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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2017, 2:21 AM
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Originally Posted by khabibulin View Post
And I've seen several articles/interviews done by altleft/SJW/environmental groups that see each new child as 9,000 metric tonnes of carbon.

http://www.alternet.org/environment/...carbon-villain
Perhaps but I doubt that is what drives family related public policy in Ontario.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2017, 4:56 AM
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So will western people (particularity white people) having babies be seen as the next micro aggression according to the seemingly increasingly self-loathing far left?

I know I shouldn't say that but my Facebook feed is bombarded with Huffington Post articles and a clear trend has emerged within that publication (about as level as Fox News it seems)
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2017, 5:06 AM
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They're always a lot lower. My neighbour's house was assessed for $516,000 as of July 1 2016, yet on May 31 2016 they bought it for $628,000. It's a townhouse, and there's no way it dropped that much in a month.
Yep, my condo's assessments have always been tens of thousands below actual listings, and they always go to bidding wars well above listing price.

Even back in 2005 I had to beat five other first day offers, but luckily didn't have to go over asking, and my place has doubled in value in the last two years alone. The building was full of blue collar senior citizens who bought for five digits, but my new neighbours are young lawyers and doctors who paid at least half a million for one bedroom.

As bad as Toronto is, there's really no comparison. The high end may be close but there's no low end in Vancouver until you get so far out that commutes are impossible.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2017, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
So will western people (particularity white people) having babies be seen as the next micro aggression according to the seemingly increasingly self-loathing far left?

I know I shouldn't say that but my Facebook feed is bombarded with Huffington Post articles and a clear trend has emerged within that publication (about as level as Fox News it seems)
I have noticed this too. It is quite subtle at the moment but there if you look for it. If it continues to grow as a messaging the unfortunate result may be an increased consciousness of "white" as an identity marker among people who weren't really into that not long ago. Cynics will say they already had that (racism?) in them anyway and it just took a bit of prodding but I am not so sure. From what I gather at the moment the vast majority of white Canadians do not have "white" as an identity marker and this does not really exist as a politico-demographic grouping. I'll let people decide if they think it would be good or bad if that were to change.

I say this as a person who has no personal or cultural identity as "white". Though I do have "culturist" tendencies but these are not related to skin colour.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2017, 7:03 PM
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Van is definitely more overall, but apples to apples comparison it's hard to say. Van also doesn't have a rowhouse and semi belt like Toronto does so, so yeah the neighborhoods off Main say are more expensive but you're already into detached housing on larger lots than where you'd be an equal distance from the CBD in Toronto.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2017, 7:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal View Post
the median total income , in 2011, was the same , in Toronto, Montréal and Vancouver. $69k
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...il107a-eng.htm
Median income only tells one story. Housing between 2006 and 2011 reflected the large range of incomes in Toronto a lot better than it does now. The low end of the market has seen much larger percentage increases than the high end in the last 5 years. Houses that were $1.3 to 1.5 million around 2009/2010 are maybe $2 million now. Houses that were $250 to 300,000 are now $600,000 to $750,000. Even the badly managed, 1970s condos where family sized units were selling for as much as $120,000 five years ago are now well over $200,000.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2017, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
Don't buy. Rent. Unbelievably, Vancouver continues to be more affordable than Toronto.
That's actually quite believable if you think about it. Would you, say, find it "unbelievable" if an Australian told you that the cost of living in higher in Sydney than in Brisbane...?

I know it's not THAT simple, but at first sight, someone smart and educated who hasn't paid attention to Canada would probably guess the priciest real estate in the country (per sq ft of land) is in the heart of Toronto... same way I would guess the priciest real estate in Britain is in the heart of London.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2017, 10:17 PM
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No. Vancouver is a fair bit more expensive to buy but a fair bit cheaper to rent. I really don't know how landlords are making any money.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 5:30 AM
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I thought Vancouver was more expensive to rent..............anyone got any stats?

As I said, the problem with Vancouver is that there is no where to go anywhere in the province that is genuinely affordable. The entire province is grossly over-valued and the smaller centres of BC are still more expensive than almost any other big cities in the country save Toronto and a couple others. In short, there is no where to go to get away from the outrageous prices while in Ontario once you get out of the Toronto commuter rnge, many areas are very affordable bordering on downright cheap.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 5:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I thought Vancouver was more expensive to rent..............anyone got any stats?

As I said, the problem with Vancouver is that there is no where to go anywhere in the province that is genuinely affordable. The entire province is grossly over-valued and the smaller centres of BC are still more expensive than almost any other big cities in the country save Toronto and a couple others. In short, there is no where to go to get away from the outrageous prices while in Ontario once you get out of the Toronto commuter rnge, many areas are very affordable bordering on downright cheap.
in BC, you have the Lower Mainland and that's it. very small area.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 7:10 PM
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Well I wouldn't say that. Vancouver Island and the Okanagan have about 1.1 million between them. Again though they are incredibly expensive considering their size and not being within commuting distance of a large city. In Ontario there are a lot of alternatives to Toronto tht are large cities but not isolated with easy connections to Tor/Ott/Mon with SWO and Eastern Ont being examples.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Well I wouldn't say that. Vancouver Island and the Okanagan have about 1.1 million between them. Again though they are incredibly expensive considering their size and not being within commuting distance of a large city. In Ontario there are a lot of alternatives to Toronto tht are large cities but not isolated with easy connections to Tor/Ott/Mon with SWO and Eastern Ont being examples.
There's very little land in BC that is hospitable and can easily be developed. Vancouver Island is mostly mountains, along with the mainland. In the interior you drive for hours through narrow valleys served by expensive, winding highways. The Lower Mainland's also cut in half by the Canada-US border.

I believe we are in the middle of a big housing bubble in BC but I also think that the geography of BC is one factor that made it much, much worse than it otherwise would be. Real estate in BC is unaffordable because of geography, NIMBYism and housing regulation, low interest rates, speculation (domestic and foreign), and demographics (migration, immigration).
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 7:31 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
No. Vancouver is a fair bit more expensive to buy but a fair bit cheaper to rent. I really don't know how landlords are making any money.
A lot of landlords or would-be landlords make the lion's share of their money through the appreciation in value of their properties, not rent. Some people in this group leave their properties empty because dealing with tenants is not even worth it. When your house is going up by $300,000 a year and you might want to sell at any time it is not worth having tenants that pay $2,500 a month.

I will say that it's puzzling how a lot of people hold on to their houses for no particular reason. I know a bunch of examples like this and the owners often don't even really understand how they could make more money by selling, with less hassle. They've been landlords (usually slumlords) for years and years and they just carry on doing the same thing. They're the people who rent out the $900 a month apartments in $1.5M teardowns. They do not seem to be waiting to time the market.

It's a bit strange how the Vancouver housing bubble has made multi-millionaires out of a bunch of random people who would, umm, probably not otherwise have prospered much financially. These are not shrewd, driven investors. They're crazy cat ladies who now own $5M worth of Vancouver Specials, etc. My old landlord was a very modest guy who did odd jobs and inherited a big house from his parents. His house is worth $2M+ now. He does the same thing now he has been doing for probably 40 years, renting it out to tenants and performing dubious minimal upkeep when needed. He should probably sell it and move to a small town somewhere but I'm not sure he has the faculties to take a step back and consider his situation. He'll probably just pass his house on to his kids.

Some other people have basement suites and the like to make a bit of extra cash. They would be living in and paying for their house either way, so it seems like a net win, although I think a lot of them wouldn't be making much money if they did everything above board. For example, you're supposed to have permits for your suite and the work you do, you're supposed to pay income tax on the rental income you get, and the capital gains exemption on houses doesn't apply to the portion of your property that's used as a rental even if you live there (for a lot of Vancouverites that alone would make having tenants not worth it, but I doubt they all pay their taxes correctly).
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Last edited by someone123; Jul 15, 2017 at 7:46 PM.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 7:39 PM
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Vancouver Island and the Okanagan have about 1.1 million between them
Flat land and open spaces will provide the best environment to minimize costs. (more choices)
not a lot of flat land in BC. interconnection between cities is not ideal either.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 7:51 PM
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 7:53 PM
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For me, Montreal and Kingston would be the surprises on that list.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 7:57 PM
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not metropolitan areas, but cities.

http://www.habitation.gouv.qc.ca/fil...is/LMM2017.pdf

1 bedroom in Greater Montréal. $695
4 bedrooms GMA . $1365

Montréal and Quebec City are pretty much equal.
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Last edited by GreaterMontréal; Jul 15, 2017 at 8:10 PM.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
It's a bit strange how the Vancouver housing bubble has made multi-millionaires out of a bunch of random people who would, umm, probably not otherwise have prospered much financially. These are not shrewd, driven investors. They're crazy cat ladies who now own $5M worth of Vancouver Specials, etc. My old landlord was a very modest guy who did odd jobs and inherited a big house from his parents. His house is worth $2M+ now. He does the same thing now he has been doing for probably 40 years, renting it out to tenants and performing dubious minimal upkeep when needed. He should probably sell it and move to a small town somewhere but I'm not sure he has the faculties to take a step back and consider his situation. He'll probably just pass his house on to his kids.
Yep, my father in law is a dumb, blue collar HVAC maintenance guy type, wears overalls every day and can't figure out how to use a computer or cell phone on the most basic level, but is worth north of $30 million thanks to the bubble. He bought eight properties in Kits and Shaughnessy, worth $3-6 million each, and has rented them all out for 40+ years.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 8:49 PM
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Heh.. maybe he's not as dumb as you think he is
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  #40  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 9:57 PM
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Heh.. maybe he's not as dumb as you think he is
I imagine you've been rubbed the wrong way by that "dumb blue-collar HVAC type of guy" comment but let's face it, it's very true that dumb people can easily end up significantly wealthy.

Even in a non-bubbly market like Sherbrooke, QC I personally know a few uneducated, not-particularly-bright older people who ended up with at least a couple million in net worth just thanks to real estate. Typically, the type is construction guys with no education or culture who also are quasi-slumlords.

You really have to screw up (or take risks) to NOT end up with at the very least a couple million by the time you're old if you're in a typical market of the last half-century.

And taking risks, well, often the dumb ones don't really know or care to do such things - it requires effort and thinking. The path of least resistance is inertia/conservatism, so the trade off is that they end up less wealthy than they could have, but they statistically reliably do end up reasonably wealthy in any case.
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