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  #7101  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2018, 9:25 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craneSpotter View Post
Air Canada Rouge is operating seasonal non-stop service from YCD to YYZ from June to October, 4x per week. They are using an Airbus A319, which requires 3000-5000' of runway at mean sea level under ideal conditions (dry/little wind) - depending on load - ie 5000' is with maximum load.. Interesting that a 787-8 requires a similar runway length (B787-8 / 4,400ft - 5,000ft - MLW).

Rule of thumb - IIRC - is that an aircraft requires ~7% more runway length for each 1000' (~300m) rise in elevation from mean sea level.
You're talking about landing distances.

Landing distances required for commercial jets are usually shorter than takeoff distances.

Rouge has some A319s at 70t MTOW and some at 75.5t. All of the frames have CFM56 engines.

A 70t Rouge A319, in ISA conditions, needs about 5,500 ft of runway to takeoff at full load.

A 75.5 t A319 needs around 7,000 ft of runway at MTOW.

YCD-YYZ is less than 1,900 nm, and operates with a tailwind. So an A319 would be nowhere near MTOW.

Hence why the 6,600ft runway is more than enough for the A319 to YYZ.
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  #7102  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2018, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
You're talking about landing distances.

Landing distances required for commercial jets are usually shorter than takeoff distances.

Rouge has some A319s at 70t MTOW and some at 75.5t. All of the frames have CFM56 engines.

A 70t Rouge A319, in ISA conditions, needs about 5,500 ft of runway to takeoff at full load.

A 75.5 t A319 needs around 7,000 ft of runway at MTOW.

YCD-YYZ is less than 1,900 nm, and operates with a tailwind. So an A319 would be nowhere near MTOW.

Hence why the 6,600ft runway is more than enough for the A319 to YYZ.
So presumably, an A319 would be doable on YYZ-YQL.
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  #7103  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2018, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by chris View Post
So presumably, an A319 would be doable on YYZ-YQL.
Yes
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  #7104  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2018, 10:29 PM
craneSpotter craneSpotter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
You're talking about landing distances.

Landing distances required for commercial jets are usually shorter than takeoff distances.

Rouge has some A319s at 70t MTOW and some at 75.5t. All of the frames have CFM56 engines.

A 70t Rouge A319, in ISA conditions, needs about 5,500 ft of runway to takeoff at full load.

A 75.5 t A319 needs around 7,000 ft of runway at MTOW.

YCD-YYZ is less than 1,900 nm, and operates with a tailwind. So an A319 would be nowhere near MTOW.

Hence why the 6,600ft runway is more than enough for the A319 to YYZ.
Thanks for the clarification! I imagine there would be a factor of safety used as well?
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  #7105  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2018, 6:42 PM
Lugnut Lugnut is offline
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Region of Waterloo bought 200 acres in planning for an expansion at YKF
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  #7106  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2018, 11:40 PM
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^ Any word on what is planning to be expanded? Is it a longer runway or more apron/hangar space?
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  #7107  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2018, 11:42 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
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Originally Posted by DrNest View Post
^ Any word on what is planning to be expanded? Is it a longer runway or more apron/hangar space?
It's for a longer crosswind runway -- someday. No expansion is imminent.

Last edited by kwoldtimer; Nov 20, 2018 at 12:11 AM.
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  #7108  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2018, 12:25 AM
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That makes sense. The main runway is long enough for the type of commercial carriers that will use CYKF. Having a longer crosswind runway for the times winds are gusting strongly would be good future planning
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  #7109  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2018, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DrNest View Post
That makes sense. The main runway is long enough for the type of commercial carriers that will use CYKF. Having a longer crosswind runway for the times winds are gusting strongly would be good future planning
Yes, the main runway is 2130m, while at present the shorter runway is only 1250m. Iirc, the airport bought a farm at the other end of this shorter runway in the past year.
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  #7110  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2018, 1:17 PM
Lugnut Lugnut is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
It's for a longer crosswind runway -- someday. No expansion is imminent.
This is the somewhat frustrating thing. They WILL need it, so they got the land, which is smart, but the impatient part of me wants them to do it now.
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  #7111  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2018, 1:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Yes, the main runway is 2130m, while at present the shorter runway is only 1250m. Iirc, the airport bought a farm at the other end of this shorter runway in the past year.
I think this is the 2nd big purchase of theirs.
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  #7112  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2018, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
That's an old looking plane, glad nobody was killed and the the Lobsters got to their destination alright.
It was a 747-400 so not that old.
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  #7113  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2018, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by lubicon View Post
It was a 747-400 so not that old.
To be clear, the aircraft was a purpose built 747-400 Cargo version. The cargo version didn't have the extended upper deck like the passenger version. Therefore to the untrained eye, it would appear the aircraft was a 100 or 200 version that is much older.
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  #7114  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2018, 7:36 AM
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I just found this:

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...19-AC_CA-1.jpg

I guess more change are coming from AC?

Which daily to LHR will be cancelled?

Last edited by nname; Nov 21, 2018 at 7:49 AM.
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  #7115  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2018, 7:57 AM
zahav zahav is offline
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I don't know how to read that form, what is it saying exactly? That a 777 flight is being cancelled or added? It says YYZ on there, and aren't they the only ones operating a 777 on that route?
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  #7116  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2018, 8:01 AM
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Originally Posted by zahav View Post
I don't know how to read that form, what is it saying exactly? That a 777 flight is being cancelled or added? It says YYZ on there, and aren't they the only ones operating a 777 on that route?
Pretty much means AC gives a 1050 arrival and 1400 departure slot to CA.
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  #7117  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2018, 3:21 PM
whywhyzee whywhyzee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nname View Post
I just found this:

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...19-AC_CA-1.jpg

I guess more change are coming from AC?

Which daily to LHR will be cancelled?
None to be cancelled, AC is getting a new slot pair from LH to replace the one going to CA.
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  #7118  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2018, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zahav View Post
I don't know how to read that form, what is it saying exactly? That a 777 flight is being cancelled or added? It says YYZ on there, and aren't they the only ones operating a 777 on that route?
Like nname says, Air Canada are trading one of the slots at Heathrow to Air China.
British Airways operate a 777 on the LHR-YYZ route, albeit the slightly smaller B772 as opposed to Air Canada's B77W.
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  #7119  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2018, 4:24 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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AC swaps slots at LHR all the time.

Winter 2018 swaps:

AC and CZ

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...-W18-AC_CZ.jpg

AC and CA

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...-W18-AC_CA.jpg

Summer 2018 swaps:

AC and VS

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...-S18-VS_AC.jpg

AC and OS

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...-S18-AC_OS.jpg

For summer 2019, there are no less than 13 airline swaps at LHR (so far). 2 of them involve AC.

Here is a complete list.

https://www.acl-uk.org/completed-trades/

Last edited by thenoflyzone; Nov 21, 2018 at 4:38 PM.
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  #7120  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2018, 6:25 PM
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Originally Posted by whywhyzee View Post
None to be cancelled, AC is getting a new slot pair from LH to replace the one going to CA.
Ohhh didn't realized "Air C" meant "Air Canada"

Well, that makes sense... but schedule adjustment still need to be made though. Current flight time doesn't match these new slots it seems.
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