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  #2461  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2010, 4:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TonyAnderson View Post
FrontRunner to Santaquin?
Maybe a very long long long way down the road Santiquin may get Front Runner. This vote would be for UTA Busses to service Santiquin. Currently the end of the UTA line for commuter busses is the 800 S exit in Payson. Front Runner is slated to eventually terminate its service at 800 South in Payson as well. The location of the station has been identified and the land directly to the south is under the control of one owner, who is envisioning a a TOD in the area and Payson City has adopted a TOD Overlay zone which has been applied to the area. UTA's Right of Way currently ends at 800 S Payson.

As for Santiquin getting Front Runner, it could happen but UTA's most recent discussion with Payson officials (formerly me) is that Front Runner to Payson will be completed by 2025 at the latest and depending on demand, calculated from express buss service from Payson to Provo terminus could jump that time line sooner. I would anticipate that Santiquin, Mona, and Nephi along with the goshen valley to the west of Santiquin and Payson is going to have to grow substantially before UTA takes a look at and southward expansion. Bus service is a good place to start though.
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  #2462  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2010, 6:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Future Mayor View Post
Maybe a very long long long way down the road Santaquin may get Front Runner. This vote would be for UTA Busses to service Santaquin. Currently the end of the UTA line for commuter busses is the 800 S exit in Payson. Front Runner is slated to eventually terminate its service at 800 South in Payson as well. The location of the station has been identified and the land directly to the south is under the control of one owner, who is envisioning a a TOD in the area and Payson City has adopted a TOD Overlay zone which has been applied to the area. UTA's Right of Way currently ends at 800 S Payson.

As for Santaquin getting Front Runner, it could happen but UTA's most recent discussion with Payson officials (formerly me) is that Front Runner to Payson will be completed by 2025 at the latest and depending on demand, calculated from express buss service from Payson to Provo terminus could jump that time line sooner. I would anticipate that Santaquin, Mona, and Nephi along with the goshen valley to the west of Santaquin and Payson is going to have to grow substantially before UTA takes a look at and southward expansion. Bus service is a good place to start though.
The issue of not owning the right of way is hardly damning the future expansion of UTA rails into Santaquin (aquring that right of way only takes a couple of years). My mom worked as a paralegal for the lawyer at Snell and Wilmer who negotiated UTA's purchase of the right of way from Union Pacific.

Also, my grandfather and uncle (long time Santaquin residents) were at the meeting UTA held in regards to the annexation of the city into the bus system and it was made clear that UTA did have plans to bring Front Runner to Santaquin with the future stop being located near the second I-15 exit. The interesting thing my grandfather told me is that they were told in the meeting that UTA would actually have to lay a totally new line because the old rail line is in a horrible location (it literally moves away from the freeway and curves many times around various flat areas of farms because it used to be a chore for some trains to get over the steep incline in the more direct and straight path).

I do think it will be some time before the line extends beyond Provo, but it will not stop at Payson when that expansion is made.

P.S.

I went back and kindly edited the part of my post that quoted your post so as to correct the spelling of Santaquin.

Last edited by s.p.hansen; Oct 11, 2010 at 6:59 AM.
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  #2463  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2010, 6:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SLCdude View Post
Here's a map that's posted on the insides of TRAX trains

http://www.rideuta.com/ridinguta/rou...749&signup=101
arkhitektor's map is better because it shows how the lines will congest as they make their way to Main Street in Salt Lake City.
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  #2464  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2010, 7:40 AM
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Originally Posted by s.p.hansen View Post
arkhitektor's map is better because it shows how the lines will congest as they make their way to Main Street in Salt Lake City.
No, arkhitektor's map is wrong because he shows all of the lines going to the central station, which they won't do. Only two of the lines will go to the central station. The airport line, for example, doesn't go to the central station at all.
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  #2465  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2010, 7:56 AM
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No, arkhitektor's map is wrong because he shows all of the lines going to the central station, which they won't do. Only two of the lines will go to the central station. The airport line, for example, doesn't go to the central station at all.
This was already treated on the previous page of this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.p.hansen View Post


I can't even fathom how crowded with trains the section of the light rail line from Main Street all the way to the Delta Center is going to be.

This really cool map that arkhitektor created really drives the point home. Though the Airport line will not feed into the SLC intermodel hub (as he assumed in the map), that would not be necessary seeing on how there will be a new stop for Front Runner North made to meet people at the TRAX stop on the North Temple Viaduct of the Airport line.
Besides the Airport Line, what other TRAX lines will not eventually find their way to the central station?

arkhitektor just needs to make one tiny correction and his map will then be both the most accurate and useful in understanding the routes and congestion implications.


arkhitektor


Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTA_TRAX
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  #2466  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2010, 3:59 PM
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There has been a lot of discussion at UTA about the University Line. Their last model that I saw a few weeks ago would not have University trains going to SL Central at all. All University trains would go south at 4th South and if you wanted to continue downtown you have to change trains at the Courthouse Station. Some trains would go to Sandy and some to Daybreak along the new line.

I personally think that's a huge mistake though I don't know enough about the ridership numbers to have to strong of an opinion.
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  #2467  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2010, 4:57 PM
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Yes eventually FrontRunner will extend all the way to Nephi, however currently the southern expansion is slated to end in Payson and has an actual time table for completion.

P.S. I realized I spelled Santaquin incorrectly in my post after I posted it but didn't care enough to go back and change the spelling figuring that everyone would get the point. BTW there are spelling errors all over this board, so don't worry about fixing them all in your replies.
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  #2468  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2010, 5:24 PM
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Originally Posted by UTPlanner View Post
There has been a lot of discussion at UTA about the University Line. Their last model that I saw a few weeks ago would not have University trains going to SL Central at all. All University trains would go south at 4th South and if you wanted to continue downtown you have to change trains at the Courthouse Station. Some trains would go to Sandy and some to Daybreak along the new line.

I personally think that's a huge mistake though I don't know enough about the ridership numbers to have to strong of an opinion.
That change to the University line could change my life in adverse ways. Now I'm really nervous for this whole realignment deal.

The brilliance of the whole thing has been being able to get off of FrontRunner and immediately onto a University TRAX train with zero waiting. If they made it so you had to make another connection in the morning, I would be much more apt to drive my car to the U of U from Bountiful.

I guess we'll just have to see how it goes.
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  #2469  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2010, 5:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Future Mayor View Post
Yes eventually FrontRunner will extend all the way to Nephi, however currently the southern expansion is slated to end in Payson and has an actual time table for completion.

P.S. I realized I spelled Santaquin incorrectly in my post after I posted it but didn't care enough to go back and change the spelling figuring that everyone would get the point. BTW there are spelling errors all over this board, so don't worry about fixing them all in your replies.
Well, I doubt Nephi will get the Front Runner extension in the same wave Payson does, but I think it's still too early to count Santaquin out. If you look at the Mid-Jordan TRAX line and how UTA is planning ahead for a projected population expansion (with some stops in the middle of nowhere), I don't think it is too far of a stretch to say that come the 10 plus years or so when Payson is continuing to grow and Santaquin right behind it, that UTA would see it fit to lay track in an area with anticipation of many future new costumers. There is a big difference in distance between of Payson to Santaquin and Santaquin to Nephi.

But yes, there is much that needs to happen in Santaquin first, like building a grocery store.

P.S. I'm no spelling expert and commit many errors myself without it causing me the pain of a guilty conscience, but coming from a person with Payson connections, it seems only natural to interpret the repeated misspelling of Santaquin as a possible dis .

Last edited by s.p.hansen; Oct 11, 2010 at 6:00 PM.
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  #2470  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2010, 6:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UTPlanner View Post
There has been a lot of discussion at UTA about the University Line. Their last model that I saw a few weeks ago would not have University trains going to SL Central at all. All University trains would go south at 4th South and if you wanted to continue downtown you have to change trains at the Courthouse Station. Some trains would go to Sandy and some to Daybreak along the new line.

I personally think that's a huge mistake though I don't know enough about the ridership numbers to have to strong of an opinion.
I hope they keep the University to Central line. It's the only line I use and my friends and I take it every weekend. I also know a couple of people who take Frontrunner to SL Central and ride TRAX to the U. I think this would be a mistake, especially after Frontrunner South opens up!
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  #2471  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2010, 7:56 PM
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I agree with you guys. When UTA officially announces the changes make sure you make your opinions known. UTA has often bowed to public pressures.
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  #2472  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 6:46 PM
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I've been out of town for a week and missed the earlier discussion about the map I drew. It was done a couple of years ago and I was just guessing what would happen with the new lines.

There has been a lot of speculation about where the new lines will terminate, but I've never seen anything official from UTA about what is happening. The only indication regarding the Mid-Jordan line is the "route temporary south of Fashion Place" note on the green line which implies that the green line will run between the University and Daybreak when finished. Have they officially announced anything regarding the Airport and WVC lines?

The one thing that has become clear to me from various statements and the short-lived and ill-conceived plan to stop Sandy trains at the Arena station is that they have little interest in making the Central Station a viable hub for transit in the city. Once the N. Temple TRAX/FR transfer station is complete, I can't imagine why anyone would use Central Station anymore.

On a barely related note, I've been in New York for the past week. I realize that their subway system is very complex, was built like 100 years ago and is a far more integral part of the city's transit system than TRAX is here, but if our trains and stations were even half as dirty and poorly maintained as New York's are, nobody from Utah would ever step foot on a train. I don't think I'll ever complain about the "ghetto TRAX" trains on the University line again....
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  #2473  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 7:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhitektor View Post
I've been out of town for a week and missed the earlier discussion about the map I drew. It was done a couple of years ago and I was just guessing what would happen with the new lines.

There has been a lot of speculation about where the new lines will terminate, but I've never seen anything official from UTA about what is happening. The only indication regarding the Mid-Jordan line is the "route temporary south of Fashion Place" note on the green line which implies that the green line will run between the University and Daybreak when finished. Have they officially announced anything regarding the Airport and WVC lines?

The one thing that has become clear to me from various statements and the short-lived and ill-conceived plan to stop Sandy trains at the Arena station is that they have little interest in making the Central Station a viable hub for transit in the city. Once the N. Temple TRAX/FR transfer station is complete, I can't imagine why anyone would use Central Station anymore.
At first I thought the North Temple TRAX/FR transfer station was a really bad idea, but I've come around to thinking otherwise.

When I ride TRAX every weekday morning to the U of U the Sandy and University trains get packed as everyone piles on them from Front Runner. Now just imagine how much worse that situation would be with the Front Runner South train unloading around the same time. When you consider how much larger the Front Runner South line is vs. the North, it seems like a really good long term plan to split the load of passengers between more TRAX trains. And it seems to fit the need for the airport line which UTA should keep as simple as possible (less transfers) so that people who don't have a clue on how the system works could just get on it and go right to downtown.

I would like to see the University TRAX line extend down 400 South to the SLC Central hub (as indicated on the Down Town Rising website).
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  #2474  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 8:44 PM
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Federal funding could fast-track downtown streetcars
By Derek P. Jensen
The Salt Lake Tribune

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50...-east.html.csp
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  #2475  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 10:57 PM
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Yes, let's hope it happens soon. Streetcars will be a HUGE plus for Downtown and Salt Lake City proper. I think it will also help to energize efforts in Ogden and Provo metros also.
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  #2476  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2010, 3:47 AM
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I was bored today, so I made a google map with all of the UTA Rail Lines on it. I also added in the proposed downtown and Sugarhouse streetcar lines. If there are colors you would rather see for any of them let me know, and I can change them. Here is the link:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...95601&t=h&z=12

Enjoy!
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  #2477  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2010, 3:58 AM
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Originally Posted by stayinginformed View Post
I was bored today, so I made a google map with all of the UTA Rail Lines on it. I also added in the proposed downtown and Sugarhouse streetcar lines. If there are colors you would rather see for any of them let me know, and I can change them. Here is the link:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...95601&t=h&z=12

Enjoy!
You could also add the Draper extension.
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  #2478  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2010, 4:09 AM
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Draper officially added.
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  #2479  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2010, 5:05 AM
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FYI ... overheard planners talking re: UTA lines. I won't say which organization, since I work for them right now. Basically, for a line to make it onto a regional plan, the ridership numbers need to be kicking butt for them to even be allowed to put a TRAX or Frontrunner extension on the long-range plan.

It's all about financial constraints. Legally, the long-range plan has to use the money in a manner that best serves the people living inside a metro area. If they spend $500 million on a Frontrunner expansion to serve 800 riders, it's not as well used as adding a bunch of bus service somewhere else that could serve a greater number of riders.

It also explains a lot why I don't see huge ambitious freeway projects on there. There's just no demand for a Butterfield Canyon Freeway. Nor a I-415 that runs from Saratoga Springs to Nephi. Or a Tooele-Eagle Mountain beltway.

Anyway, thought that was interesting. That's why the bit of transit we have in SLC is impressive. It's a nightmare to get any project through the Environmental Studies (EIS, EA, etc.), let alone getting it funded.
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  #2480  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2010, 12:06 PM
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Salt Lake City leaders seeking federal funds for downtown streetcar system - Group says government recently has shown support for similar projects across the country

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...ar-system.html

...Using criteria such as area demographics, zoning and activity generators, the consultants identified an initial alignment for a trolley-style rail line designed to shuttle pedestrians around downtown as well as bolster business and development.

The consultants recommend building the project in two phases, with the first of those connecting the future Harmons grocery store at City Creek Center on the corner of 100 South and 200 East with Salt Lake Central Station at approximately 600 West and 300 South.

The 1.7-mile line is proposed to be built on the outside lane of both sides of the street and cost between $49.2 million and $55.5 million...




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