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Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 7:19 PM
Docere Docere is online now
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Toronto and Vancouver real estate

Not trying to engage in "city vs. city" but comparing apples to apples what is the difference in real estate prices between the 2 cities?

One thing I've noticed is TREB covers a wider area while Vancouver's real estate board doesn't even include Surrey.
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Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 7:52 PM
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Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 8:04 PM
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There are two big real estate boards covering Metro Vancouver: the Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver (REBGV), which includes the Cities of Vancouver, Burnaby, Richmond, New WEstminster, the entire North Shore, the entire Northeast Sector out to Maple Ridge, and part of Delta. The Fraser Valley Real Estate Board (FVREB) is everything else out to and including Abbotsford. Chilliwack east to Hope has its own Board.

Another big difference between Van & Tor is the presence of the Agricultural Land Reserve. Without it, huge swaths of farmland in the 'inner belt' of suburbs would have been developed (Richmond, Delta), and most of the next ring (Pitt Meadows, Maple Ridge, Surrey, Langley) as well.

This, coupled with the development constraints imposed by the Coast Mountains and the U.S. border, represent, I think, the primary geographic differences between Van & Tor.

There are many others, of course -- historic settlement patterns imposed by transportation barriers and bottlenecks; influence of a regional planning entity and the tension caused by it vis-a-vis the 25-or-so local government authorities, historic preference against freeway infrastructure in Van, retention of streetcar network in Tor.

Just to get the conversation started...
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Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 8:10 PM
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Are assessed values in Vancouver an accurate representation of potential sales values? Current Value Assessment in Ontario is intended to represent what the property will sell for on the open market but because of the way the assessment cycle works they are generally somewhat lower than market price. And particularly so in Toronto.

The entire province is assessed every 4 years with the last assessment in 2016 for the 2016 assessment year, and appearing on 2017 municipal property tax bills. The increase in assessment between 2016 and the previous assessment in 2012 gets phased in over 4 years. So by the time the next cycle rolls around in 2020 the property is generally "behind" in assessed value. This isn't an issue because of the way property tax works within muncipalities, but means that the assessed value isn't necessarily a useful tool to figure out home value - particularly if you are in a municipality with large increases (Toronto).

https://www.mpac.ca/PropertyOwners/F...PhaseinProgram
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Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 8:13 PM
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Ainvan: Not sure what your point is other than "Vancouver is expensive."
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Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by niwell View Post
Are assessed values in Vancouver an accurate representation of potential sales values? Current Value Assessment in Ontario is intended to represent what the property will sell for on the open market but because of the way the assessment cycle works they are generally somewhat lower than market price. And particularly so in Toronto.
They're always a lot lower. My neighbour's house was assessed for $516,000 as of July 1 2016, yet on May 31 2016 they bought it for $628,000. It's a townhouse, and there's no way it dropped that much in a month.
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Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 8:28 PM
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Although Vancouver is still sizeably more expensive than Vancouver {although that gap is certainly narrowing} the real difference is between Ontario and BC.

There are huge swaths of Southern Ontario that are very affordable bordering on cheap and within commuting distance of Toronto suburbs. In BC the entire province is grossly over valued. What is considered "affordable" in areas outside the Lower Mainland would be jaw dropping almost anywhere else in the country. In short, you can't get away from high prices in BC even in fairly remote areas unless you want to live in the middle of absolutely no where and even then the prices are still inflated.

Toronto is overpriced but it's a province wide problem in BC.
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Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 8:42 PM
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Ontario has the Greenbelt which mimics the Agriculture Land Reserve in BC does it not?

All one has to do is look at Income geared to prices, Vancouver is out of wack and has been for a long time, nothing about the market makes sense and land scarcity isn't the excuse. It is all re-cycled continuous speculation and tepid supply growth that is caused mostly homes to be worth far more than they need to. Toronto is messed up as well, but housing still has many areas that can be hitched to income levels in the general sense.
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Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 10:17 PM
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Don't buy. Rent. Unbelievably, Vancouver continues to be more affordable than Toronto.
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Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanSpice View Post
They're always a lot lower. My neighbour's house was assessed for $516,000 as of July 1 2016, yet on May 31 2016 they bought it for $628,000. It's a townhouse, and there's no way it dropped that much in a month.
Depending on the number of years between assessments, that doesn't strike me as totally out of whack in a time of rapidly rising prices.
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Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 10:51 PM
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Don't buy. Rent. Unbelievably, Vancouver continues to be more affordable than Toronto.

In the overall sense - Metro vs Metro?

I can't wrap my head around this being true.

You can find some deals out in Milton and Orangeville!

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Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 11:14 PM
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http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/07...da_a_23017645/


Quote:
Growth rate (in percentage) of the number of children aged 4 and under, Canada, provinces and territories, 2006 to 2011
http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re...l/tbl1-eng.cfm
Quebec (17.5%) has the 3rd highest growth rate after Alberta and Saskaschewan. the 2016 census will probably show the trend.

Ontario at 5% , BC at 8.8% .

high priced real estate is not good for families.
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Old Posted Jul 13, 2017, 12:36 AM
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That doesn't really explain it, IMO. Toronto's real estate was moderately high to high but manageable during most of that period.
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Old Posted Jul 13, 2017, 1:07 AM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
That doesn't really explain it, IMO. Toronto's real estate was moderately high to high but manageable during most of that period.
the median total income , in 2011, was the same , in Toronto, Montréal and Vancouver. $69k
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...il107a-eng.htm
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Old Posted Jul 13, 2017, 4:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal View Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/07...da_a_23017645/




http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re...l/tbl1-eng.cfm
Quebec (17.5%) has the 3rd highest growth rate after Alberta and Saskaschewan. the 2016 census will probably show the trend.

Ontario at 5% , BC at 8.8% .

high priced real estate is not good for families.
I am totally shocked by those numbers. I knew there was a difference between provinces but not so much. Ontario is in a baby bust.

By a longshot Quebec added more kids in sheer numbers than any other jurisdiction.
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Old Posted Jul 13, 2017, 4:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I am totally shocked by those numbers. I knew there was a difference between provinces but not so much. Ontario is in a baby bust.
Economic conditions are pretty awful right now if you're in the prime age bracket for raising small children in Canada. A lot of younger people don't have much stability because they haven't found good employment, even if they went to school and racked up student loans, and housing is extremely expensive. Here in Vancouver a lot of people simply can't afford living space in which to comfortably raise children (there are cheaper cities than Toronto and Vancouver, sure, but all of Canada is at least moderately expensive and a lot of the opportunities are in the most expensive cities). People who are 30-40 now often live like people did in their early 20's not too long ago.

Very little has been done to correct this problem. Governments have made it worse for the most part, following the wishes of older generations.

We're sort of told that immigration will help with the demographic shortfall but this is just more talk from the perspective of people who want high asset prices, lots of labour, and/or a big tax base to mooch off of. Immigration isn't helping the younger Canadian-born population much, and having a stranger move in to your city in 20 years from another country to shore up the tax base is not the same thing as being able to afford to have kids...
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Old Posted Jul 13, 2017, 12:24 PM
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/\ two of your main problems (cost of housing and cost of education) are not that relevant in Quebec, where housing is cheap (compare to the ROC) and higher education also. Affordable daycare also help.
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Old Posted Jul 13, 2017, 12:36 PM
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/\ two of your main problems (cost of housing and cost of education) are not that relevant in Quebec, where housing is cheap (compare to the ROC) and higher education also. Affordable daycare also help.
You can really see how various pro-family measures in Quebec have had an effect. Not related to housing of course but education for sure, daycares of course, but also expanded parental leave (RQAP) and also child support payments. I am way above what the max income threshold is for child support and still get 1300 bucks a year from the Quebec government. It's not much and we could do without it, but for lower and middle income echelons it can make a big difference - in some cases it may even pay for most of the kids' food.

I've had several people in Ontario tell me that that province sees children as a burden, whereas Quebec sees them as a precious resource.
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Old Posted Jul 13, 2017, 7:08 PM
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As the sad joke goes in Vancouver..............What do you call an ultrasound in Vancouver?
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Old Posted Jul 13, 2017, 7:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You can really see how various pro-family measures in Quebec have had an effect. Not related to housing of course but education for sure, daycares of course, but also expanded parental leave (RQAP) and also child support payments. I am way above what the max income threshold is for child support and still get 1300 bucks a year from the Quebec government. It's not much and we could do without it, but for lower and middle income echelons it can make a big difference - in some cases it may even pay for most of the kids' food.

I've had several people in Ontario tell me that that province sees children as a burden, whereas Quebec sees them as a precious resource.
And I've seen several articles/interviews done by altleft/SJW/environmental groups that see each new child as 9,000 metric tonnes of carbon.

http://www.alternet.org/environment/...carbon-villain
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