Hamilton Harbour or Burlington Bay?

realcity · #1 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 1:43 PM**

Perhaps I'm being too sensitive but the name of the body of water beyond the Skyway Bridge should be called 'Hamilton Harbour'. I'm not sure exactly when but a some point in recent history it started being called Burlington Bay. I've heard the CBC call it that and even read the Spectator once refer to it as Burlington Bay.

I'd also like the word 'Burlington' removed from the Skyway Bridge name. The sign reads, "James N Allen Skyway Bridge". If a city is going to be attached to the name of the bridge I think it should be Hamilton.

raisethehammer · #2 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 1:48 PM**

it's what Burlington and the GTA always do - attach their name to something that isn't theirs.
Burlington has done jack squat throughout history yet tries to take credit for the RBG, Skyway Bridge, Hamilton Harbour etc.... just keep building your lame sprawl and highways and big box stores.
The real city-building has been done by Hamilton. Just be thankful we don't charge tolls to get into our city or you'd have no choice but to spend the rest of your lives wandering malls and box store parking lots.

realcity · #3 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 1:58 PM**

I agree. I forgot about RBG. 70% of the RBG is in Hamilton. We just have such low self-esteem that we don't fight over these names, Burlington Bay, Burlington Skyway, Burlington RBG, next Burlington McMaster University.

this is funny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burlington_Skyway_Bridge
someone is on a mission to make sure the name "Burlington" is on the bridge. Trying to keep a big blob of noplace on the map I suppose. Or maybe they think it gives Burlington some character.

realcity · #4 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 2:03 PM**

Don't forget the "Burlington Center for Inland Waters" that is located off Eastport drive in the heart of Hamilton's industry.

I can remember first hearing about the Federal Institution called the "Centre for Inland Waters" being located in Burlington. I remember wondering "where in Burlington is that?" When I finally realized where it was, I was wondering why the heck say it's in Burlington? The entire country has far more awareness of Hamilton then Burlington, wouldn't it help to identify where it's located if they said "in Hamilton"? besides it's more in Hamilton then Burlington.

realcity · #5 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 2:05 PM**

Another good one is... Eastgate Square in "Stoney Creek".... The Creek's actual border lies two blocks east of Centennial.

beanmedic · #6 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 2:13 PM**

I remember hearing that if you want to build a dock in the water behind your lakefront house in burlington you need a city of hamilton permit. That should settle it, if it's true.

beanmedic · #7 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 2:20 PM**

Somebody needs to fix this wikipedia garbage

hamiltonguy · #8 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 2:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by realcity

Another good one is... Eastgate Square in "Stoney Creek".... The Creek's actual border lies two blocks east of Centennial.

Actually the southeast corner of Eastgate is in Stoney Creek.

Stoney Creek's Border is just West of Centennial to just north of Queenston where it jogs east two blocks as you say.

It's quite funny looking at the Map seeing just less than a quarter of East Gate being in Stoney Creek.

the dude · #9 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 3:10 PM**

ya, the harbour's waters are entirely within the city of hamilton. incidentally, i prefer hamilton bay. the first settlers to the area thought lake geneva suited it better.

raisethehammer · #10 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 3:12 PM**

[QUOTE=realcity;3464069]I agree. I forgot about RBG. 70% of the RBG is in Hamilton. We just have such low self-esteem that we don't fight over these names, Burlington Bay, Burlington Skyway, Burlington RBG, next Burlington McMaster University.

actually, you've got it backwards...we don't need to fight over stuff like this because we KNOW who built the RBG, Skyway and whose city the harbour is.
Burlington has no image or self-esteem and the best things about their region happen to be ours!

raisethehammer · #11 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 3:14 PM**

one more thing...city of Hamilton OWNS LaSalle Park and boat launch. Aldershot was always supposed to be a part of Hamilton until the TO-centric government in the 70's pried it away from us.

HAMRetrofit · #12 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 4:22 PM**

I have never heard of Burlington Bay before.

realcity · #13 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 5:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamiltonguy

Actually the southeast corner of Eastgate is in Stoney Creek.

Stoney Creek's Border is just West of Centennial to just north of Queenston where it jogs east two blocks as you say.

It's quite funny looking at the Map seeing just less than a quarter of East Gate being in Stoney Creek.

that's incorrect. Stoney Creek is 662 and 664 exchanges the Centennial corridor is 578

The (old) border extends down Highway 20 until King street then heads east to Lake Ave north to Barton then East yet again all the way to Gray Road (which by the way the morons in SC call "Grays") then north to the Lake.

Those apartment complexes at Lake and Barton area were under the old Hamilton Housing Authority. There was a citizen uproar from the east side residents of Lake Avenue Road (the Stoney Creek) because Hamilton was building 'geared to income' high-rises on the very fringe of the City of Hamilton.

RePinion · #14 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 5:58 PM**

Burlington Bay is the harbour's original name. It is not simply a case of Burlington having staked claim to the name. I believe it remains the "official" name, but Transportation Canada documents cite both "Hamilton Harbour" and "Burlington Bay", suggesting that either is acceptable.

This map is a plan of the city docks from 1836:

hamiltonguy · #15 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 6:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by realcity

that's incorrect. Stoney Creek is 662 and 664 exchanges the Centennial corridor is 578

The (old) border extends down Highway 20 until King street then heads east to Lake Ave north to Barton then East yet again all the way to Gray Road (which by the way the morons in SC call "Grays") then north to the Lake.

Those apartment complexes at Lake and Barton area were under the old Hamilton Housing Authority. There was a citizen uproar from the east side residents of Lake Avenue Road (the Stoney Creek) because Hamilton was building 'geared to income' high-rises on the very fringe of the City of Hamilton.

This may be where the telephone exchanges are, but they don't always follow official boundaries.

Lake and Barton are not on the boundary. I will now consult every map I have made by the City of Hamilton (Cycling Maps and HSR Maps).

The Boundary runs along the East Side of Centennial to King.

It travels West along the North Side of King to a line that would include Cromwell Cr.'s North-South Portion.

It Travels North Down this line INCLUDING Cromwell Cr. until North of Queenston at a point corresponding to the Line of the Properties Facing Queenston from the North.

The Boundary runs East, including in Stoney Creek the properties facing Queenston on the North Side, until Grays Road.

The Boundary runs North including properties on both side of Grays in Stoney Creek until just South of Barton where both sides are in Hamilton.

Then at Barton the Boundary shifts back to Grays Road itself.

This is officially the Boundaries.

Now if we accept your logic, then the Historical Downtown of Stoney Creek lies right on the border with Hamilton.

hamiltonguy · #16 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 6:15 PM**

Another note.

Raisethehammer claims that Aldershot was part of Hamilton.

This is not technically true.

Quote:

In 1974, the Hamilton-Wentworth Region was created with six constituent municipalities. Flamborough Township was created as one of these by amalgamating East Flamborough, West Flamborough, Beverly and Waterdown. At the same time, a small portion of Beverly Township near the community of Clyde was ceded to North Dumfries Township in Waterloo Region and a more populous but smaller portion of East Flamborough near the community of Aldershot was ceded to Burlington in Halton Region.

This was not because of any Toronto-centric policy, but because at this time Flamborough was mostly rural, and the populated portion of Aldershot was closer to Burlington.

Also Burlington is a Hamilton suburb, not a Toronto suburb, so really this is nothing to do with Toronto, merely a minor boundary adjustment.

The argument over the RBG is because the main facilities are in Burlington, on Plains road, even though 70% of the land is in Hamilton.

However, I think it should still be called Hamilton's RBG because Burlington is a suburb of Hamilton, the main facilities are less than a Km from the Hamilton border, and, as already mentioned, 70% of the land is in Hamilton.

RePinion · #17 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 6:25 PM**

Hard to say whether Burlington is really a suburb of Hamilton or of Toronto. Burlington is listed in Hamilton's CMA but it is also recognized as belonging to the Greater Toronto Area. It is evident that most Bulington residents have a focus towards Toronto rather than towards Hamilton nowadays - as most of the jobs which support Burlington's affluence are Toronto-based - so I am inclined to accept the constant affirmations of Burlingtonians that their city, while close, has "nothing to do with Hamilton" (God forbid haha).

RePinion · #18 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 6:25 PM**

I agree that the RBG should be recognized as a Hamilton rather than Burlington institution though.

SteelTown · #19 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 6:27 PM**

I know tons of people that live in Burlington but work in Hamilton (McMaster)

Hammer Native · #20 Posted **Apr 5, 2008, 6:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamiltonguy

Actually the southeast corner of Eastgate is in Stoney Creek.

Stoney Creek's Border is just West of Centennial to just north of Queenston where it jogs east two blocks as you say.

It's quite funny looking at the Map seeing just less than a quarter of East Gate being in Stoney Creek.

The first sentence is correct, I used to see that on some old maps. Then the boundary runs east approximately 1 block north of Queenston Road and stops about 1 block west of Gray's Road, then heads north to the lake. So streets like Lake Ave. North, Delawana Drive, and Gray's Rd. North a well as Confederation Park are all in the old city of Hamilton boundaries.

Also I remember a somewhat funny story from years ago. A bunch of car dealerships were having a massive sale on the Eastgate parking lot. They got a permit from the city of Hamilton, but not knowing a small southeast portion of the lot is in Stoney Creek, neglected to get a permit from them. The whole event was held up until they did.

The Hamilton Harbour boundary does go up to the Burlington shoreline and yes the property owners on the North Shore have to get a permit from Hamilton if they want to extend their docks. Years ago Burlington tried to get their boundary extended farther out but Hamilton didn't agree. (good).

When the Skyway was twinned in the late 1980's the Ontario government
renamed it James N. Allan (I think a former transportation minister, not 100% sure) and put Burlington Bay name on it to compensate them for the fact they don't have the harbour. (What a load of B.S.)