Ford's attack on Toronto is good news

[lio45]

Originally Posted by niwell

It's really neat that people that aren't even in the same province - much less city - have a vested interest in this that doesn't seem to extend beyond vague feelings of spite and a pathological need to "own the libs".

This greater debate impacts us all, though. (Unelected judiciary that can err vs politicians supported by a minority of the people under Westminster-style winner-takes-all systems who can also err.)

So it's interesting to follow, even for the ones of us who are unaffected.

[O-tacular]

I'm watching this train wreck in Ontario and wondering what Jason Kenney will take away from this if (when) he is elected Premier. There could soon be a coalition of Climate Change denying, anti science, LGBTQ attacking, anti immigrant, education loathing provincial Conservative governments across the country. This worries me.

I'm glad to see there are conservatives on this board who are also worried about Ford's behaviour.

[TorontoDrew]

What's really sad is you can tell he is trying to take a page right out of Trump's alternative facts book.

1. Repeat something over so many times people start to believe he did it.
Example: Saying he said he would reduce city hall during the election when all he said was he would reduce government size. So making it sound like provincial government size not municipal during elections.

2. Make up facts and figures
example: Stating every single Ontarian and Canadian was shocked a judge could over rule an elected official.
example: Claiming he represents all of Ontario when he didn't even secure 40% of the vote.

This is all stuff the Trump does. Doug Ford is on a power trip and it's all thanks to old white voters in the 905.


If I was a conservative outside of Ontario I would be afraid of this man doing damage to your party in the future. Don't kid yourself, this college drop outs main goal is the PM's office.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

What's really sad is you can tell he is trying to take a page right out of Trump's alternative facts book.

1. Repeat something over so many times people start to believe he did it.
Example: Saying he said he would reduce city hall during the election when all he said was he would reduce government size. So making it sound like provincial government size not municipal during elections.

2. Make up facts and figures
example: Stating every single Ontarian and Canadian was shocked a judge could over rule an elected official.
example: Claiming he represents all of Ontario when he didn't even secure 40% of the vote.

This is all stuff the Trump does. Doug Ford is on a power trip and it's all thanks to old white voters in the 905.


If I was a conservative outside of Ontario I would be afraid of this man doing damage to your party in the future. Don't kid yourself, this college drop outs main goal is the PM's office.

This scares the living daylights out of me.

Why is the conservative movement on a downward spiral towards extremism? Why can't we return to the days when they were somewhat right leaning centrists?

Why are we reaching the point when the purpose of each new government is to undo whatever the previous government did, instead of building on it while maybe shifting priorities somewhat.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

What's really sad is you can tell he is trying to take a page right out of Trump's alternative facts book.

1. Repeat something over so many times people start to believe he did it.
Example: Saying he said he would reduce city hall during the election when all he said was he would reduce government size. So making it sound like provincial government size not municipal during elections.

I don't find that dishonest, personally.

If I vote for a guy who generally promises to "reduce government size" (to the point where it's a core element of his platform / a "ballot question" in that election), I won't be surprised to see him abolish school boards and force municipal mergers.

To me, "I will reduce government size" is equivalent to, and shortform for, "I will try to reduce government size as much as I believe is desirable at all levels I do control".

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by lio45

I don't find that dishonest, personally.

If I vote for a guy who generally promises to "reduce government size" (to the point where it's a core element of his platform / a "ballot question" in that election), I won't be surprised to see him abolish school boards and force municipal mergers.

To me, "I will reduce government size" is equivalent to, and shortform for, "I will try to reduce government size as much as I believe is desirable at all levels I do control".

Exactomundo. People are just nitpicking because they're salty pinko-commie feminazis *joking, sort of*

Subways! Subways! Subways!

• Video Link

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by lio45

I don't find that dishonest, personally.

If I vote for a guy who generally promises to "reduce government size" (to the point where it's a core element of his platform / a "ballot question" in that election), I won't be surprised to see him abolish school boards and force municipal mergers.

To me, "I will reduce government size" is equivalent to, and shortform for, "I will try to reduce government size as much as I believe is desirable at all levels I do control".

In pretty much the entire history of Canadian politics, when a politician has said "I want to reduce the size of government" they mean only the level of government they actually operate at. While it's true that municipalities in Canada largely operate at the whim of their respective provincial governments, it's incredibly rare that a provincial politician means shrinking municipal governments without explicitly saying it. It's subterfuge that nobody expected, which makes it dishonest.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by lio45

I don't find that dishonest, personally.

If I vote for a guy who generally promises to "reduce government size" (to the point where it's a core element of his platform / a "ballot question" in that election), I won't be surprised to see him abolish school boards and force municipal mergers.

To me, "I will reduce government size" is equivalent to, and shortform for, "I will try to reduce government size as much as I believe is desirable at all levels I do control".

It wasn't really part of his platform at all, much less a core promise. Here's his "plan for the people" from the election period: https://www.ontariopc.ca/plan_for_the_people

The slogan about "reducing government size" only became part of their talking points after election, and IIRC was only first said during Question Period. During the election campaign he in fact stated that they would not cut any government jobs. That's of course referring to the civil service, but if we're making these kinds of leaps in logic I guess you could say it would apply.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...ncial-spending

In an interview Tuesday on CBC Ottawa Morning, host Robyn Bresnahan asked Ford if he would cut public service jobs.

“No, not at all,” Ford replied. “It’s funny, Robyn, I’ve got to ask you this question. Do you think there’s not four cents on the dollar of savings in the bloated government of Ontario?”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...blic-servants/

Mr. Ford said during the election campaign that he would find $6-billion in efficiencies in government spending, and would do so without cutting any public service jobs.

[Dengler Avenue]

I just got news that people in Ottawa called on him to consider reducing the council size there too. What’s going on?!

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by lio45

I don't find that dishonest, personally.

If I vote for a guy who generally promises to "reduce government size" (to the point where it's a core element of his platform / a "ballot question" in that election), I won't be surprised to see him abolish school boards and force municipal mergers.

To me, "I will reduce government size" is equivalent to, and shortform for, "I will try to reduce government size as much as I believe is desirable at all levels I do control".

What he did was dishonest. He should have said I will be slashing Toronto's city hall. Reducing government can mean so many things, generally Queens Park doesn't interfere with City Halls, like Ottawa doesn't interfere with provincial legislatures. If you can't see that he is doing this out of spite then you really don't know how pathetic this man is. those of us who didn't vote for him was because we already saw him and his brother pull stunts like this all the time. the man can't be trusted.

This is this assholes way of being the Mayor he can never be. Everything he says is dishonest as well. I wonder how many Canadian's "he said every" side with him. He sounds just like his late brother who claimed to get thousands of calls each week telling him just how perfect he was. Never any sort of sustenance to back up their claims.

Every time I hear him talk and call us all "Folks" like we are his friends I need to change the station. At least his brother was somewhat likable, this guy is just a bully with no experience.


source: https://cdn.torontoist.com

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I just got news that people in Ottawa called on him to consider reducing the council size there too. What’s going on?!

Sounds like something DoFo might have said happened that never really did.

[mistercorporate]

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Sounds like something DoFo might have said happened that never really did.

It’d be funny though if this somehow pushes Ottawa (possibly plus Gatineau) to be its own province. IMO it’s about time.

[Docere]

Ford didn't do very well in Ottawa and the Liberal vote held up much better than elsewhere in the province.

[Acajack]

I don't put much weight into the argument that he can't do this because it wasn't explicitly stated in his platform.

An election platform gives voters an idea of what a government would do if elected, but it's not a straitjacket.

They're elected to govern as they see fit, not to follow their platform and only that to the letter.

Ford may be guilty of sleight of hand and had this Toronto "chop" in mind all along, but he wouldn't be the first one.

BTW, isn't JT's backtracking on a major, highly publicized promise (electoral reform) a lot more serious?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

The God-Given Right to Have a Bloated City Council? It's actually explicitly enshrined in there.....?

I had this reaction as well. I don't even like Doug Ford but it seems to me a big point is being missed.

People do have a right to be represented but Ontario could abolish all municipalities and run everything out of Queen's Park with MLAs and the citizens of the province would still be democratically represented.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Exactomundo. People are just nitpicking because they're salty pinko-commie feminazis *joking, sort of*

Subways! Subways! Subways!

Here was me thinking your stupidity was limited to the Stadiums thread

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

It’d be funny though if this somehow pushes Ottawa (possibly plus Gatineau) to be its own province. IMO it’s about time.

Extremely unlikely in the case of Ottawa and basically impossible for Gatineau.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I just got news that people in Ottawa called on him to consider reducing the council size there too. What’s going on?!

There is a lot of anti-Ottawa City Council sentiment within Ottawa city limits, especially among older demographics in the vast rural parts of the municipality to the west and south of the urbanized and suburbanized zone.

It has been mentioned in the past that Ottawa has 23 councillors for 950,000 people, whereas Calgary has 14 or so for 100-200k more people.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Here was me thinking your stupidity was limited to the Stadiums thread

Yeah, and you're a real genius, captain robotic, autistically uptight about every kind of minutae. You literally jump all over any post that has even an apostrophe or detail out of place. Get a life...