to all protestors including strikers.

[itom 987]

What is pathetic about the NDP's "stunt" of proposing save zones around abortion clinics?

Please elaborate on that Doug.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Doug

Kenney has a 20 year track record as a legislator. His actions do not live up to your vivid imagination. Please cite actual examples.

I agree that the UCP took a cowardly approach to the pathetic NDP stunt of proposing a safe zone around abortion clinics. The better approach would have been to ammend the bill to broaden its application from abortion clinics to all businesses and government buildings and apply to all protestors including strikers.

20 years experience as a legislator, and that's it, a career politician, the worst kind. He couldn't manage to finish a philosophy degree at a god university, and it seems hasn't done a day's productive work in his life. I though the conservatives were supposed to be the party of business?

Examples? The one you mentioned is the biggest one along with his policy of wanting to out gay kids, based on no other reason than his own personal faith. You may think social issues are no big deal, but there are many, probably more than you think that will find his barbaric morality abhorrent. He's being very careful not to show his true colours, but it is there to see, and I expect we'll see more of the 'lake of fire' brand of conservatives as we get closer to the election.

As for that specific policy, you couldn't be more wrong. It was a very modest, sensible proposal and if it had the side effect of showing Kenney for what he is, then so be it. If it turns out it's me that's wrong, he could have actually debated this in the legislature but he did not. He took the absolutely pathetic act of insulting our democracy and not engaging in debate, because he knows he is on the wrong side of public opinion. It's right he should get skewered for that, and I'm sure there's more to come.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by itom 987

What is pathetic about the NDP's "stunt" of proposing save zones around abortion clinics?

Please elaborate on that Doug.

Their MLAs seemed pretty upset that they weren't given an exclusion zone from all the protesters opposing the UCP (non) position at the time. But that's different.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by Doug

Did the NDP uncover massive opportunities to raise revenue through its royalty review? Has kicking out PC cronies saved significant amounts of money? Has raising tax rates brought in additional revenue? Has the carbon tax or any other gestures defanged the environmental lobby? All of the NDP assumptions have proven false and actions failed to deliver. The real issue is bloated headcount and excessive compensation. Read my post from July 23rd about the undeniable facts around provincial headcount growth.

You make a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions in that post, Plus you don't differentiate between what might be federal, provincial or municipal jobs, or what might actually be a private position within those figures. The simple spreadsheet doesn't tell you much, really.

The real # I've heard is that provincial employment is up about 10,000. Some of the largest departments have had hiring freezes for the past three years. The bloat you claim exists is imaginary.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by 240glt

You make a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions in that post, Plus you don't differentiate between what might be federal, provincial or municipal jobs, or what might actually be a private position within those figures. The simple spreadsheet doesn't tell you much, really.

The real # I've heard is that provincial employment is up about 10,000. Some of the largest departments have had hiring freezes for the past three years. The bloat you claim exists is imaginary.

Real or imagined, the problem for the NDP is many people believe what they are being told and that is the NDP has gone on a massive hiring spree. That's going to be very difficult for them to overcome even if it's not true.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by itom 987

What is pathetic about the NDP's "stunt" of proposing save zones around abortion clinics?

Please elaborate on that Doug.

It's a stunt because it only applied to abortion clinics.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by 240glt

You make a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions in that post, Plus you don't differentiate between what might be federal, provincial or municipal jobs, or what might actually be a private position within those figures. The simple spreadsheet doesn't tell you much, really.

The real # I've heard is that provincial employment is up about 10,000. Some of the largest departments have had hiring freezes for the past three years. The bloat you claim exists is imaginary.

So you dispute the Statscan numbers? The only assumption I made is that most government employment in AB is not federal. Health and education are the largest departments. They have not been frozen.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Doug

It's a stunt because it only applied to abortion clinics.

It was around abortion clinics because that's where the problem is, obviously. How exactly could you enforce a protest exclusion zone around all businesses and public buildings? You wouldn't be able to protest anywhere, although I would guess that wouldn't be an issue to you?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Examples? The one you mentioned is the biggest one along with his policy of wanting to out gay kids, based on no other reason than his own personal faith. You may think social issues are no big deal, but there are many, probably more than you think that will find his barbaric morality abhorrent. He's being very careful not to show his true colours, but it is there to see, and I expect we'll see more of the 'lake of fire' brand of conservatives as we get closer to the election.

As for that specific policy, you couldn't be more wrong. It was a very modest, sensible proposal and if it had the side effect of showing Kenney for what he is, then so be it. If it turns out it's me that's wrong, he could have actually debated this in the legislature but he did not. He took the absolutely pathetic act of insulting our democracy and not engaging in debate, because he knows he is on the wrong side of public opinion. It's right he should get skewered for that, and I'm sure there's more to come.

Originally Posted by Doug

I agree that the UCP took a cowardly approach to the pathetic NDP stunt of proposing a safe zone around abortion clinics. The better approach would have been to amend the bill to broaden its application from abortion clinics to all businesses and government buildings and apply to all protesters including strikers.

The amendment as you have suggested would have voted down by the NDP majority. Further, any amendment would have legitimized the NDP position.

The UCP walkout was in regards to the heckling by the NDP caucus against the UCP MLA's . IIRC MLA Pitt was heckled in the first debate, so everyone from the UCP got up and left the debate.

As to the substantive nature of Bill 9; my problem is that it wreaked of partisanship because it came out of nowhere and was not previously mentioned. Whereas the Farm worker safety changes were announced early on during the NDP mandate, the abortion safe zones were not mentioned. IF the safe zones were a response to public safety concern, there should have been a precedent setting case/instance. Without precedence, why did the NDP wait nearly 3 years to bring about legislative change? I have posed this question to NDP MLAs and their staff without answer.

Originally Posted by 240glt

The real # I've heard is that provincial employment is up about 10,000. Some of the largest departments have had hiring freezes for the past three years. The bloat you claim exists is imaginary.

By the NDP's own calculations they have added 4,000+ teachers and at least twice that much to the Healthcare system. I think your 10,000 increase in provincial employment only relates to the core government services. The larger picture of public sector employment includes a larger list of agencies and corporations and contractors (e.g. IBM has a multitude of contracts with the AB gov't).

[Doug]

Originally Posted by milomilo

It was around abortion clinics because that's where the problem is, obviously. How exactly could you enforce a protest exclusion zone around all businesses and public buildings? You wouldn't be able to protest anywhere, although I would guess that wouldn't be an issue to you?

Is it a problem or simply an imagined problem that suits the uninspired objective of distracting from a horrible economic record? A protestor is a protestor is a protestor. A teacher walking a picket line is no different than someone showing pictures of a bloody fetus. They have a right to express themselves but not to intimidate, significantly inconvenience any individual or materially harm a business through physical actions.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Cage

The amendment as you have suggested would have voted down by the NDP majority. Further, any amendment would have legitimized the NDP position.

The UCP walkout was in regards to the heckling by the NDP caucus against the UCP MLA's . IIRC MLA Pitt was heckled in the first debate, so everyone from the UCP got up and left the debate.

As to the substantive nature of Bill 9; my problem is that it wreaked of partisanship because it came out of nowhere and was not previously mentioned. Whereas the Farm worker safety changes were announced early on during the NDP mandate, the abortion safe zones were not mentioned. IF the safe zones were a response to public safety concern, there should have been a precedent setting case/instance. Without precedence, why did the NDP wait nearly 3 years to bring about legislative change? I have posed this question to NDP MLAs and their staff without answer.



By the NDP's own calculations they have added 4,000+ teachers and at least twice that much to the Healthcare system. I think your 10,000 increase in provincial employment only relates to the core government services. The larger picture of public sector employment includes a larger list of agencies and corporations and contractors (e.g. IBM has a multitude of contracts with the AB gov't).

Stats Can has employment in education sector up by 22k from Jun-15 through Jun-18, an increase of 16%. Some of that would be privately funded, but definately not the majority. It is also highly unlikely that the percentage increase would be skewed towards privately funded positions.