The Existential thread

[scryer]

Ok, as I thought, it was American politics that were causing worry.

Again, turn off the TV and get off the internet for a while. It will do you good.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Not exactly, people here are just as polarized about it, so it's driving a wedge between the small minded Trump people and progressives.

Anyone who claims that the politics going on in the U.S. right now has no bearing on us as Canadians must live in a bubble. There's one bloated, blond, lard ass, Biff Tannen wannabe who is now Premier of our largest province that proves we are just as susceptible to Trump style populism as the Americans are.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

In his case even if he did what he's accused of, it wouldn't be "above the law" for him to get his juvenile record expunged upon becoming an adult.

Out of curiosity, you don't think one of the morals of this story is "don't wait over 35 years before speaking up, because by then the evidence might have vanished and witnesses and testimonies may be less reliable"?

Unfortunately for those who have been through traumatic events (particularly sexual assault or abuse) the emotional damage it does is so great that it can take decades to feel brave enough to come forward if not to piece together the memories of the event. Statistically many people block out the memories well into adulthood (as I did). Dr. Blasey Ford also had another common reason not to come forward: the fear of not being believed and the fear of her life being torn apart by defenders of the accused. If you look at the mindset of society in the 80's victims were hardly ever believed. Not to mention Kavanaugh's mom was a big league prosecutor.

Not that we're much better today when the President of the United States openly mocks a victim of sexual assault at a rally to the cheers and laughter of his depraved orcs.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Anyone who claims that the politics going on in the U.S. right now has no bearing on us as Canadians must live in a bubble. There's one bloated, blond, lard ass, Biff Tannen wannabe who is now Premier of our largest province that proves we are just as susceptible to Trump style populism as the Americans are.

Yeah but it does not matter materially to Canada if the US gets a conservative known-possible-sex-offender supreme court justice or a conservative unknown-sex-offender-status supreme court justice. Or at least it's unclear how anybody can use this to predict differences in voting patterns. Maybe Bretty Kavanaugh is really secretly a rapist but also loves Canada. Who knows?

You can choose to get upset about the injustice of this and even bring yourself to tears as some people have done, but is this good from a mental health perspective? Even if your sole concern in live is to help with sexual harrassment, surely there are more productive things you could be doing. Most people who are making a huge deal out of this are not sincerely interested in justice, they just don't like Republicans.

I second (or third..?) the "turn off the news" position. The sun will still rise tomorrow whether or not you tune in to hysterical American news media.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

Much less than all the planet-destroying stuff currently going on in China, India, Africa, and everywhere else.

WhatAboutism 101.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I was dog-sitting for my friend J. and a dragonfly got into the house from the veranda. It did one quick buzz around the kitchen, hit a window, and immediately dropped to the windowsill on its back, legs curled, motionless. It gave up, accepted its fate. Immediately.

I got a screwdriver (only thing I could find, and touched its legs with it, and it clung on - brought it outside, and it flew away best kind. But it just immediately gave up when the first way out it saw didn't work. I recognized myself in it, , and even telling J. about it - she interrupted as soon as I said what the dragonfly did and shouted, "THAT'S WHAT I FEEL ABOUT YOU SOMETIMES!"

So, a bit of fatalist. "So, I guess this is what's happening now." Absolutely zero desire to ever have kids, ever. I cannot tolerate more than 10 minutes or so around children. I'm not as bad as that missus from the meme ("It's ONE banana, how much could it cost? $10?), but kind of close to Homer ("I have three kids and no money, why can't I have no kids and three money?").

I think that makes it easier. I did end up either being an angry asshole or crying listening to Newfoundland folk music I despise basically every other night when I lived away. I was much more existentially challenged then.

But things are best kind now. I'm truly, deeply, completely contented. As for the world... everything ends eventually. Enjoy it while you can.

That story is kind of beautiful. It actually helped my mood. Thank you for sharing it.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Congratulations!

We went through a pregnancy during the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks and of course the fallout and hysteria from those attacks.

It's a bit disconcerting but my advice would be: don't sweat it.

Everything is gonna be alright. Seriously.

Yeah, those were crazy times. Thanks for the advice.

[SignalHillHiker]

The Conservative Party of Canada, which is for now the main voice of Canada's right-wing, definitely sees America's Republican Party as inspiration more than warning. So it'll end up coming here, to some extent, and modified in unpredictable ways.

However, by necessity and geopolitics, Canadians aren't quite as ignorant of the world as Americans. They never could be because they're adjacent to a major foreign influence (America), so they are always aware there are other countries and a big wide world. Canadians are as likely to become pure Trump supporters as Luxembourgers.

So we'll always have that. Even the most isolated community in Newfoundland, pick one without roads - Francois - still today gets tourists from around the world, and traditionally fish harvesters, sealers, whalers, etc. You can't get the type of ignorant hick here that you can in Mississippi - you just can't. There's too much interaction with the outside world, even in isolated towns of a few dozen. Canada, because it is so overshadowed by America on its doorstep, has a similar phenomenon.

So the impact won't be the same as in America, and it won't be as strongly... blind to prevailing human opinion... but Trump is just a symptom of politics becoming a tribal bloodsport, where you are the party you were born into, and winning is the most important thing. Republicans today would vote for Hitler if it meant making the Supreme Court conservative. They don't even see liberals as fellow countrymen, barely human. That type of thing can easily come to Canada. We've had something similar for years regarding francophone separatists, Aboriginal peoples in the West, etc.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Doug

He hasn't been charged with anything.....yet. Also, sexual abuse cases are unlikely to involve the Supreme Court. Roe vs. Wade is a red herring. In over 40 years, Conservative judges haven't touched it.

No, but they can let it die by diverting authority to states and by supporting cuts to funding of Planned Parenthood.

If social media hadn't ramped up the Cuture Wars, the Republicans could have backed down from the nomination. Under open warfare, both sides have no incentive to compromise or reverse course.

If anyone is responsible for dirty warfare it is Mitch McConnell. Remember Merrick Garland? 2 years to election was too close, but a month from election there should be no problem provided it's a conservative judge.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Doug

What policies on cross border pollution? I assume you mean greenhouse gas emissions, which is not a cross border issue. The challenge with climate change is that any attempt to restrict emissions in one country simply shifts emissions to some other country.

No, he's actually ruled in favour of corporations being able to emit harmful air pollutants that affect people with asthma across State lines.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by scryer

Ok, as I thought, it was American politics that were causing worry.

Again, turn off the TV and get off the internet for a while. It will do you good.

Canadian politics are equally troubling. Doug Ford and Jason Kenney are holding a "Fuck the Planet" rally tomorrow in Calgary.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

The Conservative Party of Canada, which is for now the main voice of Canada's right-wing, definitely sees America's Republican Party as inspiration more than warning. So it'll end up coming here, to some extent, and modified in unpredictable ways.

That is my fear.

However, by necessity and geopolitics, Canadians aren't quite as ignorant of the world as Americans. They never could be because they're adjacent to a major foreign influence (America), so they are always aware there are other countries and a big wide world. Canadians are as likely to become pure Trump supporters as Luxembourgers.

I know several people who are loud and boorish Trump supporters. They are identical to the Trump rally Republicans down south.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I know several people who are loud and boorish Trump supporters. They are identical to the Trump rally Republicans down south.

Oh, me too. But come on, they're not winning an election here outside of the usual pockets - AB and the 905.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Oh, me too. But come on, they're not winning an election here outside of the usual pockets - AB and the 905.

I'd hope not. But with First Past The Post you never know.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

WhatAboutism 101.

Whataboutism isn't always logically invalid. If you seem obsessed with [small environmental damage in foreign land] it's natural to direct your attention to [large environmental damage in foreign land] and point out your priorities seem misbalanced.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

The Conservative Party of Canada, which is for now the main voice of Canada's right-wing, definitely sees America's Republican Party as inspiration more than warning. So it'll end up coming here, to some extent, and modified in unpredictable ways.

I travel to the US frequently. I spend a lot of time in Vancouver and Seattle, two cities only a couple hundred km apart that should be very similar. The political conversations I have in Seattle are markedly different from here. There's a much larger contingent of religious people, survivalists/gun nuts, pro-military (in a "world police" or "I worked as a mercenary in Iraq" sense), and hardcore libertarians.

If you want statistics for this, look up religion in the two countries. Evangelicals make up a much larger percentage of the population in the US and non-religious people make up a much smaller percentage.

[O-tacular]

Delete

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Unfortunately for those who have been through traumatic events (particularly sexual assault or abuse) the emotional damage it does is so great that it can take decades to feel brave enough to come forward if not to piece together the memories of the event. Statistically many people block out the memories well into adulthood (as I did). Dr. Blasey Ford also had another common reason not to come forward: the fear of not being believed and the fear of her life being torn apart by defenders of the accused. If you look at the mindset of society in the 80's victims were hardly ever believed. Not to mention Kavanaugh's mom was a big league prosecutor.

Not that we're much better today when the President of the United States openly mocks a victim of sexual assault at a rally to the cheers and laughter of his depraved orcs.

Generally speaking, if it takes one "decades" to build a coherent memory of some past event, it's a safe bet those memories won't be very reliable.

Memories kind of rewrite themselves every time we remember them. It's perfectly possible to create false memories over time through progressive alteration... without even realizing it.

All things considered, I can't see "wait 40 years, then go public with your best memory of the facts" to be good advice compared to either "speak up as soon as you get a chance" or "decide to stay silent, try to bury the memories and move on".

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

Generally speaking, if it takes one "decades" to build a coherent memory of some past event, it's a safe bet those memories won't be very reliable.

Memories kind of rewrite themselves every time we remember them. It's perfectly possible to create false memories over time through progressive alteration... without even realizing it.

All things considered, I can't see "wait 40 years, then go public with your best memory of the facts" to be good advice compared to either "speak up as soon as you get a chance" or "decide to stay silent, try to bury the memories and move on".

Her memory was not shaky. She was 100% certain it was Brett Kavanaugh. Can you remember the address of a house party you went to in highschool? Does that disqualify any memory you have of attending it? People nit picking ridiculous details while ignoring the substance of her testimony is an insidious form of denial.

As for memories of trauma let me tell you that some details are fuzzy but the physical memory is rock solid. It exists in you like an open wound. When my memories of the actual molestation came back I re-lived it. I had physical reactions to the memory. I also re-lived the out of body experience. The details of time and place and people involved were all corroborated later on by my parents, real estate records and my neighbours.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

Memories kind of rewrite themselves every time we remember them. It's perfectly possible to create false memories over time through progressive alteration... without even realizing it.

All things considered, I can't see "wait 40 years, then go public with your best memory of the facts" to be good advice compared to either "speak up as soon as you get a chance" or "decide to stay silent, try to bury the memories and move on".

The amount of weight given to eyewitness testimony, particularly on events from decades ago, seems completely crazy to me.

The reality of what happened in a private gathering 40 years ago is basically unknowable at this point unless there was some kind of contemporary recording.

This is a good reason for having a statute of limitations. Time causes evidence to degrade.