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  #21  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2017, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Does the average Canadian care {little alone know} about NAD?

I guess I should add to that question is if the average First Nation's Canadian even cares either? Seriously, you see all the politicians making speeches like they could careless but everyone knows these are just media events with politicians trying to make as much political hay as they can.

Almost everything we hear about First Nation's, which is quite frequent these days, is bad news. From murders, suicides, lack of housing and clean water, addiction, family violence, and poverty. Perhaps Canadians view it as more of a National Depression Day when the media and government try to remind us of the desperation that 3% of our population lives in and, at least subconsciously, the rest of us try to avoid.
Perhaps only you view it as national depression day. The gist of your message here is that you find Natives unsightly, and you want to sweep them under the rug. Your only thoughts about Natives is murder, suicide, violence. Nice.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2017, 2:08 AM
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For some people, it's easier to sweep something under the rug than try to fix it.

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I don't believe the Federal government can as the responsibility would fall upon the provinces. A Liberal motion recently proposed making Remembrance Day a statutory holiday and listed that it's essentially ceremonial.
The federal government can create new holidays. Canada Day is a federal holiday.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2017, 4:22 AM
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I doubt we'll ever see a new holiday that's a mere couple days from St-Jean-Baptiste. Maybe move NAD to, say, July 3rd? If we want to make it a holiday.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2017, 8:39 AM
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This thread asks if Canadians, and Aboriginal Canadians care about this "day." It claims to simply solicit a neutral opinion, but then dives right into a fairly intense negative attack of the issue. This is a typical move, made over and over again, concerning all of our social challenges.

I didn't notice this "day" at all. I too am tired of some of what our country has been up to lately regarding aboriginal problems. But bitching alone doesn't cut it. In fact, its pointless. As some others have pointed out, what matters is some real progress in solving the astounding degree of difficulty some of our people face.

My bitching point is just that. I am tired of the process. However, I am not dumb enough to equate that with the process being wrong. Sometimes, difficult things progress at a pace that is frustrating. That is no reason to stop. I put "reconciliation" in that realm. My fatigue will not make me take a negative view. It will only urge me to better understand and support concrete change for the better.

By local example, I get grumpy about native art. The fact that we use native art to clothe ourselves (in the premier's case, literally) when we want to sell BC to the world, is simply a false representation of our society. The Olympics and YVR were/are big users of this image. The two would have a visitor believe 60+% of our population was native, and that the rest was particularly uncreative and unspirited. Does this matter? Yes and no. Over the long haul, we must solve the real problems of our aboriginal citizens, and we must be a healthy society, where we are past the need (we are not presently) for affirmative actions, and are open and fair to all, such that we reflect ourselves as a total. But, right now, it is not a worthy complaint. That would be like being offended by the clothes of a homeless hungry person. Feed and house them before moving on to consider tertiary matters. I care little about the fact YVR is loaded with native art/advertising, but the new agreement with the Musqueam might prove to be a worthy effort.

So, I am most tired and bitchy about hearing anyone being tired and bitchy about anything related to our troubled fellow humans: aboriginal, mentally ill, homeless . . . Before, spending any of your effort on complaint, figure out something constructive to do. Sure there are annoying and stupid things, political and otherwise, so what, I for one don't care so long as we have communities with horrid built conditions, isolated for the want of a 5 million dollar (a guess) bridge, rife with drug and other life destroying illness, without potable water, communications, schools, medical care, opportunity! If you learn of a day, like this "day," that the government (or anyone) has set to mark anything to do with all of this, don't whine and complain, get out and collect used eyeglasses and find a way of getting them to a reserve where teenagers can't read the blackboard (if there is one).
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  #25  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2017, 1:02 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I doubt we'll ever see a new holiday that's a mere couple days from St-Jean-Baptiste. Maybe move NAD to, say, July 3rd? If we want to make it a holiday.
The whole point behind the 21st of June is that it's the summer solstice. It's grounded in a natural phenomenon, while both St-Jean-Baptiste and Canada Day are just arbitrary dates
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  #26  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2017, 1:08 PM
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St-Jean-Baptiste is also based on the summer solstice, even if it's a few days. It is celebrated in lots of countries in fact.

Also there is nothing natural about July 1 but it is a major historical date.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2017, 1:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
St-Jean-Baptiste is also based on the summer solstice, even if it's a few days. It is celebrated in lots of countries in fact.

Also there is nothing natural about July 1 but it is a major historical date.
St-Jean-Baptiste is an appropriation of the summer solstice, much like Christmas falls close to the winter solstice. Neither St John or Jesus had anything to do with these dates, they just replaced pagan celebrations.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2017, 1:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal View Post
This thread asks if Canadians, and Aboriginal Canadians care about this "day." It claims to simply solicit a neutral opinion, but then dives right into a fairly intense negative attack of the issue. This is a typical move, made over and over again, concerning all of our social challenges.

I didn't notice this "day" at all. I too am tired of some of what our country has been up to lately regarding aboriginal problems. But bitching alone doesn't cut it. In fact, its pointless. As some others have pointed out, what matters is some real progress in solving the astounding degree of difficulty some of our people face.

My bitching point is just that. I am tired of the process. However, I am not dumb enough to equate that with the process being wrong. Sometimes, difficult things progress at a pace that is frustrating. That is no reason to stop. I put "reconciliation" in that realm. My fatigue will not make me take a negative view. It will only urge me to better understand and support concrete change for the better.

By local example, I get grumpy about native art. The fact that we use native art to clothe ourselves (in the premier's case, literally) when we want to sell BC to the world, is simply a false representation of our society. The Olympics and YVR were/are big users of this image. The two would have a visitor believe 60+% of our population was native, and that the rest was particularly uncreative and unspirited. Does this matter? Yes and no. Over the long haul, we must solve the real problems of our aboriginal citizens, and we must be a healthy society, where we are past the need (we are not presently) for affirmative actions, and are open and fair to all, such that we reflect ourselves as a total. But, right now, it is not a worthy complaint. That would be like being offended by the clothes of a homeless hungry person. Feed and house them before moving on to consider tertiary matters. I care little about the fact YVR is loaded with native art/advertising, but the new agreement with the Musqueam might prove to be a worthy effort.

So, I am most tired and bitchy about hearing anyone being tired and bitchy about anything related to our troubled fellow humans: aboriginal, mentally ill, homeless . . . Before, spending any of your effort on complaint, figure out something constructive to do. Sure there are annoying and stupid things, political and otherwise, so what, I for one don't care so long as we have communities with horrid built conditions, isolated for the want of a 5 million dollar (a guess) bridge, rife with drug and other life destroying illness, without potable water, communications, schools, medical care, opportunity! If you learn of a day, like this "day," that the government (or anyone) has set to mark anything to do with all of this, don't whine and complain, get out and collect used eyeglasses and find a way of getting them to a reserve where teenagers can't read the blackboard (if there is one).
I may not be understanding your point about native art. When this non-expert thinks of BC and art, Emily Carr, Bill Reid, and totem poles are what come to mind, along with classic Haida and Coastal Salish imagery. Obviously, there's much more to it than that, but it doesn't seem "false", at least in terms of outside impressions of the BC "brand".
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  #29  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2017, 1:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
St-Jean-Baptiste is an appropriation of the summer solstice, much like Christmas falls close to the winter solstice. Neither St John or Jesus had anything to do with these dates, they just replaced pagan celebrations.
My point is that any celebration is as fake or authentic as the beholder's view of it.

I'd be in favour of another stat holiday with an aboriginal focus.

It doesn't have to be sold as incredibly more organic than the others we have in order for me to support it.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2017, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I may not be understanding your point about native art. When this non-expert thinks of BC and art, Emily Carr, Bill Reid, and totem poles are what come to mind, along with classic Haida and Coastal Salish imagery. Obviously, there's much more to it than that, but it doesn't seem "false", at least in terms of outside impressions of the BC "brand".
Well, that's exactly it. I would say that you are bang on. But, it is only false in its proportion. 90% of BC artists are not in this group, and their work is never promoted as also part of the "brand." The non-expert public has never heard of many world impacting local artists and their work.

But, like I said, until more important things are accomplished, from reconciliation to a fair share of the Canadian dream, an imbalance within things like artistic representation is not worth addressing at this time. (Except, perhaps banning premiers from wearing native garb.)
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  #31  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2017, 2:11 AM
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Most artists don't make art in the region's stereotypical cultural art styles. When most non-Japanese think of Japanese art they think of anime even though it's more than that. How is this really any different?

In Ontario, one of the creators of the Woodlands Style got his first gallery exhibit around the same time that a white girl who copied his work got her own gallery exhibit, so it could be worse.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2017, 3:04 AM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I may not be understanding your point about native art. When this non-expert thinks of BC and art, Emily Carr, Bill Reid, and totem poles are what come to mind, along with classic Haida and Coastal Salish imagery. Obviously, there's much more to it than that, but it doesn't seem "false", at least in terms of outside impressions of the BC "brand".
This is an excellent retort, but I still see Marshal's point, and I often feel the way he does.

In a previous life I was a conference organizer (though I wasn't calling the shots) and I know for a fact that when Canada hosts international conferences we still always trot out something aboriginal during gala dinners and such to impress the people from abroad.

I am not saying it's insincere but it still rings a bit hollow and fake to me. Leaves me with a feeling of... malaise.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2017, 3:06 AM
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Canadian hosts: "Come and look! These are the artistic creations of the people we oppress!!"

German delegation: "Ooooo!"

Could you imagine if Israelis started taking Palestinian things and saying they were Israeli? Oh wait, they do! We're not the only colonizer that does this. How much of Anglo-Saxon art is Celtic in origin?
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  #34  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2017, 8:37 AM
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History has long gone passed this whole debate. Our perspective is short. Things always catch themselves up and new things get out of sync. This is not only true of time, but also across geography and cultures.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 3:26 AM
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History has long gone passed this whole debate. Our perspective is short. Things always catch themselves up and new things get out of sync. This is not only true of time, but also across geography and cultures.
You're like a magic eight ball but instead of affirmative or negative answers to questions, the random result is the text of inspirational posters found in a second rate university professor's classroom.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 1:12 PM
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That took a few days - I was wondering if I was all alone!
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 6:57 PM
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How much of Anglo-Saxon art is Celtic in origin?
I suppose you meant to ask "how much of British art is Celtic in origin?"

(The answer, surprising as it might be to you, is "some"...)
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2017, 8:55 AM
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You're like a magic eight ball but instead of affirmative or negative answers to questions, the random result is the text of inspirational posters found in a second rate university professor's classroom.
But university professors, of all rates, don't have classrooms. They put their posters on their office doors, right beside the cute little cartoons.

- inspirational posters: any poster that gives one inspiration
- inspiration posters: posters intending to inspire
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  #39  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2017, 2:17 AM
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My point of this thread was not to take unnecessary jabs at each other or list all the ills that plague our Native people's.............that's been done a thousand times. My questions was, if Canadians really give a damn about NAD?

As I said, most news we hear about Natives is bad so have Canadians begun to tune out? That is certainly not the same as not caring because I'm sure the vast majority of the population genuinely cares about the misery many of our Natives live in and if there is an indifference of NAD is Canadian's increasing overload of Native news part of that?

Last edited by ssiguy; Jul 5, 2017 at 3:57 AM.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2017, 2:20 AM
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That's like asking "the fire alarm sure is annoying, is the beeping a problem?"
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