HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #3541  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2011, 3:52 AM
(Eco)nomy_404's Avatar
(Eco)nomy_404 (Eco)nomy_404 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 292


I`m trying to figure out who would use this bridge. I doubt even 1,000 people live in the area that would benefit from a Utah Lake bridge (south of Eagle Mountain). The only population center is Saratoga Springs and Eagle Mountain which are at the far north anyway and wouldn`t be inconvenienced by driving east to I-15 around the lake. There`s a mountain range there anyway, so the bridge would have to connect way to the south which would be so close to the southern horn of the lake to even be worth the bother. Just drive around the stupid lake. It you`re stupid enough to live out there while your job requires you to commute into Provo that`s your problem. We don`t need to spend millions of dollars just to accommodate you.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3542  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2011, 5:49 AM
SLCdude's Avatar
SLCdude SLCdude is offline
PSU MURP student
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 831


Agreed! I'm all for spending millions of dollars on public projects, but a bridge over Utah Lake? I cannot help but wonder if this is a joke.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3543  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2011, 6:03 AM
xseven xseven is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Eco)nomy_404 View Post
Just drive around the stupid lake. It you`re stupid enough to live out there while your job requires you to commute into Provo that`s your problem. We don`t need to spend millions of dollars just to accommodate you.
Words of wisdom... I couldn't agree more.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3544  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2011, 6:07 AM
H4vok's Avatar
H4vok H4vok is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 333
Quote:
Indictment says Utah Lake bridge financiers were frauds

BY LEE DAVIDSON THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
The people who were supposedly raising money to finance the construction of a proposed private toll bridge across Utah Lake have been indicted for falsely posing as venture bankers to steal up-front fundraising fees that they collected from the project’s would-be developers...
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52...oject.html.csp

Last edited by H4vok; Sep 28, 2011 at 4:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3545  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2011, 4:11 PM
scottharding scottharding is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 1,540
Well that's good news. Good news that the bridge won't happen, good news that the thieves were caught, and good news that some morons are getting a wake up call.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3546  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2011, 4:49 AM
SLCdude's Avatar
SLCdude SLCdude is offline
PSU MURP student
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 831
BAhahaha!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3547  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2011, 5:24 AM
i-215's Avatar
i-215 i-215 is offline
Belt Route
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SLC/Vegas/SoCal
Posts: 3,145
I met Leon Howard and I do feel bad for him. But I did find the "upfront cash" a bit concerning. Where was the money coming from?

Now we know. Too bad. I guess he should've done his homework first.
__________________
Life is nicer at 70 miles per hour
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3548  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2011, 6:00 PM
BrennanW's Avatar
BrennanW BrennanW is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Manhattan, Kansas USA.
Posts: 196
I'm thinking there are a considerable number of developers backing the project so they can build out the West side of the lake on the cheap - without paying for a bridge themselves.
__________________
Proud Kansan
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3549  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2011, 8:59 PM
John Martin's Avatar
John Martin John Martin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,224
Just a thought: Utah Lake is huge. Even at 20 knots, it would take about 40 minutes for a ferry to cross the lake from the proposed start and end points. It would be 10 minutes shorter to drive between the same points. And I think 20 knots is being incredibly generous, considering how shallow the lake is. To have speed like that, you'd need big boats, which would be very costly and probably wouldn't fit in the lake to begin with. Even if it were dredged, the frequency would be terrible under the best of circumstances. Would people be willing to wait up to 40 minutes (or much more) for a ferry that takes an additional 40 minutes to cross the lake? And would they be willing to pay the high price as well? I don't think so.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3550  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2011, 5:23 AM
StevenF's Avatar
StevenF StevenF is online now
The Drifter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: American Fork, UT
Posts: 1,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Martin View Post
Just a thought: Utah Lake is huge. Even at 20 knots, it would take about 40 minutes for a ferry to cross the lake from the proposed start and end points. It would be 10 minutes shorter to drive between the same points. And I think 20 knots is being incredibly generous, considering how shallow the lake is. To have speed like that, you'd need big boats, which would be very costly and probably wouldn't fit in the lake to begin with. Even if it were dredged, the frequency would be terrible under the best of circumstances. Would people be willing to wait up to 40 minutes (or much more) for a ferry that takes an additional 40 minutes to cross the lake? And would they be willing to pay the high price as well? I don't think so.
People will use it if its the only option they have. Which is faster driving around the lake or taking a ferry? you talk about a bridge being faster than taking a boat, but the bridge is not even built yet so people are not even used to the idea of cars being faster. I am sure both would be faster then driving around it and that's what people want. I say dredge the lake put in ferries and connect buses to each loading dock to take those that don't want to pay the extra cost to ride in there cars. Make it part of the UTA system.

I believe its would be closer to 30 min for a ferry as the one I have been on is about a 15 mile trip and took 75-80 minutes to go from one location to the next. Just think of all that you can do while you are not driving. These boats could have WiFi and you could be doing your homework, Facebook, Youtube or business while waiting to cross.

You say it would be costly for the boats required. How much is this bridge going to cost? 100million +? I think preserving the beauty of the lake with boats is worth the cost it would to add a ferry system.

I served my LDS mission in Canada and spent a few times riding on the ferries from Nova Scotia to Prince Edward Island(PEI). The ferries had restaurant's and sometimes shops in them. There are ways to recoup the cost of the boats other than the price you pay to get on.

With a boat you wont have to pull over at a pullout zone to take in the view of the lake and surrounding area.

Another question is to ask do we really want a bridge running down the middle of Utah Lake? Personally I think it would detract from the lake and I don't like the idea.

Sometimes we need to take life slow and enjoy the ride.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3551  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2011, 6:12 AM
John Martin's Avatar
John Martin John Martin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,224
Uhh, I'm not supporting the bridge. I guess I didn't make that clear. It takes about 30 minutes to drive around the lake from the point where the bridge would start to the point where the bridge would end. Assuming a ferry would take the same route as the bridge (or any route, really), it would be faster to drive around the north end of the lake than it would be to take a ferry, and that's excluding the wait time before boarding. It would probably take 5-15 minutes to drive across the bridge.

And also, just to play devil's advocate, the proposed bridge would've been privately funded. The cost isn't the public's concern.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3552  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2011, 3:37 PM
jtrent77 jtrent77 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Martin View Post
Uhh, I'm not supporting the bridge. I guess I didn't make that clear. It takes about 30 minutes to drive around the lake from the point where the bridge would start to the point where the bridge would end. Assuming a ferry would take the same route as the bridge (or any route, really), it would be faster to drive around the north end of the lake than it would be to take a ferry, and that's excluding the wait time before boarding. It would probably take 5-15 minutes to drive across the bridge.

And also, just to play devil's advocate, the proposed bridge would've been privately funded. The cost isn't the public's concern.
That's assuming that the company that owns the bridge doesn't go bankrupt, which as shown by recent news related items could easily happen. This is what I fear will happen:

Bridge gets built

Mass amount of homes are sold for much higher prices on West side of lake because of the new bridge

Bridge starts to deteriorate, company that owns it no longer cares because their only purpose was to drive up land prices on west side

Company goes bankrupt, and the state is left with a bad bridge that the residents insist must be fixed because is is their right to have a bridge, blah blah blah

I think you see where I am going with this. I am not a fan of the bridge at all. If there were already skyscrapers on both sides of the lake, maybe, but let's not destroy the lake so that some construction company and landowner on the other side can be uber wealthy while the rest of us have to stare at an eyesore. It would just be the next step to destroying the lake even more than we already have.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3553  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2011, 8:54 PM
Old&New's Avatar
Old&New Old&New is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Martin View Post
Uhh, I'm not supporting the bridge. I guess I didn't make that clear. It takes about 30 minutes to drive around the lake from the point where the bridge would start to the point where the bridge would end. Assuming a ferry would take the same route as the bridge (or any route, really), it would be faster to drive around the north end of the lake than it would be to take a ferry, and that's excluding the wait time before boarding. It would probably take 5-15 minutes to drive across the bridge.

And also, just to play devil's advocate, the proposed bridge would've been privately funded. The cost isn't the public's concern.
Yes, but the environmental costs should definitely be the public's concern.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3554  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2011, 11:14 PM
John Martin's Avatar
John Martin John Martin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old&New View Post
Yes, but the environmental costs should definitely be the public's concern.
Well figurative costs are another issue entirely.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3555  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2011, 7:43 AM
skyguy414 skyguy414 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SLC
Posts: 306
UTA to expand service to Park City
From KSL:
"Starting in October, commuters will have a new way to travel from Summit County to the Salt Lake Valley.

The Utah Transit Authority announced Thursday the launch of a commuter bus route between Park City and Salt Lake City.

The Park City to Salt Lake City Connect service will officially begin transporting passengers on Monday, Oct. 3, and will be the first public transit connection between Salt Lake and Summit counties."

Full article:http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=17457746
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3556  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2011, 4:23 PM
i-215's Avatar
i-215 i-215 is offline
Belt Route
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SLC/Vegas/SoCal
Posts: 3,145
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrennanW View Post
I'm thinking there are a considerable number of developers backing the project so they can build out the West side of the lake on the cheap - without paying for a bridge themselves.
I could see developers paying for the bridge during the housing bubble, where there was a perception that developers could net millions and billions of dollars. But now?

I could see a developer dropping up to $25-100 million to drop a traditional road in the incite growth. But to build a 14-mile fly-over ramp? That's going to be nearly a BILLION dollars. How many centuries would it take for the developers to break even?

As sad as I am to see this project die (I loved the renderings of the bridge I saw), I have to say --- finding out the financial backers were scam artists ... well, it suddenly all makes sense.

So, could they go after state tax dollars now, as you suggest? Absolutely. But I think it's an uphill battle -- and the state transportation commission has bigger fish to fry:

- Initial build-out of the Mountain View Corridor
- Full build-out of the Mountain View Corridor
- I-15 re-construction from Draper to Lehi
- North Davis Highway (Legacy North)
- US-6 safety upgrades
- Southern and Western Parkways, St. George

Not much room on that list for a superfluous and controversial bridge, even if it is really cool looking.
__________________
Life is nicer at 70 miles per hour
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3557  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2011, 4:52 PM
arkhitektor arkhitektor is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Clearfield, UT
Posts: 1,747
I don't recall the exact numbers, but it seems their projection for the cost was in the neighborhood of $600 million. I did a quick back-of-the napkin calculation at the time and found that if you divide their cost by the entire population of Utah county, they would have to collect over $1,000 in tolls from every man, woman and child in Utah county before they even broke even. As much as I don't want to see the bridge built, I'm not too worried about it because it makes so little financial sense. Factor in the financing scheme from this week, and I'm not exactly losing sleep in fear that it will be built.

If, by some miracle, they were able to start construction, I would advocate for some pretty high bonding requirements up front so that the state wouldn't be stuck with a half-finished, abandoned bridge when the whole deal falls apart.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3558  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2011, 8:52 PM
scottharding scottharding is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 1,540
Nevermind the fact the damn bridge isn't needed. If people want brand-new houses that far from existing infrastucture, jobs, amenities, etc., they should expect a long and tedious commute.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3559  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2011, 9:32 PM
SLCdude's Avatar
SLCdude SLCdude is offline
PSU MURP student
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy414 View Post
UTA to expand service to Park City
From KSL:
"Starting in October, commuters will have a new way to travel from Summit County to the Salt Lake Valley.

The Utah Transit Authority announced Thursday the launch of a commuter bus route between Park City and Salt Lake City.

The Park City to Salt Lake City Connect service will officially begin transporting passengers on Monday, Oct. 3, and will be the first public transit connection between Salt Lake and Summit counties."

Full article:http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=17457746
It's about time!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3560  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2011, 9:33 PM
StevenF's Avatar
StevenF StevenF is online now
The Drifter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: American Fork, UT
Posts: 1,092
Question is how many work up in the Salt Lake area and will head north anyways? Then there is shopping, is it quicker to go accross a bridge to Orem or Provo, or just head north to Lehi? If most on the West side of the Lake need to go north anyways how is this going to get used. Not like many from the east side have any need to cross. Looking on Google earth, it doesn't look like the developed land goes very far south from the northern part of the lake anyways. To me at this time I can't see any real need for such a bridge at a price tag of 600 million, when only 1-2,000 will drive on it. Not like there is any recreation locations on that side of the lake to draw people over.

I don't care for the bridge at all and I know I have said a ferry would be best but at this time I don't see a real big need for either. But when the need is there I do prefer the ferry.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:15 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.