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  #61  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2007, 6:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riise View Post
Crappy F.A. or not, we need the infrastructure! It's complete horse shit that due to there only being two indoor facilities I have to play games at 10:00 at night while the city is shitting out arenas like they eat a box of bran cereal a day.
First off the city is not shitting out arenas. Other than Max Bell there is no other ice surface currently under construction. There are several others under consideration (Centennial, COP) but they have not been approved yet nor has the money been found to build them. The city is currently 8-10 ice surface's short as it stands and we lost 2 arenas this past winter.

My kids play out of Bowness and our arena was shut down this winter due to a mechanical problem. I went to a meeting last week regarding the fixing of the problem and Dale Hodges was there. He stated that the next Leisure Centre the city will build will be in the NE (Saddleridge I think) and it will have soccer facilities rather than hockey. The next one planned after that will be in NW Calgary just east of the Royal Oak shopping centre and will contain 2 more ice surfaces.
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  #62  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2007, 7:50 PM
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Originally Posted by lubicon View Post
The next one planned after that will be in NW Calgary just east of the Royal Oak shopping centre and will contain 2 more ice surfaces.
That's too bad. That area is one of the few naturally treed bits of land in this city. We even had a moose family wander in last year.
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  #63  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2007, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Distill3d View Post
f**king McMahon...
I concur! Fucking wankers! But none the less, Go Stamps Go!

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Originally Posted by Beltliner View Post
--in previous incarnations of professional footy, however, a soccer-specific facility scalable over the long term to MLS specifications might be a better fit--perhaps as part of the eventual redevelopment of the GSL site.
I feel like a newb, what is the GSL site? I think I might know what it is. If so, you nad I are thinking about the same location which is a really nice location for a new stadia!

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Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
Typically, support for soccer in Calgary, despite the Boomers, Kickers, Storm, Mustangs, et. al meeting their demise has actually been quite good. I remember when the Storm were in the playoffs, it was standing room only at Foothills, it was packed.

These teams failed typically for four reasons, poor ownership, fly-by-night league, shunning by media, and poor stadia. I love watching soccer, but I have to admit, watching it at Foothills and McMahon was painful
You should add a fifth reason:

5. Lack of people, especially those high up in the hierarchy knowing a thing about football. Hence the lack of proper organization and structure.

We need to take a page from Australia's book. The state of the game down under was a hell of a lot better than it is up here, and their Football Association wasn't that bad. However, they did away with the F.A. and formed a new Federation. I truly believe that a partnership of numerous National Football Associations, such as the English, Dutch, Swedish, Czech, Brazilian, and Australian, should work with the Canadian Government on a study to form a new Canadian F.A. and path for the game in Canada. However, that requires vision...

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Originally Posted by lubicon View Post
First off the city is not shitting out arenas.
Maybe my wording was a bit harsh but their is a massive sporting bias in the city. In the last 15 years the city has only built two Indoor Soccer Facilities and the strain on them is massive! How much has been built and planned for hockey in that time?

Personally, I think the Calgary Minor Soccer Association should move away from Indoor Soccer and embrace Futsal. It's an indoor variation of outdoor football that is played on gym floors and without arena style boards. The game could be played in the hundreds of gyms the city already has and better yet, the game is actually better for skills development than indoor soccer! However, this change would require a knowledge of the game and foresight...
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  #64  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2007, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Riise View Post
I feel like a newb, what is the GSL site? I think I might know what it is. If so, you nad I are thinking about the same location which is a really nice location for a new stadia!
The GSL Chev City dealership is what's sitting smack in the middle of the West Park concept area from the Centre City Plan (2007:65)--fifth page of the PDF. Just west of the Greyhound depot and across from the Sunalta LRT station.

There's no statutory provision for a pitch on that spot, but if that's where you had it in mind to put your Jamaica project, it would be a peach of a location with a great river view.
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  #65  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2007, 4:17 AM
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Originally Posted by freeweed View Post
That's too bad. That area is one of the few naturally treed bits of land in this city. We even had a moose family wander in last year.

I agree... build shit where there's ugly, bald, rolling hills... leave what few trees this city has alone!
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  #66  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2007, 4:35 AM
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calgary and edmonton both recently had reasonably high level soccer franchises...both were short lived.

the goldeyes in winnipeg are definately popular, but for the most part people like to go to the ballpark...it isnt really a die hard love for baseball.

Canwest Global Park, home of the Winnipeg Goldeyes of the Northern League (independent AA)
opened in 1999, seats 7000.

the Goldeyes have had for the past number of years, the highest attendance among all 58 teams in the six independent leagues and
higher than 13 of the 30 teams playing AAA baseball.








a decent ballpark in calgary would greatly increase interest in the sport, i think....both alberta cities have far more baseball history than winnipeg (AAA franchises) and it has become the place to be here because of the ambiance of the ballpark...it is just a nice way to spend a summer evening.

maybe losing AAA baseball affects the attendance for the present team....like the moose in winnipeg after the jets left...the downgrade in leagues made most people turn off.

Northern League Attendance Average

Winnipeg 6,504
Kansas City 5,852
Joliet 4,334
Schaumburg 4,268
Fargo-Moorhead 3,736
Gary 3,399
Edmonton 1,436
Calgary 1,088
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  #67  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2007, 4:43 AM
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What's funny is that KC often sees as many people at its independent minor league game as at the Royals' latest snoozer.

There's something to be said for a bunch of guys making less than they'd make at Timmy's, just trying to make a living at something they enjoy.

And yeah, for everyone bemoaning baseball in Calgary, you HAVE to check out Winnipeg's park. It's an amazing facility, and full most nights. Helps that their summer nights stay above +5, though.
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  #68  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2007, 5:11 AM
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^And Hu's on First...not a bad place to eat and watch the game (go early though)..
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  #69  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2007, 10:58 PM
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It is quite the situation that we are in here in Calgary. With the popularity of both soccer and hockey it seems to have pitted the two sports against each other which is unfortunate.

Soccer is HUGELY popular in this city, as is hockey. I am not at liberty to talk about hockey, but I will say that we NEED new arenas. As a teacher it kills me when grade 5 kids come to class tired because they had a 5 am hockey practice. We need arenas. That being said, soccer need fields, both indoor and outdoor. Calgary recently lost a major youth level outdoor soccer tournament to edmonton because of the low quality of outdoor surfaces. I would suggest that this is largely because many of our fields are shared by soccer and football. Seriously, our outdoor fields suck. I have played at a high level of soccer for some time now (Youth, Varisity and Club) in fact my competitive career was ended playing on a shitty field at Shouldice (torn MCL) so this accounts for my bitterness.

in addition to this we need indoor fields. I was choked when the partnership between the UofC and CMSA was broken off...that facility planned for the west campus would have been something else. The new bubble is a wasted investment. Good for the time being but iti is built on city land a nd will be torn down when that land comes up for development. Futsall is a good alternative, but I have trouble seeing it catchin on here. One would be surprised at the number of gyms in the city that don't allow soccer to be played.

....I have to leave work for the day so I will continue my thoughts later!

sorry
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  #70  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2007, 2:57 PM
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Nice shot of Winnepeg! Thy've got a nice looking DT. NIce looking Ballpark too! I also like the location, it's great to have near DT. and or other central areas! And people think a nice ballpark in DT Calgary would be a waist!! It would add some energy to the whole area IMO!!

Last edited by bob1954; Apr 15, 2007 at 3:12 PM. Reason: make some changes
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  #71  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2007, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by walli View Post
Well ... if it is FIFA approved, I would hope they would have tried to get one of the games here! My suspicion is that the field was not up to snuff.
From what I understand the Field Turf itself was not the issue but the crown or drainage hump in the middle of the field was too high
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  #72  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2007, 8:39 PM
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One little pipe dream I had was for a new football stadium for the Stamps to be incorporated into the "Bridges" redevelopment after the General Hospital was Blown up.
I would be agreeable to a new ballpark in the downtown area as well - bus barns, east village, GSL would all be good choices. But again, using east village land for a ball park doesn't likely make economic sense.
My hope would be that any new stadium remains "open air" - nothing better than a Stamps game.
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  #73  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2007, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Innersoul1 View Post
It is quite the situation that we are in here in Calgary. With the popularity of both soccer and hockey it seems to have pitted the two sports against each other which is unfortunate.

Soccer is HUGELY popular in this city, as is hockey. I am not at liberty to talk about hockey, but I will say that we NEED new arenas. As a teacher it kills me when grade 5 kids come to class tired because they had a 5 am hockey practice. We need arenas. That being said, soccer need fields, both indoor and outdoor. Calgary recently lost a major youth level outdoor soccer tournament to edmonton because of the low quality of outdoor surfaces. I would suggest that this is largely because many of our fields are shared by soccer and football. Seriously, our outdoor fields suck. I have played at a high level of soccer for some time now (Youth, Varisity and Club) in fact my competitive career was ended playing on a shitty field at Shouldice (torn MCL) so this accounts for my bitterness.

in addition to this we need indoor fields. I was choked when the partnership between the UofC and CMSA was broken off...that facility planned for the west campus would have been something else. The new bubble is a wasted investment. Good for the time being but iti is built on city land a nd will be torn down when that land comes up for development. Futsall is a good alternative, but I have trouble seeing it catchin on here. One would be surprised at the number of gyms in the city that don't allow soccer to be played.

....I have to leave work for the day so I will continue my thoughts later!

sorry
Sorry for my lengthy delay in continuing this.

As many of you have pointed out, although soccer is popular at the youth level, it has yet to catch on at a professional or semi professional level across most of the country. Exceptions certainly lie in markets such as Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal. It really is a shame that Calgary franchises such as the Kickers, Mustangs and Storm never really went anywhere or did anything. I think for the most part that we could garner enough support to have 10,000 spectators watch games. BUT we have been plauged in Calgary by a lack of suitabel stadia to support the sport. REALLY, when you think of it we don't have one field in the city that would be suitable to really support a franchise and its fans (the ones that come to mind are Glenmore, Foothills and Broadview and all of these are marginal.).

Calgary really does need a soccer specific stadium. One might say that we don't have a team so why bother putting one up? But given the number of major tournaments, and events that this city has forfeited it really would be a boost to, not only the sport, but the profile of the city.

Here is what I would like to see as far as a SSS for Calgary:

1) Stadium Capacity of 10,000-15,000 with room for expansion
2) Tight seating (ie seating snug to the field) for an intimate feeling
3) The seating areas should be covered
4) Press boxes
5) Some luxury boxes or space for expansion for the purpose of luxury boxes.
6) A FIFA 2-Star Field Turf installation
I will go into some detail on this further on.
7) A possible partnership with the UofC Soccer program

Let me start by saying that I am NOT a fan of Toronto's new BMO field. Personally, for the cost incurred to build this stadium I think that it looks pretty cheap compared to some of the new MSL stadia (70 million). I don't like that the main grandstand isn't covered. This is our national stadium and it is really MARGINAL! I like that there are press boxes and views are nice but it really is nothing special. I am torn witht he filedturf installation. This being the national facility grass would have been nice but I recognize the costs associated with this.

I think that BMO would be better suited for Calgary


I don't think that Calgary's stadium should be too large, mainly because of costs and the fact that it will not support a city team at this time. Room for expansion is a must. I like the idea of tight/snug seating so that every seat in the house is a good one. It was one of the things I hated about watching the Mustangs at McMahon, it really felt like an airplane hanger, not atmospher. Press boxes are a must and Luxury boxes would be a nice option and room to make more of them is a must. If this stadium and any future soccer franchises are to be successful then we need corporations to buy in. Luxury boxes are a great way to accomodate this.

The biggest thing is that this stadium MUST have a FIFA 2 star turf installation. Grass is just not viable in this city especially with our wonky climate. The cost to maintain such a field would be crazy. FIFA 2 star Turf is the only turf that Fifa will allow sanctioned games to be played on. It undegoes rigourous testing to meet Fifa's certification. So as pointed out, McMahon didn't opt for a field with the painted on lines possibly because of the costs to put in a true 2-star installation. CONCACAF now has 5 official 2-star installations and they are ALL in Canada (BMO Field is the newest addition). For more on 2 star installations please see the following links:

http://www.fifa.com/en/development/p...1350,9,00.html

http://www.fifa.com/documents/static...IFA-guideM.pdf

I think that having a partnership with the University of Calgary would and could be beneficial. However, if this was to happen, the filed should be SS and used by the men's and women's varsity teams for games and practices. It can be said that this partnership might be bad as well a-la the Stampeders and McMahon, but at least at this point some of the costs would be absorbed.

Let me conclude by saying that a Canadian soccer league is viable, just not in the near future. I think that all attempts for a domestic league have been marginal ones. Cities need to buy in, this means having SSS that can support teams and make watching the sport interesting and comfortable Pushing the focus from large markets to some of the smaller ones may be a good way of doing this but not a necessity. Team in Victoria, Vancouver, Kelowna, Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Quebec City, Halifax and St. John's would be nice (obvioiusly some more Ontario teams could be added). But this demands commitment from all the cities involved.


Lastly, here is a link to the thread on BMO field from SSC. There is a good discussion on the stadium itself along with a domestic Canadian league. Be sure to see the discussion on pg 5 of Stadia that look way better than the one in TO and built for less

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=405215


Sorry about all of the Spelling mistakes.=
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  #74  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2007, 5:59 PM
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^^ excellent and thoughtful comments, Innersoul1.

With respect to your suggestion about it being affiliated with the UofC (and I agree), would not the current McMahon site be appropriate (IE when a McMahon replacement is built perhaps at firepark or the GSL lands)? It might even be possible to re-use some of the infrastructure there.
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  #75  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2007, 6:22 PM
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Cheers mate!

Yeah, if and when a redevelopment takes place that would be a fine location. Even a redevelopment of the athletic fields at Foothills. If the project is done with the UofC i suspect that they would like something close to the campus, I don't think that the West campus is a good choice as it would be serviced soley by car as the university LRT is far away. I loved when SAIT did their expansion, they incorperated the soccer pitch in the middle of the campus. That really invited loitering students to enjoy games. i like the idea of the GSL site BUT I would prefer seeing that developed for something else. I think that if you were to put in a stadium there the site would be quite bogged down by parking. It is nice that the 10th St LRT is close though (especially with future expansion).

If the project is done with the UofC i suspect that they would like something close to the campus, I don't think that the West campus is a good choice as it would be serviced soley by car as the university LRT is far away. I loved when SAIT did their expansion, they incorperated the soccer pitch in the middle of the campus. That really invited loitering students to enjoy games.
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  #76  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2007, 6:24 PM
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...would not the current McMahon site be appropriate (IE when a McMahon replacement is built perhaps at firepark or the GSL lands)? It might even be possible to re-use some of the infrastructure there.
If memory serves, the Stampeders' owners (Forzani, Hellard, et alia) have a medium-term plan to expand skybox seating across the top 18 rows of the existing McMahon Stadium structure to lower overall capacity to about 30,000. Their first order of business seems to be to replace the locker room at the south end of the stadium, and to build a south concourse linking the two grandstands. Getting all this past the U of C and the McMahon Stadium Society will be the fun part, of course....

Over the long term, I suppose it would be possible to tack about 10,000 seats of club and upper-deck seating over each grandstand, though chances are you'd need even more skybox revenue to make that project even halfway affordable. The advantage to McMahon is that it's there, and that they actually built things to last in 1960.
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  #77  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2007, 6:28 PM
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The advantage to McMahon is that it's there, and that they actually built things to last in 1960.
Yeah - something it shares with the former Berlin Wall.

That fact that something is there and is built to last, doesn't mean it should remain!
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  #78  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2007, 6:38 PM
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Don't see McMahon going anywhere anytime soon. I agree that new boxes need to be added and the south concourse would be fantastic. It would be great if they could somehow widen the councourses, they are just sooooo packed. The dressing rooms are horrible. I have played 3 city championship football games there and couldn't believe that a CFL dressign room could look so bad (actually the visitors dressing room at the saddledome is pretty bad also).

Would be nice is some sort of roof covering the seating areas could be added.

And for Jesus Mary and Joseph, we need the city to allow big outdoor concerts there!
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  #79  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2007, 6:44 PM
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Yeah - something it shares with the former Berlin Wall.
The other, more pertinent advantage that I neglected to identify in my prior posting is that the McMahon Stadium site combines a central, transit-accessible location with a facility that even with a theoretically-feasible expansion would still be surrounded with the space to accommodate tailgating and other game-day activities. F-Troop were ridden out of town on a rail partly because they wanted mondo concessions to start a stadium site from scratch in some Bogforsaken inaccessible location out by the airport. If Foothills Stadium weren't a decrepit firetrap one hairy eyeball away from collapse, I'd suggest an onsite upgrade there as well, but rebuilding a ballpark on the bus-barn site, much like constructing an MLS-grade pitch on the GSL lands, would to my mind in any event allow for the establishment of intimate venues that would at the very least reinforce urban densification and create streetscapes for the resurgence of a downtown-area population.

I would suggest performing arts centres, but my pop took me to Cats once, and the actors backstage were all drunk, and....
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  #80  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2007, 6:49 PM
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The other, more pertinent advantage that I neglected to identify in my prior posting is that the McMahon Stadium site combines a central, transit-accessible location with a facility that even with a theoretically-feasible expansion would still be surrounded with the space to accommodate tailgating and other game-day activities.
Of course, sites such as Firepark and the GSL lands also would provide existing or planned direct access to LRT, and central / accessible locations.

The part many of the McMahon supports fail to highlight is the limited events that are hosted there, precisely because of the facility limitations or the location. Think of concerts and various international events. How many days out of the year is McMahon used? How does that compare to, lets say, Commonwealth? What use is tailgate space when you only use the darn thing a dozen times a year?
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