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  #1541  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2009, 6:21 AM
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Originally Posted by arkhitektor View Post
Different kind of train coming to TRAX



Will these new trains replace the old trains or just get added to the fleet.
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  #1542  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2009, 6:39 AM
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I am guessing these new trains will replace some of the used trains we bought from San Jose, CA Light rail. UTA has ordered 77 of these Siemens trains with options to buy 180 more. Those first 77 trains will all be in use by 2012.
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  #1543  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2009, 2:50 PM
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Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
!!UDOT moves forward on Mountain View Corridor!!

http://deseretnews.com/article/70529...-corridor.html

With permission from the Legislature to bond for $500 million when ground is broken for the Mountain View Corridor in western Salt Lake County, the Utah Department of Transportation is preparing to ensure construction starts next year.

Currently, UDOT is purchasing land for the road, which will run between Redwood Road north of Camp Williams to I-80, roughly between 5000 West and 5800 West. Most of the land is private and not occupied...


.

They are only building the first 10 miles .... a road to nowhere in Herriman. Wouldn't it make sense to start either in West Valley or Lehi and actually connect the highway to I-15 or SR-201?

I thought they were phasing in all 34 miles at once, with Phases 2 and 3 (bridges and widening) later. C'mon Legislature! Pony up the money!!!!

Ten miles ain't gonna do squat.


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Why do you live out there then? Why not move downtown?
Not everybody can live, want to live, or work downtown. The city sprawls west because people who live in existing areas do not sell their homes often enough to meet population growth. If you want to stop sprawl, encourage everybody living east of State Street to move in with their parents, opening a lot of housing for new buyers.

Until that happens, people will buy in areas where housing is available and often that's new construction out west.


Quote:
I rode this model of car in Portland. It's very nice to simply "walk on" to the train. Riders will really like them.
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Last edited by i-215; Mar 25, 2009 at 3:01 PM.
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  #1544  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2009, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by arkhitektor View Post
Different kind of train coming to TRAX
There is a story on KSL.com about the new Siemens light rail cars that UTA has on order. The story reads as if written to middle school students, and the commentary is so childish that I wanted to beat my head against the wall, but its KSL, so that's what you get. Anyway, nice to at least see a rendering of the new trains in UTA's colors:

I've been waiting for these trains since the day they were announced. Mainly because... I don't like seeing my breath on the trains in the winter months.
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  #1545  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2009, 4:27 PM
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I like that the new paint scheme matches the new bus and FrontRunner livery. It will really help make the system look and feel more modern.

Also, they should stop putting vinyl stickers on the windows for holidays. Seeing them has always bothered me:

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  #1546  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2009, 4:36 PM
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The San Diego trolley runs the same Siemens cars as UTA's currently got, as well as the new one's we'll be getting. Seeing them next to each other really shows how much better the new ones are going to look:

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  #1547  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2009, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by i-215 View Post
They are only building the first 10 miles .... a road to nowhere in Herriman. Wouldn't it make sense to start either in West Valley or Lehi and actually connect the highway to I-15 or SR-201?
Of course not, the State Legislators and UDOT aren't concerned with mobility, just development possibilities.
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  #1548  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2009, 8:39 PM
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I agree, Urbanboy. Although we may disagree on the mode, I think we do agree having a state legislature in the pocket of developers translates to bad planning. Even bad road planning.
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  #1549  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 4:47 AM
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Here is a little streetcar or possibly Trax proposal I whipped up. I really think this would be one of the most ideal ways to access the east bench with mass transit. What do you guys think?

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  #1550  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 5:18 AM
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Highland is a better route. I don't know why planners keep thinking they should put TRAX on major auto-centric routes.

Those are HORRIBLE places for a TRAX line. You either make an unsafe area for TRAX pedestrians boarding the train, or you have to destroy the level of service on your arterial by dropping the speed limit to 30 miles per hour, which will ruin the road for cars.

To me it's much better to put TRAX on routes just off the main drag, allowing walkable villages to form on smaller, more pedestrian streets with slower speed limits. That frees up larger streets to do what they are designed to do: move cars.

Examples of poor route choice: North Temple (use South Temple), 3500 South (use 3650 South), and University Parkway BRT (use Orem 12th South). They are all parallel streets which could make a better location for future TOD development.

I'll give a pass on 5600 West BRT, figuring the new Mountain View Corridor will function as the road's auto-centric replacement.
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  #1551  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 5:43 AM
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I like the idea of Highland but I think it would need to be a street car that can share the road with cars instead because of how narrow it is in some places. I'm also kind of curious which would be better for Ft. Union because in some places light rail is a good option, and in others the road gets pretty wide and things could get ugly for pedestrians. If it were a street car, they could run it along the outer lanes so people could board from the sidewalk.
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  #1552  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 7:18 AM
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  #1553  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 7:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhitektor View Post
Different kind of train coming to TRAX
There is a story on KSL.com about the new Siemens light rail cars that UTA has on order. The story reads as if written to middle school students, and the commentary is so childish that I wanted to beat my head against the wall, but its KSL, so that's what you get. Anyway, nice to at least see a rendering of the new trains in UTA's colors:

Wow! that's too bad, I think they are kind of UGLY. I was expecting something along the lines of these...

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=512

We're taking a step backwards as far as looks go.
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  #1554  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 11:22 AM
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I assume your looking at the lead car, and this will be the shape of the new lead cars in Salt Lake. The cars pictured above are simply the main body. It's all the same as this picture below, just the different color scheme.



I agree that the streetcar should be the choice for the East Bench. Also, Highland has a much better existing setup for it than Van Winkle. Highland would develop into a very attractive corridor with the addition of a streetcar system. The addition of more attractive residential lowrise/midrises, and 9th/9th style village cores along Highland Dr. from Sugarhouse to.....hey, even continuing through Union Park and beyond makes perfect sense to me.

I'm really getting jazzed about more and more trolleys coming to the metro. I would love to see some systems alla 'Euro style' like those we recently reviewed, in Bordeaux, France and eleswhere.


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Last edited by delts145; Mar 26, 2009 at 2:34 PM.
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  #1555  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 12:08 PM
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Taken from the: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=150074&page=8

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Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
It's networks like this one that makes me wish Philadelphians would sit up and take notice that our system SUCKS! Compliments on Utah on being ahead of the game. If the transit infrastructure expands along with city size, I think it's hardly a brash prediction on my part that the Salt Lake region is a rising Western urban center and will probably eclipse Los Angeles (whose problems go far beyond transit problems; you can't live where you can't drink--water) sometime in the next fifty years.

P.S. Drew, there is a well-known principle in transit theory why building more roads does not relieve congestion. It's called "triple convergence," and in short, it states why building more roads makes roads more congested. You might want to Google it sometime.

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Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
hammersklavier:

1. SLC deserves a lot of credit for expanding its system, but let's not get carried away. It will take them decades to match what Philadelphia already has.
Actually, it's going to take allot less than decades for the metro Wasatch to match and surpass many of the cities on this continent as far as mass transit. The prospect of the trolley's phenomenon is hitting the Salt Lake Valley portion of the metro in a big way. Yes, billions have and continue to be spent on new heavy commuter and light rail lines. However, the real kicker seems to be developing by way of the return of the Trolley. City/County leaders and the citizens in general are extremely receptive to an extensive trolley system. It is assumed that the first trolley lines should begin construction shortly in the Sugarhouse area. However, civic leaders are so giddy after their recent return from their European Trolley tour, that there is talk and planning of additional lines in various locations to follow suit as soon as physically and financially possible.

I'm not sure that cities such as Phili or many metros for that matter have the fiscal or political will to implement extensive trolley systems like Salt Lake is now enthusiastically embracing. Each group, whether it's Metro developers, residents, or political decision makers see the Trolley as both much more economical to establish and lined with $$$/profit development potential. At the same time, residents and urban planners alike love the seemingly intimate engagement of the Trolley and the village cores that they create.

It has gotten to the point where what would often be a NIMBY situation elsewhere, is a HYIMBY(Hell yes in my backyard) situation here. Recently, even with light rail, cities have even been known to squabble and compete over who gets what TRAX station along lines currently under construction

Last edited by delts145; Mar 26, 2009 at 12:45 PM.
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  #1556  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 2:05 PM
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Originally Posted by i-215 View Post
Highland is a better route. I don't know why planners keep thinking they should put TRAX on major auto-centric routes.

Those are HORRIBLE places for a TRAX line. You either make an unsafe area for TRAX pedestrians boarding the train, or you have to destroy the level of service on your arterial by dropping the speed limit to 30 miles per hour, which will ruin the road for cars.

To me it's much better to put TRAX on routes just off the main drag, allowing walkable villages to form on smaller, more pedestrian streets with slower speed limits. That frees up larger streets to do what they are designed to do: move cars.

Examples of poor route choice: North Temple (use South Temple), 3500 South (use 3650 South), and University Parkway BRT (use Orem 12th South). They are all parallel streets which could make a better location for future TOD development.

I'll give a pass on 5600 West BRT, figuring the new Mountain View Corridor will function as the road's auto-centric replacement.
S Temple does not extend as far west as N Temple. is is blocked by the utility facility. Also,the heavy rail lines run on south temple, so it is not very conducive to creating a pedestrain friendly place where people are going to want to live. And N temple really stopped being a major car street when I-80 was redone ad they added an exit to the airport. You used to have to get off at Redwood and take N Temple to the airport. N. Temple is the perfect street for light rail because of the available right of way, the number of cars that travel it and it is the backbone of the Northwest area of SLC. It also has development potential that very few places in close proximity to downtown have. In addition, it is a city owned street so UDOT is out of the question.

LRT is designed to move quickly. It does not function well as a medium distance transport when it travels slow, like it does in downtown. In downtown, Trax becomes a street car. LRt needs to be located on corridors where it can reach 35-50 mph. LRT should not be used as a short distance transporter because it is insanely expensive to build this type of system. A street car is much more economical and is better choice for short distance transport and therefore can be located on streets with speeds 35 or under.

Last edited by cololi; Mar 26, 2009 at 2:18 PM.
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  #1557  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 8:56 PM
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I was thinking about ways to open up our large blocks and here is what I came up with. I've tried to preserve historic buildings as well as align mid block streets with each other whenever possible.








Last edited by DMTower; Mar 26, 2009 at 9:07 PM.
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  #1558  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMTower View Post
Here is a little streetcar or possibly Trax proposal I whipped up. I really think this would be one of the most ideal ways to access the east bench with mass transit. What do you guys think?

I myself have thought of those exact proposals as good routes. I think it's the best solution so far.
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  #1559  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2009, 3:37 AM
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I have an insider with Salt Lake City, she said the City Council decided to go with concrete on North Temple.

I dont know if this was discussed before.
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  #1560  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2009, 5:21 AM
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Originally Posted by stevena07 View Post
I have an insider with Salt Lake City, she said the City Council decided to go with concrete on North Temple.

I dont know if this was discussed before.
We did not, but that is some great news! Money may be a tight thing right now, but that's just how the economy rolls. It goes through cycles of peaks and troughs and it'd be a shame to see such ugly track running through such a wide street. Besides, you can always plant trees later.

I'm still hoping that, in some way, the Trax line out to the airport will get the ball rolling on the airport renovation. Salt Lake International is one of few airports that doesn't have debts on their shoulders.
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