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  #621  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 6:36 AM
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As for the airport slowing down…on Saturday there where 2 AeroMexico B737-700 flights in and out of Hamilton and 4 AeroMexico flights in and out on Sunday. This seems to be happening every weekend and is growing. There looks like a flight on Monday and Tuesday. There also was a Pace Air B767-200 (Charter) in from Manchester on Sunday. This was not a replacement for Flyglobespan as their flight from Manchester comes in on Tuesday and the regular scheduled flights came and went on time.
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  #622  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 4:05 PM
sofasurfer sofasurfer is offline
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Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2 View Post
I would love to see either Zoom or Transat offering European flights from Hamilton. For some reason I am not fond of flyglobespan. Their planes are small and they seem to have had a number of flight problems.
I used flyglobespan a couple of years ago to come in from London (Gatwick). I wouldn't use them again, for several reasons. They also seem to be charging a LOT of money these days, compared to Thomas Cook/Transat (which I'd say are their competitors on the UK-Canada routes)

The UK carriers are definitely missing a trick! Globespan was marketing YHM as Toronto, but I think Brits would be happier if they realised it was a gateway for Toronto/Niagara (and much less hassle for fly-drive). Low-cost airlines such as Ryanair are using 'rinky-dink' airports across Europe, and so I don't think that's a huge issue for Europeans.

As for using Hamilton airport - I love it! No long walks or waits for baggage, and an easy ride down the mountain for us to our final destination

I live half way between Heathrow and Gatwick right now, and would always go for a smaller airport than a monster like LHR.

One of my favourite flights ever has to be Hamilton - St Petersburg, FL. Tiny airport to tiny airport... no hassles, and an absolute pleasure!
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  #623  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 4:40 PM
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Flyglobespan are rubbish.

We were on their inaugural flight London to Vancouver and there was a 5 hour delay at Gatwick, followed by a delay at Calgary where we were all effectively left there by Flyglobespan for 12 hours without anything other than a meal voucher for compensation, no information, no representative, nothing. Thankfully this guy at the airport, with no affiliation to Flyglobespan helped us out and eventually Flyglobespan chartered a WestJet plane to take us from Calgary to Vancouver, a very pleasant flight with very nice crew.

Our flight home two weeks later suffered a two hour delay and a grumpy italian air crew from another air line that Flyglobespan hired to crew the plane.

Never again.

Always use Canadian Affair these days
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  #624  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 5:54 PM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
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I have heard of people experiencing issues with flyglobespan. Personally, I have flown with them on a couple of occassions and had no problems with them.
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  #625  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 8:38 PM
DHLawrence DHLawrence is offline
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I think low-cost airlines are hit and miss; it either works well or it's horrible. I'd like to see more low-cost airlines avoid Pearson and use the smaller airports like YHM or YKF to approach the GTA and Horseshoe. I'd rather fly out of one of those airports than Pearson any day!
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  #626  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 8:52 PM
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DHLawrence--in this day and age, ALL airlines are hit and miss.
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  #627  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 9:12 PM
hamiltonguy hamiltonguy is offline
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On a recent flight to england i had delays of 5 hours each way, but this was on Air Canada. All it takes is the wrong plane to have mantenance issues and everything is delayed.
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  #628  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 9:32 PM
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In the past flyglobespan had Air Canada do all the ground work but this year they hired more staff to do all the ground work for themsleves so that should help improve service.

So far this year I haven't hear anything bad compared to last year's services from flyglobespan.
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  #629  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 9:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
In the past flyglobespan had Air Canada do all the ground work but this year they hired more staff to do all the ground work for themsleves so that should help improve service.

So far this year I haven't hear anything bad compared to last year's services from flyglobespan.
I think the guy who looked after us from midnight until noon during our 12 hour dump by Flyglobespan in Calgary was from Air Canada. Poor guy couldn't get any info from Flyglobespan and their rep in Vancouver couldn't be found by anyone.
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  #630  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 1:30 AM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
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some great commentary from one of the few bright spots among Hamilton's "elites":


CATCH News – July 21, 2008
Businessman says focus on underutilized industrial lands
A prominent local businessman says bayfront lands north of Barton Street are an “incredible asset” that city officials are foolish to ignore in favour of using foodlands for new industrial growth. The city offers subsides for redevelopment of brownfield sites, but is assuming that none will be used for expected employment growth over the next quarter century.
Carl Turkstra, the CEO of a Hamilton lumber company with a dozen stores and several manufacturing divisions, told councillors last month that the older industrial area along the bayfront is a “potential gold mine with enormous employment potential is being turned into a disaster zone” by misguided city policies.
“I was astounded to learn that the huge potential for employment lands in the traditional manufacturing areas of our City has been almost entirely discounted by council and its planning department,” he declared in a presentation <http://www.hamiltoncatch.org/view_article.php?id=351> to committee of the whole. “It is very hard to understand why the City would ignore its potential for industrial and commercial development in favour of undeveloped land on the edge of the City.”
Turkstra was responding to a staff recommendation <http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/5930AD96-86A2-4954-9A1F-FF704AD75494/0/Jun23PED08066a.pdf> that 1134 hectares of prime agricultural land around the airport be converted to industrial uses to accommodate expected industrial growth to 2031. While supporting airport development, he contended that the city’s focus should be on existing underutilized industrial areas.
“Why would we throw away hundreds of millions of dollars worth of good infrastructure in a well developed area that is accessible to workers, and spend hundreds of millions of dollars to duplicate this infrastructure in a remote area?” he asked.
Turkstra dismissed the brownfield label on these lands as “perjorative” and suggested that it blinded the politicians into thinking of this area as a liability. He said he had just purchased a property north of Barton and went on to list multiple advantages of re-developing this area, including transit accessibility and “exceptionally flexible zoning permitting a very large variety of uses”, something he said is very rare in southern Ontario.
“The area has a complete infrastructure of roads, water supply and sewage supply, in place,” he noted. “It is served internally by mainline railroads connecting to one of the world’s major industrial complexes stretching from Montreal to Toronto, Detroit, Buffalo, Cleveland and Pittsburgh – a population of over 120 million people. It is adjacent to a major port servicing the Great Lakes and European destinations. It has good major roads connecting to the QEW with ready access to all regional cities, the airport and major US cities.”
He also pointed to “a well established supply of electrical power, natural gas, telephone service and modern internet linkages” and land and buildings that are “very inexpensive relative to other industrial areas” with “many large underused industrial buildings, like mine, with high ceilings, cranes and loading docks ideally suited to all kinds of manufacturing. It has a good deal of land either vacant or with derelict buildings. There are dozens of for sale and for lease signs all the way from Wellington Street to Winona.”
The city has previously won accolades for its innovative ERASE program <http://www.investinhamilton.ca/brownfieldseraseprogram.asp> which assists companies to cleanup and redevelop older industrial sites. Earlier in the meeting that Turkstra address, it was reported that 103 acres of brownfields have been redeveloped over the last seven years, adding 350 jobs and $17 million in new assessment.
The brownfields coordinator, Carolynn Reid, said <http://www.hamiltoncatch.org/view_article.php?id=350> the city is currently processing applications for “well over 100 acres” of additional lands. The program is funded entirely by the increased taxes collected on the lands for ten years after redevelopment – about $6.7 million for the first 103 acres.
“We now have a brownfields office,” Reid noted. “We’ll soon have a manager who will steer this brownfields team. We have 3 people as far as staff right now.”
But she also pointed to obstacles to faster redevelopment of old industrial properties, including time-consuming cleanup regulations, and inadequate financial assistance. There are provincial and federal subsidy programs, but Reid argues they are both “totally underutilized”.
“The biggest is liability,” she emphasized. “It’s not just environmental liability issues, it’s also on a civil suit.”
“If that were to change and were somehow to pick up the long term liability,” asked Mayor Eisenberger, “would that change the uptake on the brownfield sites?”
“Definitely,” Reid replied. “The biggest part of that liability change, if it happens, is how it will affect financing and the ability for those people that can’t use their balance sheet to fund development to get funding.”
Turkstra’s presentation won applause from citizens attending the meeting, but generated no questions or comments from councillors. They proceeded to approve a resolution that “additional employment lands only be accommodated with the proposed Airport Employment Growth District only.”
In a letter <http://www.hamiltoncatch.org/download.php?id=60> received just before the meeting, provincial officials reiterated concerns <http://www.hamiltoncatch.org/view_article.php?id=344> they had raised as far back as mid-November about the assumptions city consultants and staff are utilizing to determine the amount of industrial land required.
The letter pointed out that provincial rules require that municipalities must “plant to accommodate significant amounts of both residential and employment growth in existing built-up areas.”
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  #631  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 11:17 AM
sofasurfer sofasurfer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omro View Post
grumpy italian air crew from another air line that Flyglobespan hired to crew the plane.
This was a wet-lease they had to bring in because they subleased their own 767 to Air India earlier in the year for a killing, thinking they had lots of time to source a replacement... and it didn't work out that way.

The 2 x Icelandair leased aircraft were a good 20 years old, and were nicknamed 'fireball 1 and 2' on an airline industry forum (link)

The Italian wetlease was supposed to be even worse!

They lost their ETOPS licence last year, too - I think this was safety-related...

Editorial from Inside Traveller pretty much sums it up.
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  #632  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 11:22 AM
sofasurfer sofasurfer is offline
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
In the past flyglobespan had Air Canada do all the ground work but this year they hired more staff to do all the ground work for themsleves so that should help improve service.

So far this year I haven't hear anything bad compared to last year's services from flyglobespan.
With all due respect, I don't think it was the ground staff that was the problem - it seemed to be more of a management failure at several levels (poor planning that stemmed from greed - cf leasing cockups and aircraft shortages in the first month of ops, non-existant customer service, PR nightmares from launch that weren't handled properly, culminating in losing their ETOPS).

I really didn't rate my globespan experience at all. They seem to be charging pretty much the same as AC now (definitely a LOT more than Canadian Affair), and I honestly can't see how they can justify it.
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  #633  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sofasurfer View Post
With all due respect, I don't think it was the ground staff that was the problem - it seemed to be more of a management failure at several levels (poor planning that stemmed from greed - cf leasing cockups and aircraft shortages in the first month of ops, non-existant customer service, PR nightmares from launch that weren't handled properly, culminating in losing their ETOPS).

I really didn't rate my globespan experience at all. They seem to be charging pretty much the same as AC now (definitely a LOT more than Canadian Affair), and I honestly can't see how they can justify it.
Their biggest problem last year was the amount of sales they had. They did not expect the flights to sell as well as they did, 96% full for the season. They where short one plane out of Hamilton and expected to consolidate many of the flights do to slow sales on a start up destination. That is why they scaled back this year as the only planes available at a reasonable price where the Icelandair planes. Yes there where start up problems last year out of Hamilton because it was too successful. This year they have done it differently. Their own trained staff at Hamilton. A manager in Hamilton from day 1. It was the end of July last year before they had a manager in place in Hamilton. Not as many delays and most of them have been weather related and that can happen to any airline.

As to price, it is up because they’re selling or almost selling out. The price goes up when you have less seats. It goes down when you are trying to unload seats. A few friends of mine just got back from Edinburgh. They had no elusions of what the flight was going to be like. They are season travellers and now you get what the paid for. They figured that two people went for less than one on Air Canada. They love the airport and they try to avoid Toronto as much as possible. They will even go to Buffalo. They live in Whitby on the other side of Toronto and flown many times out of Hamilton. As to delays, last winter they where going to Cuba out of Toronto with Skyservice. The flight was to leave at 7pm but the crew did not show up and the flight left around midnight getting in at 3 am. This is from a reputable airline.

As to fares, and this is last minute to London August 08 to August 23, her is what I came up with including tax.

Canadian Affair $1198.
Flyglobespan $1265.
Air Canada $1784.


$67 difference between Flyglobespan and Canadian Affair. Not enough to go to Toronto. I would have to leave much earlier and a limo or parking would cost a lot more. Parking at Hamilton is on $50.00 for the week and I could cab it there.
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  #634  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
some great commentary from one of the few bright spots among Hamilton's "elites":


CATCH News – July 21, 2008
Businessman says focus on underutilized industrial lands
A prominent local businessman says bayfront lands north of Barton Street are an “incredible asset” that city officials are foolish to ignore in favour of using foodlands for new industrial growth. The city offers subsides for redevelopment of brownfield sites, but is assuming that none will be used for expected employment growth over the next quarter century.
Carl Turkstra, the CEO of a Hamilton lumber company with a dozen stores and several manufacturing divisions, told councillors last month that the older industrial area along the bayfront is a “potential gold mine with enormous employment potential is being turned into a disaster zone” by misguided city policies.
“I was astounded to learn that the huge potential for employment lands in the traditional manufacturing areas of our City has been almost entirely discounted by council and its planning department,” he declared in a presentation <http://www.hamiltoncatch.org/view_article.php?id=351> to committee of the whole. “It is very hard to understand why the City would ignore its potential for industrial and commercial development in favour of undeveloped land on the edge of the City.”
Turkstra was responding to a staff recommendation <http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/5930AD96-86A2-4954-9A1F-FF704AD75494/0/Jun23PED08066a.pdf> that 1134 hectares of prime agricultural land around the airport be converted to industrial uses to accommodate expected industrial growth to 2031. While supporting airport development, he contended that the city’s focus should be on existing underutilized industrial areas.
“Why would we throw away hundreds of millions of dollars worth of good infrastructure in a well developed area that is accessible to workers, and spend hundreds of millions of dollars to duplicate this infrastructure in a remote area?” he asked.
Turkstra dismissed the brownfield label on these lands as “perjorative” and suggested that it blinded the politicians into thinking of this area as a liability. He said he had just purchased a property north of Barton and went on to list multiple advantages of re-developing this area, including transit accessibility and “exceptionally flexible zoning permitting a very large variety of uses”, something he said is very rare in southern Ontario.
“The area has a complete infrastructure of roads, water supply and sewage supply, in place,” he noted. “It is served internally by mainline railroads connecting to one of the world’s major industrial complexes stretching from Montreal to Toronto, Detroit, Buffalo, Cleveland and Pittsburgh – a population of over 120 million people. It is adjacent to a major port servicing the Great Lakes and European destinations. It has good major roads connecting to the QEW with ready access to all regional cities, the airport and major US cities.”
He also pointed to “a well established supply of electrical power, natural gas, telephone service and modern internet linkages” and land and buildings that are “very inexpensive relative to other industrial areas” with “many large underused industrial buildings, like mine, with high ceilings, cranes and loading docks ideally suited to all kinds of manufacturing. It has a good deal of land either vacant or with derelict buildings. There are dozens of for sale and for lease signs all the way from Wellington Street to Winona.”
The city has previously won accolades for its innovative ERASE program <http://www.investinhamilton.ca/brownfieldseraseprogram.asp> which assists companies to cleanup and redevelop older industrial sites. Earlier in the meeting that Turkstra address, it was reported that 103 acres of brownfields have been redeveloped over the last seven years, adding 350 jobs and $17 million in new assessment.
The brownfields coordinator, Carolynn Reid, said <http://www.hamiltoncatch.org/view_article.php?id=350> the city is currently processing applications for “well over 100 acres” of additional lands. The program is funded entirely by the increased taxes collected on the lands for ten years after redevelopment – about $6.7 million for the first 103 acres.
“We now have a brownfields office,” Reid noted. “We’ll soon have a manager who will steer this brownfields team. We have 3 people as far as staff right now.”
But she also pointed to obstacles to faster redevelopment of old industrial properties, including time-consuming cleanup regulations, and inadequate financial assistance. There are provincial and federal subsidy programs, but Reid argues they are both “totally underutilized”.
“The biggest is liability,” she emphasized. “It’s not just environmental liability issues, it’s also on a civil suit.”
“If that were to change and were somehow to pick up the long term liability,” asked Mayor Eisenberger, “would that change the uptake on the brownfield sites?”
“Definitely,” Reid replied. “The biggest part of that liability change, if it happens, is how it will affect financing and the ability for those people that can’t use their balance sheet to fund development to get funding.”
Turkstra’s presentation won applause from citizens attending the meeting, but generated no questions or comments from councillors. They proceeded to approve a resolution that “additional employment lands only be accommodated with the proposed Airport Employment Growth District only.”
In a letter <http://www.hamiltoncatch.org/download.php?id=60> received just before the meeting, provincial officials reiterated concerns <http://www.hamiltoncatch.org/view_article.php?id=344> they had raised as far back as mid-November about the assumptions city consultants and staff are utilizing to determine the amount of industrial land required.
The letter pointed out that provincial rules require that municipalities must “plant to accommodate significant amounts of both residential and employment growth in existing built-up areas.”
This was an interesting read, but I think it also illustrates the difficulty with the redevelopment of the brownfields. If you are a company that wants to set up a new operation that is not heavy industrial quickly, why would you want to locate to a property that requires extensive and time consuming environmental cleanup and be faced with potential liability issues.

I think the quote "There are dozens of for sale and for lease signs all the way from Wellington Street to Winona" is illustrative that there is plenty of supply, but few are buying, due to the issues above, as well as the fact that manufacturing in Ontario is in decline.

Cleaning up the brownlands is going to be a 25 to 30 year process (at least) where individual properties will need to receive federal and provincial funding to have them remediated completely to remove environmental issues. For CATCH to say that there should be no other lands available when the brownfields are still sitting there, is misguided. They should be lobbying the feds and the province to pour more money into brownfield remediation. Hamilton is not an island. Companies can easily go to a surrounding, competing municipality.
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  #635  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 7:40 PM
DHLawrence DHLawrence is offline
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Originally Posted by LikeHamilton View Post
As to fares, and this is last minute to London August 08 to August 23, her is what I came up with including tax.

Canadian Affair $1198.
Flyglobespan $1265.
Air Canada $1784.
If those are the fares, how are they getting away with advertising three-digit fares from Hamiton to London?
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  #636  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 7:55 PM
sofasurfer sofasurfer is offline
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LikeHamilton - I think we'll have to agree to differ about FlyGlobespan!

I admire your loyalty to their YHM operations for the coming year, but they did themselves no favours whatsoever in terms of (lack of) customer service. And I do think losing one's ETOPS licence is a pretty serious issue(!)

Interesting to see how your fare quotes compared. I think it's a little unfair to compare last-minute TATL fares between charter/LCCs and scheduled carriers, as the former can (at least, in my experience) discount heavily.

I've been looking at fares for getting my mum over for a visit in late October, and Globespan have been coming out consistently more expensive than Canadian Affair and Air Canada. To be fair, Globespan appear to stop running LGW-YHM at the end of October, so for the sake of a better comparison, I've got quotes (including all taxes, fuel surcharges, etc) for dates all the carriers are running (out weds 8th, back tues 21st October):

CA: £318
AC: £438
GS: £504

The dates I'm seriously considering are a bit later on (after GS stops its LGW-YHM ops), but Canadian Affair are coming out even cheaper (out Fri 17th Oct, back Tue 4th Nov) - £248 inclusive(!)

Just out of curiousity, I've had a quick look for the cheapest fares FlyGlobespan are offering. Best I could find are 10th-23rd Sep, £363.50 - 12th-24th on Canadian Affair (Thomas Cook both ways) is £318... about $90 difference.
(for comparison, BA/AC are coming up around the £435 mark for the same dates)

Maybe FlyGlobespan are offering more attractive fares for Canada-UK roundtrips?
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  #637  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 8:01 PM
sofasurfer sofasurfer is offline
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Originally Posted by DHLawrence View Post
If those are the fares, how are they getting away with advertising three-digit fares from Hamiton to London?
I'd guess by not including taxes and fuel surchages when advertising their headline fares.

To be fair, Globespan's fuel surchages were only £40 on the itemised quotes I've just been looking at - which seems a lot lower than some of their competitors. But it really does annoy me when airlines quote fares that aren't inclusive. Recently in the UK, the ad regulators have been trying to stop this and ensure transparency and fairness in advertised flight prices. No idea if you have this in Canada...?
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  #638  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 8:06 PM
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Globespan's price for the week we're going late Oct is about 50 pounds more than Canadian Affair's. And we are flying the cheapest days in the last two weeks of Oct.

The only advantage of having flown with Globespan would have been arriving closer to Hamilton than Toronto.

But after our Globespan experience in the past, the family won't fly with them.
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  #639  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 8:15 PM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
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DHLawrence, these are the fares for the specific dates that drpgq entered. I just did a search on flyglobespan using a Sept 23 departure, returning October 11, and total fares including taxes came in at $868 (Boeing 757-200). Similar dates returned a $768 price on Canadian Affair (on a Air Transat Airbus 310) and $1165.94 on Air Canada (boeing 777-300)

All airlines are notorious for advertising the lowest available fare and exclude taxes from the amount.

Omro, I understand your family's position. One bad experience can turn a traveller off an airline for life. Years ago I booked Air Transat Toronto-to-Dublin direct flight. It took 20 hours and three planes to get us there. I haven't flown AT since, and likely never will.
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  #640  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 8:50 PM
sofasurfer sofasurfer is offline
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Originally Posted by markbarbera View Post

All airlines are notorious for advertising the lowest available fare and exclude taxes from the amount.
Not for much longer - in Europe, at least...

(a fair few UK airlines already do this, btw)
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