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  #201  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2013, 11:57 AM
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OMG! This guy's not a NIMBY!

Quote:
City ‘digging’ future transit as work starts on downtown LRT

By Kelly Roche ,Ottawa Sun

First posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 06:21 PM EDT | Updated: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 09:25 PM EDT

A lot of beeps and bangs were heard on Albert St. near Bronson Ave. Wednesday as underground work took place on Ottawa’s downtown light rail tunnel.

“Can’t hear you — too much construction here,” joked Ches Croft, who lives in a nearby apartment.

Blasting, he said, has been ongoing for months at Cathedral Hill, a new luxury condominium.

“Since there’s so much construction going on ... we’re unaware of what boom goes to what project.”

Preparatory work started this week for the excavation of the western tunnel entrance of Ottawa’s new Confederation Line light rail transit project.

It’s the first step as crews get ready for tunnelling from this location east under Queen St.

Construction is scheduled to take up to one month.

Residents need not worry, as work will wrap up during the week by 6 p.m.

Indeed, light rail construction has been “respectful of the 9 to 5,” Croft said.

Near Commissioner St., crews will be installing a temporary wall to support the ground around the future tunnel entrance by driving piles — long, vertical steel beams — and/or concrete foundations into the ground.

Naturally, this will be heard blocks away.

The Rideau Transit Group is working to keep noise to a minimum and the city’s bylaw department will be monitoring for compliance.

Bluesfest won’t be hampered for residents, according to the city.

Croft praised the city for effectively communicating with residents about construction-related matters.

“Between the fire engines and the police cars, which dominates the area, the construction is minor,” said Croft.

This project is the first stage in the light rail transit network, creating a 12.5-km light rail system between Tunney’s Pasture in the west to Blair station in the east.

“Needless to say, when they go underground, it’s going to get a little more exciting,” said Croft.

The Confederation Line is a $2.13 billion project funded by all three levels of government.

The route includes 13 stations and a 2.5-km tunnel that will alleviate congestion through the downtown core, and will be completed in 2018.

For details, visit confederationline.ca

kelly.roche@sunmedia.ca
http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/07/10/...n-downtown-lrt
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  #202  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2013, 4:43 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Downtown doesn't seem to have too many NIMBYs of that sense - except Diane Holmes.
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  #203  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2013, 4:49 PM
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Downtown doesn't seem to have too many NIMBYs of that sense - except Diane Holmes.
I don't know; I've heard a lot of people shocked! to hear proposals of new high rise condos that will one day block their view. Or that one who was never going to sleep again because of the bright lights of the Convention Centre Art Wall.
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  #204  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2013, 5:54 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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This guy sees the light at the end of the tunnel (no pun intended).
He know that there has to be some construction but understands that it's worth it to have a fast, convenient LRT system (which is a lot less intrusive and noisy than the 123102938012 buses we have now).

*this seems to be something the western residents can't seem to understand. The LRT will be far less intrusive and a lot more convenient and quiet than the buses! WAKE UP!
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  #205  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2013, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
This guy sees the light at the end of the tunnel (no pun intended).
He know that there has to be some construction but understands that it's worth it to have a fast, convenient LRT system (which is a lot less intrusive and noisy than the 123102938012 buses we have now).

*this seems to be something the western residents can't seem to understand. The LRT will be far less intrusive and a lot more convenient and quiet than the buses! WAKE UP!
It's refreshing to see someone who can see the benefits of these large city building projects. Hats off to this guy.
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  #206  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2013, 2:47 AM
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I don't want to stereotype people by neighbourhood, but as a general rule of thumb, downtown residents are less NIMBYish than other inner city people. I think it's because people who live downtown understand that they're at the very heart of the city and it's going to get noisy and busy at times. As opposed to people in Westboro, the Glebe, etc. who view their communities as residential neighbourhoods.
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  #207  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2013, 5:50 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
This guy sees the light at the end of the tunnel (no pun intended).
He know that there has to be some construction but understands that it's worth it to have a fast, convenient LRT system (which is a lot less intrusive and noisy than the 123102938012 buses we have now).

*this seems to be something the western residents can't seem to understand. The LRT will be far less intrusive and a lot more convenient and quiet than the buses! WAKE UP!
But they are HERITAGE buses for all Canadians!
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  #208  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2013, 5:51 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
I don't want to stereotype people by neighbourhood, but as a general rule of thumb, downtown residents are less NIMBYish than other inner city people. I think it's because people who live downtown understand that they're at the very heart of the city and it's going to get noisy and busy at times. As opposed to people in Westboro, the Glebe, etc. who view their communities as residential neighbourhoods.
I think the level of resident NIMBYism is roughly inversely proportional to distance from the Peace Tower.

I say "resident" NIMBYism, because you do have exceptions like freakouts about the Daly Site, etc., but those tend to be driving by non-residents of the area in question.
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  #209  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2013, 8:11 AM
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Quote:
But they are HERITAGE buses for all Canadians!
Not to mention the HERITAGE transitway and the HERITAGE concrete boxes and the HERITAGE freeways and the HERITAGE big box stores.
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  #210  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Not to mention the HERITAGE transitway and the HERITAGE concrete boxes and the HERITAGE freeways and the HERITAGE big box stores.
Don't forget the HERITAGE potholes and the HERITAGE grass!
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  #211  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2013, 12:18 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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Let's not forget.. We need to save the city from shadows and we have to make sure that a giraffe could have a peak of the Peace Tower from Baseline... (or so it seems) -____-
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  #212  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2013, 1:37 PM
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
Let's not forget.. We need to save the city from shadows and we have to make sure that a giraffe could have a peak of the Peace Tower from Baseline... (or so it seems) -____-
Hey that's mean, don't call Diane Holmes a giraffe!!
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  #213  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2013, 6:27 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Don't forget the HERITAGE potholes and the HERITAGE grass!
A Capital for All Canadians.™ This way, even suburbanites from Fort Saskatchewan or Sillery will feel at home.
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  #214  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2013, 7:47 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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Is anybody else as annoyed as I am about how glacially slow this project is moving and how FAR behind Ottawa is in public transportation?

I was reading about public transportation in other canadian cities and couldn't believe that:

1) Calgary (a city of comparable size to Ottawa) began construction on its C-Train in 1978, that's 35 years BEFORE Ottawa and Calgary had 505,000 residents at that time. NOW, Calgary already has 56km of Light Rail and 44 stations!

2) Kitcher/Waterloo (with a combined population of 477,000) will also have its own LRT system! The first phase will be 15km and host 18 stations. Construction is bound to start in 2014 and finish in 2017.

So can anyone explain why Ottawa is JUST starting now with faster/more reliable public transportation and even in 2017 will only have 1 line; 12.5km and 13 stations?... So disappointed
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  #215  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2013, 1:31 AM
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2018.
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  #216  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2013, 1:38 AM
NOWINYOW NOWINYOW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
Is anybody else as annoyed as I am about how glacially slow this project is moving and how FAR behind Ottawa is in public transportation?

I was reading about public transportation in other canadian cities and couldn't believe that:

1) Calgary (a city of comparable size to Ottawa) began construction on its C-Train in 1978, that's 35 years BEFORE Ottawa and Calgary had 505,000 residents at that time. NOW, Calgary already has 56km of Light Rail and 44 stations!

2) Kitcher/Waterloo (with a combined population of 477,000) will also have its own LRT system! The first phase will be 15km and host 18 stations. Construction is bound to start in 2014 and finish in 2017.

So can anyone explain why Ottawa is JUST starting now with faster/more reliable public transportation and even in 2017 will only have 1 line; 12.5km and 13 stations?... So disappointed
When Jim Durrell was mayor, he wanted to go ahead with an underground tunnel for the BRT. One big reason why LRT never went ahead in Ottawa was the lack of an efficient way to get through the downtown core.

I'd suggest that the NIMBYism (and NCC) currently plaguing the western portion (LeBreton west to Carling/Lincoln Fields area) was in full force back in the BRT development stages as well.

It's going to be well over a decade before the LRT is sufficient for the needs of people west of the downtown core. Local bus transfer onto to BRT transfer onto LRT to get downtown VS one express bus now.

The tunnel should have been built 20 years ago, even if it was (at the time) for BRT.

20 years ago, the city should have started route planning and construction for the western leg instead of getting by with the parkway.

We're way behind other cities and will remain that way for many years to come.
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  #217  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2013, 2:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
Is anybody else as annoyed as I am about how glacially slow this project is moving and how FAR behind Ottawa is in public transportation?

I was reading about public transportation in other canadian cities and couldn't believe that:

1) Calgary (a city of comparable size to Ottawa) began construction on its C-Train in 1978, that's 35 years BEFORE Ottawa and Calgary had 505,000 residents at that time. NOW, Calgary already has 56km of Light Rail and 44 stations!

2) Kitcher/Waterloo (with a combined population of 477,000) will also have its own LRT system! The first phase will be 15km and host 18 stations. Construction is bound to start in 2014 and finish in 2017.

So can anyone explain why Ottawa is JUST starting now with faster/more reliable public transportation and even in 2017 will only have 1 line; 12.5km and 13 stations?... So disappointed
What NOWINYOW said. Also, again reflecting part of what was previously said, they had plans for a bus tunnel under the Byron strip but it was "delayed" while we used the Parkway as a "temporary" route. If you haven't noticed, the word "temporary" has a very loose definition in this city.

Calgary might have built it's LRT to compete with Edmonton.

As for Kitchener-Waterloo, there are two things to keep in mind;

1. It is an LRT system in its purest form; it will run at grade in mixed traffic. Ottawa has to invest more money on shorter phases for a true, grade separated rapid transit.

2. Kitchener-Waterloo has special treatment from the Ontario government. Anything served by GOld transit feels the Midas touch of Toronto (keep in mind the lrt system has nothing to do with GO transit, but the area is served by GO trains headed to Toronto). The project 790 million dollars, the feds are paying 160 million and the province is paying 2/3 (526 million dollars) for a total of 86% funding. That only leaves 104 million to be paid by Kitchener-Waterloo.

Ottawa on the other hand has a 2.1 billion dollar project, reflective of our need to bury transit under the city, only has 600 million from each level of government, so 57 % funding leaving us with 900 million coming out of municipal pockets.

Quote:
No sooner had Waterloo approved the LRT line, but local Cambridge MP Gary Goodyear announced that Ottawa would contribute $160-million to the project whose total estimated cost is $790-million. This took Regional Chair Ken Seiling completely by surprise. Support also came from Kitchener MP Stephen Woodworth who pointed out that this money will come from the “Build Canada Fund”, not the “Stimulus Fund” and therefore the project is not constrained by the latter’s March 2011 cutoff.

Meanwhile, the Liberal MPP for Kitchener, John Milloy, announced that Queen’s Park will provide two-thirds funding for this project. If you do the math, this leaves Waterloo Region with a comparatively small cost, roughly 1/6 of the total. The project also has support from local Conservative MPP Elizabeth Witmer. Bipartisan enthusiasm for transit is a refreshing change from Toronto where transit projects are used to score political points by the right wing of Council.
http://stevemunro.ca/?p=2316
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  #218  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2013, 3:38 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Edmonton opened their LRT line in 1978 for the Commonwealth Games. Calgary opened the C-Train in 1981. Oil Royalties during the late 1970s oil boom funded the two projects.

Ottawa was punished for their decision in 2006 and this is why the funding arrangement for Ottawa is less favourable than in Toronto and Kitchener-Waterloo. So, it really cost us more than the $100 million in direct costs lost. It is telling how our local Conservative MPs have given no more than luke warm support.
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  #219  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2013, 1:10 PM
p_xavier p_xavier is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Edmonton opened their LRT line in 1978 for the Commonwealth Games. Calgary opened the C-Train in 1981. Oil Royalties during the late 1970s oil boom funded the two projects.

Ottawa was punished for their decision in 2006 and this is why the funding arrangement for Ottawa is less favourable than in Toronto and Kitchener-Waterloo. So, it really cost us more than the $100 million in direct costs lost. It is telling how our local Conservative MPs have given no more than luke warm support.
Remember that the council in 2006 wanted to keep the Barrhaven leg but McGuinty said it's all or nothing. It was a short sighted decision from him also. The LRT should have been built in 2006 without the core segment.
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  #220  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2013, 1:45 PM
NOWINYOW NOWINYOW is offline
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Remember that the council in 2006 wanted to keep the Barrhaven leg but McGuinty said it's all or nothing. It was a short sighted decision from him also. The LRT should have been built in 2006 without the core segment.
Which somewhat defends my position that LRT should not be built until all the pieces are in place. The BRT routes, from the beginning, should have been built. Including the downtown tunnel and the section from LeBreton to Lincoln Fields area. Once complete it would have been one or two years of traffic hell as buses are removed and tracks laid down. But just one or two years.

No single extension of a BRT route would have impeded buses from using existing BRT while portions were built out.

As it stands now, portions of the BRT will be shut for buses for track addition from Campus to Blair. Then the process will need to be repeated again for Lincoln Fields to Baseline, Baseline to Barrhaven, Queensway/Woodroffe to Bayshore, Bayshore to Kanata, Blair to Orleans and Hurdman to South Keys.

Moot point. Now the city will be experiencing construction/reconstruction upheaval in sections for decades. Transit users will be doing multiple transfers between buses/trains unnecessarily.
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