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  #41  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2008, 6:44 PM
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Last 2 comments are just crazy: Denver is a great city in its own right but does not remotely exhibit characteristics of either of the formentioned cities.
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  #42  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2008, 7:20 PM
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All interesting developments aside, I question whether the speed at which Denver is growing is sustainable. Look out, LA.
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  #43  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2008, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dktshb View Post
Last 2 comments are just crazy: Denver is a great city in its own right but does not remotely exhibit characteristics of either of the formentioned cities.
People have always compared Denver and Colorado to Switzerland. Booming Mountain towns, roof of their respective continents, majority of the population density along corridors (Lake Geneva and the Front Range). And both are at the forefront of scientific research, physics, technological research and space exploration (Boulder, Colorado and Zurich, Switzerland). Anyway, just thought that would be a better comparison than New York.

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All interesting developments aside, I question whether the speed at which Denver is growing is sustainable. Look out, LA.
That's a good question and legitimate concern. I would think that the massive mass-transit infrastructure built and being built would help to sustain growth for the next decade. beyond that from 2015-2025, to sustain growth, I think increasing the water retainment with a new reservoir and increasing the water infrastructure would be needed. There also needs to be high-speed rail service along the densely populated Front Range of Colorado. There is also a pressing and serious need for a Mag-lev line from Denver along the I-70 corridor to at least Vail.

Overall, I would think the fact that Denver is growing with infill, redevelopment and density in it's urban core accompanied with mass-transit, should bode well for sustainability. And after the last 20-years of population boom, Denver still ranks among the elite in quality of life, health and educated workforce.
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  #44  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2008, 11:35 PM
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Holy shit, one lincoln Park looks great. I left Denver last May, and they just starting the structure. I use to walk by the site everyday after work. I also liked seeing the Pearl Street Victoriana. I remember walking by when they just had a rendering on a sign infront of the property and thinking, "that is going to be one crazy looking house." What is the Pearl Street Victoriana anyways. Does it hold lofts, apartments?

Denver will probably look different to me after I go back out there in June, and that will be about one year from being gone.
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  #45  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2008, 3:30 AM
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One Lincoln Park looks even better than the rendering depicted it would look (IMO). The downtown buildup occurring is massive... With Union Station redevelopment about to kickoff, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Now the long awaited, 20-story Embassy Suits Hotel is filing for building permits. 20-story is nothing special, but it's location is. It lies on 14th Street, between the 41-story Spire (now under-construction) and the 45-story Four Seasons (also under-construction). Across the street from the Four Seasons (also on 14th Street), the 51-story 1401 Lawrence building is now well into pre-sales and should kickoff construction by December 2008. That will be one impressive wall of skyscrapers going up simultaneously. 41-story, 20-story, 45-story, 51-story.

Then 3-blocks over from the Four Seasons, on 17th Street, the 43-story Two Tabor center should be going up by years end. They are supposedly ordering the steel for this project in March. The demand for this office space is there and it's location is probably the best available in downtown. All indications is this project has a green light. The main question is, are we going to get the 38-story version, or the 43-story version of this proposal? Either one will be great, but the 43-story version will stand tall among the sea of 20-35 story buildings on this LoDo side of the CBD.

For the streetscape and urban core of downtown, the Union Station redevelopment will have more impact than anything. The downtown terminus of 5-new rail lines (in addition to the 2-existing rail lines), a BRT line and a multi-model transportation hub along with public-private partnership to develop the surrounding site with massive office, residential and retail. Union Station will emerge as the new heart of downtown. It will stimulate even more private investment into downtown Denver and make the city more livable, walkable and enjoyable to residents and tourists.

The Denver Metro area looks to add 100,000 new residents in 2008 and 500,000-700,000 new residents over the next decade. A large percentage of this growth is going to be absorbed by infill developments both downtown, as well as around transit oriented developments at the dozens of new rail stations being built along new rail lines. The departure from excessive urban sprawl and the embrace of smart growth and green technology is propelling Denver into the forefront of the green movement. So... Can Denver sustain this kind of growth? Answer... Probably better than most western cities, yes.
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  #46  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2008, 3:34 PM
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I drove throughout downtown and adjacent neighborhoods yesterday. I couldn't believe how many cranes are in and around downtown!
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  #47  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2008, 5:35 PM
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Man, I don't mean to contribute by being negative, but the Four Seasons has been Value Engineered to death... Sheesh, why even bother?
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  #48  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2008, 6:01 PM
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Man, I don't mean to contribute by being negative, but the Four Seasons has been Value Engineered to death... Sheesh, why even bother?
How so? Has it limited it's height? The thing is still suppose to be over 600 feet. Has the facade changed? Was it suppose to go LEED?
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  #49  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2008, 6:18 PM
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The design has changed big time since it was first proposed. It was much nicer looking before imo.
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  #50  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2008, 7:44 PM
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The departure from excessive urban sprawl and the embrace of smart growth and green technology is propelling Denver into the forefront of the green movement.
You can thank the mortgage crisis for temporarily slowing sprawl. The only real thing that metro denver has done to curb sprawl is to impose voluntary growth quotas on each county.

then, after doing that, we built the beltway.
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  #51  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2008, 11:16 PM
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Investment in mass-transit has been the single most valuable thing Denver has done to combat sprawl, IMO.

As far as the Four Seasons design evolution, It's gone from:

..............This (65-story).................To This (55-story).............................To This (45-story)


But I think it's facade is much better design and color now. The building's cost will still be $350 million, making it the most expensive privately built building in downtown Denver. The fact they could only get 45-stories out of $350 million, when the Spire down the street is getting 41-stories our of $185 million, should give you an idea of how pimped out this structure will be. I like the final design best, even though it's not as tall.
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  #52  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2008, 11:23 PM
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I like the final design best as well. It shows more glass integrated with the new beige color - overall nicer than the other 2. It is a shame that it isn't as tall as the other 2 though...
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  #53  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2008, 11:43 PM
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I like the final design best as well. It shows more glass integrated with the new beige color - overall nicer than the other 2. It is a shame that it isn't as tall as the other 2 though...
It seems that color will be best with the Denver skyline. It will match the Tabor center, the 1999 Boadway building, and republic plaza (which is boring white, but with the constant blue Denver sky it gives it a cool effect).
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  #54  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2008, 11:27 PM
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I personally wish they had maintained the same CROWN structure from the previous two renderings into the one actually being built, but this is my only concern. I am fine with the other properties of the tower.

The smashed down crown makes it look like the developers are cutting corners. Even though those of us who are 'in the know' realize this isn't the case, I figure they could substitute the gold bathroom fixtures for brass ones and put more into the crown. Cmon, it's 350 million! I'd rather have a pimped exterior than an interior.
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  #55  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2008, 7:25 AM
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
All interesting developments aside, I question whether the speed at which Denver is growing is sustainable. Look out, LA.
I don't mean to cause trouble, but I hope you're not talking about Los Angeles; because if you are, .....
Combine the high-rise booms of both the L.A. Downtown Rundown and L.A. Metro thread, and you will conclude that we are ahead.

Anyways, I suppose Denver reminds me of Mammoth Lakes(which is also booming with high-end resorts). Maybe the Winter Olympics aren't to far off.
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  #56  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2008, 2:49 PM
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Denver's mini-boom is not on a scale of what is going on in LA, Denver is only a quarter as big. Yet Denver's boom is eating up surface lots better than ever before.
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  #57  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2008, 6:15 PM
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I don't mean to cause trouble, but I hope you're not talking about Los Angeles; because if you are, .....
Combine the high-rise booms of both the L.A. Downtown Rundown and L.A. Metro thread, and you will conclude that we are ahead.

Anyways, I suppose Denver reminds me of Mammoth Lakes(which is also booming with high-end resorts). Maybe the Winter Olympics aren't to far off.
That is not what I mean at all. I couldn't care less about how many towers go up. All I mean is that Denver is set to double its population by 2030 (to close to 5 million). That's only 22 years away, really not that far off in the long run. And if it continues exponentially as most sunbelt cities do, then how long will it take beautiful, scenic Denver to turn into a cesspool like LA? It is not environmentally sustainable growth. I know this is a skyscraper forum, and we're all here because we all share a love or at least a fascination with them. But the argument that I am making is about people who are crazy pro growth.

Some will say, "well it's only 2% growth annually". That is an incredible rate of growth. 2% of 100 is only 2. But 2% of 1 million is 20,000. 2% of 5 million is 100,000. Every year. Do the math on what the next century will look like for Denver.

I know that no one has any control over this, and I am by no means saying that I can predict the growth will remain the same throughout the century, but I was making the comparison to LA because it took nearly no time at all before it became an enormous, unmanageable, unhealthy, unsafe, environmentally disastrous scar on the face of this earth.

My end argument is that although I am glad that a lot of this growth is in fill, soon you will be facing the problems of larger cities. I hope that Denver has the progressive thinking that I think it does, and will be a leader in the 21st, a model for other cities to follow in terms of sustainability.

It's easy to get anxious about change and growth, especially coming from a city that often gets ignored in the face of the New Yorks, and the San Frans (believe me, I'm from Michigan), but let's not lose sight here.
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  #58  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2008, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
That is not what I mean at all. I couldn't care less about how many towers go up. All I mean is that Denver is set to double its population by 2030 (to close to 5 million). That's only 22 years away, really not that far off in the long run.
I'm not sure where you got that number. Nobody locally is predicting that type of growth. The Denver Regional Council of Governments predicts a population of around 3.9 million in 2030. The State of Colorado predicts about the same number.

If you are talking about the entire Front Range - Pueblo to Fort Collins, that number is a little low.
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  #59  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2008, 6:53 PM
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
That is not what I mean at all. I couldn't care less about how many towers go up. All I mean is that Denver is set to double its population by 2030 (to close to 5 million). That's only 22 years away, really not that far off in the long run. And if it continues exponentially as most sunbelt cities do, then how long will it take beautiful, scenic Denver to turn into a cesspool like LA? It is not environmentally sustainable growth. I know this is a skyscraper forum, and we're all here because we all share a love or at least a fascination with them. But the argument that I am making is about people who are crazy pro growth.

Some will say, "well it's only 2% growth annually". That is an incredible rate of growth. 2% of 100 is only 2. But 2% of 1 million is 20,000. 2% of 5 million is 100,000. Every year. Do the math on what the next century will look like for Denver.

I know that no one has any control over this, and I am by no means saying that I can predict the growth will remain the same throughout the century, but I was making the comparison to LA because it took nearly no time at all before it became an enormous, unmanageable, unhealthy, unsafe, environmentally disastrous scar on the face of this earth.

My end argument is that although I am glad that a lot of this growth is in fill, soon you will be facing the problems of larger cities. I hope that Denver has the progressive thinking that I think it does, and will be a leader in the 21st, a model for other cities to follow in terms of sustainability.

It's easy to get anxious about change and growth, especially coming from a city that often gets ignored in the face of the New Yorks, and the San Frans (believe me, I'm from Michigan), but let's not lose sight here.
You've lost sight here Buddy. Los Angeles is not a an enormous, unmanageable, unhealthy, unsafe, environmentally disastrous scar on the face of this earth. If the Denver metro or most major metros were as big as Los Angeles' at their density levels as opposed to Los Angeles' that would be an enormous, unmanageable, unhealthy, unsafe, environmentally disastrous scar on the face of this earth.
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  #60  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2008, 6:59 PM
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As far as the Four Seasons design evolution, It's gone from:

..............This (65-story).................To This (55-story).............................To This (45-story)
Well at least for consistency sake it has remained boring and passe, so I guess there is a bright side to everything.
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