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  #201  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2017, 10:12 PM
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Je pensais justement a ca tantot en lisant la chronique de Lise Ravary dans le Journal de Mtl/Qc d'aujourd'hui (dim 16 juillet) sur le sujet. J'ai meme failli mettre le lien dans ce fil...

(desole pour l'absence d'accents ajd - je suis sur un laptop US)
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  #202  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2017, 10:20 PM
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Given the Federal Liberals' glass ceiling in most of Quebec, the NDP picking Singh would make the next federal election particularly unpredictable in our province.

As I pointed out a while ago, the most interesting election would've been with Bernier and Singh. Now that the CPC elected a nobody (from our point of view...) and that it's likely that both the CPC and NDP will have religious nuts as their leaders, we might get a decent, highish-for-Libs result for the Trudeau Liberals, but most voters - what will they do? I suppose the Bloc would do extremely well if they had unity and a popular leader, but they don't really.
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  #203  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2017, 11:18 PM
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I noticed that the media seemed to be giving Singh the inside track this past week. I still don't have any sense of whether there's any substance there - the little I have seen leaves me in some doubt.

Natty dresser though.
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  #204  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2017, 1:28 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Given the Federal Liberals' glass ceiling in most of Quebec, the NDP picking Singh would make the next federal election particularly unpredictable in our province.

As I pointed out a while ago, the most interesting election would've been with Bernier and Singh. Now that the CPC elected a nobody (from our point of view...) and that it's likely that both the CPC and NDP will have religious nuts as their leaders, we might get a decent, highish-for-Libs result for the Trudeau Liberals, but most voters - what will they do? I suppose the Bloc would do extremely well if they had unity and a popular leader, but they don't really.
"Religious nuts".
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  #205  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2017, 2:14 AM
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The interesting thing about that poll about is how the most open minded of Canadians are in the Atlantic region.
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  #206  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2017, 8:56 AM
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The interesting thing about that poll about is how the most open minded of Canadians are in the Atlantic region.
The region is quite mature and magnanimous.
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  #207  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 3:31 AM
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The interesting thing about that poll about is how the most open minded of Canadians are in the Atlantic region.
It seems in recent polls, Atlantic Canada is the most liberal region on almost all issues. It might be because of the presence of Trudeau (who remains incredibly popular there)?
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  #208  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 3:44 AM
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Singh seems to be considered the front-runner just because the media considers him the front-runner. I don't know how much clout he has in Ontario but out here he's just another no-name candidate to me. Until his numbers come out it's hard to really speculate.

Regardless, the race has only just started to become more substantive. It'll become clearer moving forward.
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  #209  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 8:34 PM
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The fact that Quebec is less receptive to non-Christian religious groups or people of different ethnicities or races is no surprise. I wouldn't even say it's a Quebec wide issue but very much a Franco-Quebec one.

Many older Quebecers still cling to the mentality of "pure laine" which effectively means unless you are white and Francophone then you are not a "real" Quebecer. The separatist movement of the 60s & 70s was very much built upon this belief. Thank god this offensive policy has basically vanished from political discourse in Quebec but there are many older hard core separatists who still cling to the mentality even if they are less vocal about it than they once were.
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  #210  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 8:43 PM
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I am sorry but you are partly off here.

Right :
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The fact that Quebec is less receptive to non-Christian religious groups or people of different ethnicities or races is no surprise.
Wrong : the justification.
The fact that Quebecers are less receptive to people who show their religion lies in their history (the abuses and the control of the Roman catholic church until the end of the 50s) and the values that they strongly hold on to such as "laïcité" (the fact that religion should always be separate from politics, the same way for example that the judiciary and politics must never interfer). This is not a logic of exclusion, but a way to treat everyone equally, and thus inclusion. Practice whatever you want at home and at the temple, shrine, church, mosquée... But let religion home when it comes to governance and politics. Quebecers strongly believe in laïcité.

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Many older Quebecers still cling to the mentality of "pure laine" which effectively means unless you are white and Francophone then you are not a "real" Quebecer. ***The separatist movement of the 60s & 70s was very much built upon this belief***. Thank god this offensive policy has basically vanished from political discourse in Quebec but there are many older hard core separatists who still cling to the mentality even if they are less vocal about it than they once were.

The wrongest part of your statement lies ***there***
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  #211  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 8:48 PM
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"Pure laine" is definitely a term that was used by both francophones and anglophones at one time, but these days you hear it more in English (usually outside Quebec) than within Quebec itself.

That said, I don't know that it was ever even used in public by an elected official in Quebec.

I am sitting right now in the first riding in the history of Quebec to elect a black representative. His name was Jean Alfred and he was elected by a 99.9% white constituency on Nov. 15, 1976. He was of Haitian origin and a member of the Parti Québécois.
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  #212  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 1:51 AM
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This is not a logic of exclusion, but a way to treat everyone equally, and thus inclusion. Practice whatever you want at home and at the temple, shrine, church, mosquée... But let religion home when it comes to governance and politics. Quebecers strongly believe in laïcité.
I happened to have breakfast in a fancier place than usual this morning and they had today's Le Devoir; I found an interesting article about Singh in there, and learned, among other things, that he seems to have masterminded a legal exception to motorcycle helmet laws in Ontario for people who play the religion card.

That's not the kind of thing you want on your résumé if you're going to try to seduce Quebec voters.
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  #213  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 2:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
The fact that Quebec is less receptive to non-Christian religious groups or people of different ethnicities or races is no surprise. I wouldn't even say it's a Quebec wide issue but very much a Franco-Quebec one.

Many older Quebecers still cling to the mentality of "pure laine" which effectively means unless you are white and Francophone then you are not a "real" Quebecer. The separatist movement of the 60s & 70s was very much built upon this belief. Thank god this offensive policy has basically vanished from political discourse in Quebec but there are many older hard core separatists who still cling to the mentality even if they are less vocal about it than they once were.
No, it is the accent that is decisive. You can't imitate the Quebec accent. it is very easy to know if someone was born here or not. Some people may have been born here but for some reasons they kept the accent of their parents (immigrants), those will have a harder time finding a job.

Jagmeet Singh, ? can he speak french as good as Harper did ?
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  #214  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 3:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
"Pure laine" is definitely a term that was used by both francophones and anglophones at one time, but these days you hear it more in English (usually outside Quebec) than within Quebec itself.

That said, I don't know that it was ever even used in public by an elected official in Quebec.

I am sitting right now in the first riding in the history of Quebec to elect a black representative. His name was Jean Alfred and he was elected by a 99.9% white constituency on Nov. 15, 1976. He was of Haitian origin and a member of the Parti Québécois.
He didn't last very long, though, before he quit the PQ for what I recall (vaguely) were reasons relating to a lack of acceptance.
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  #215  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 3:33 AM
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He didn't last very long, though, before he quit the PQ for what I recall (vaguely) were reasons relating to a lack of acceptance.
Nope. Not Jean Alfred. He lost the following election as did the other fluke PQ member in Hull that won in 1976 by a single vote.

Jean Alfred never renounced the PQ or sovereignty. He actually tried to recruit me when I first met him in the 1990s.

Your story is plausible. As is anything. But not about Jean Alfred.
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  #216  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 4:13 AM
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... and that it's likely that both the CPC and NDP will have religious nuts as their leaders, we might get a decent, highish-for-Libs result for the Trudeau Liberals, ...
So you're saying that Quebecois are okay voting for a "religious nut" who believes in impregnating aliens, zombies and ritual cannibalism but not other nuts?? Hmmmm
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  #217  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 10:49 AM
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One could observe that there has been an noticeable lack of protest in quarters of the Quebec persuasion about the PM's being a professed Christian and, worse, being seen to make the sign of the cross at public events, which my background taught me is a sure sign of the dev.. er, Church of Rome. What could it all mean?
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  #218  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 1:12 PM
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One could observe that there has been an noticeable lack of protest in quarters of the Quebec persuasion about the PM's being a professed Christian and, worse, being seen to make the sign of the cross at public events, which my background taught me is a sure sign of the dev.. er, Church of Rome. What could it all mean?
Does he really do that, and regularly? I've never seen him do any of that, although admittedly I don't watch his press conferences and speeches from end to end on all-news channels. He also AFAIK doesn't wear a visible cross or anything of that nature. I'll have to ask my kids - they were in close quarters with him fairly recently.

Anyway, if he did it would be surprising if the Quebec media gave him a free pass. They aren't unanimously Trudeau-manic.

Stephen Harper got heaps of criticism for ending his speeches with "God bless Canada", so I suppose if Trudeau were as ostentatiously religious it would get brought up.

Overall it seems to me that Justin Trudeau keeps his religious views to himself. Just like Amir Khadir whose Islamic faith (the nature of which has never been clarified - and no one seems to care because he doesn't make it public) is a non-issue. Or that of Danièle Henkel, by far the most popular of Quebec's "Dragons". She is Jewish. So is Anne-France Goldwater, who is effectively Quebec's Judge Judy.

OTOH, a lot of people would consider the mayor of Saguenay, Jean Tremblay, to be a "religious nut" even if he is as French Canadian Québécois Catholic as they come. His negative media image reflects the "religious nut" perception. (Though I assume he does have some supporters.) He's gone to the Supreme Court to keep the right to recite the Our Father before city council meetings. He's also made fun of the name of PQ candidate Djemila Ben-Habib. Jean Tremblay is also a committed Canadian federalist BTW, and even a bit of an anglophile.
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  #219  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 1:14 PM
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So you're saying that Quebecois are okay voting for a "religious nut" who believes in impregnating aliens, zombies and ritual cannibalism but not other nuts?? Hmmmm
Am I the only one who doesn't get this?
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  #220  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 1:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
The fact that Quebec is less receptive to non-Christian religious groups or people of different ethnicities or races is no surprise. I wouldn't even say it's a Quebec wide issue but very much a Franco-Quebec one.

Many older Quebecers still cling to the mentality of "pure laine" which effectively means unless you are white and Francophone then you are not a "real" Quebecer. The separatist movement of the 60s & 70s was very much built upon this belief. Thank god this offensive policy has basically vanished from political discourse in Quebec but there are many older hard core separatists who still cling to the mentality even if they are less vocal about it than they once were.
Quebec is less receptive than the rest of the country to politicians who would publicly demonstrate their Christian / catholic religious affiliation. Mixing religion and politics is a definite no-no here. Jean Tremblay, the very catholic mayor of Saguenay, is derided by most of the province for his extreme religious views He has publicly said that his decisions as a mayor are guided by God and Jesus and the rest ; not the best way to gain credibility in today's Quebec...

Here's a very interesting and accurate analysis on why Quebecers are suspicious of religion in politics :

Jagmeet Singh’s Quebec problem
In a province where suspicion of religion in politics is a progressive impulse, the NDP leadership hopeful is facing an uphill battle
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