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  #1901  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2017, 7:33 AM
Corndogger Corndogger is online now
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Originally Posted by joe498 View Post
No conservative will cancel the project but they will definitely delay it in the name of balancing the budget. Not to mention, repealing the carbon tax will take away the revenue source for this project so there is plenty of room for this project to be delayed. I'd feel better of the shovels were in the ground before the next provincial election. However, if the shovels are not in the ground yet, they will likely opt to postpone it to save a few billion.
Kenney was part of Harper's government that approved the federal share and he made a big deal about it. The provincial PCs are not going to go against infrastructure projects like they did in the past. At least not if they want to get reelected. There are much better things to cut back on that will result in real savings. Not building infrastructure is stupid. We've already gone down that road and it was a complete disaster.
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  #1902  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2017, 2:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
Kenney was part of Harper's government that approved the federal share and he made a big deal about it. The provincial PCs are not going to go against infrastructure projects like they did in the past. At least not if they want to get reelected. There are much better things to cut back on that will result in real savings. Not building infrastructure is stupid. We've already gone down that road and it was a complete disaster.
Consistency or hypocrisy don't mean much in politics. Whatever gets you votes today is what's going to happen and right now promising to cancel the carbon tax will get big play with the conservative base that's currently apoplectic. Ramifications of such a move will be lost on the minds of a sizable chunk of voters and when the consequences start to bite the new gov will just blame the NDP either for the cost defaulting to the debt or for the project being delayed.
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  #1903  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2017, 3:10 PM
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MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Originally Posted by joe498 View Post
No conservative will cancel the project but they will definitely delay it in the name of balancing the budget. Not to mention, repealing the carbon tax will take away the revenue source for this project so there is plenty of room for this project to be delayed. I'd feel better of the shovels were in the ground before the next provincial election. However, if the shovels are not in the ground yet, they will likely opt to postpone it to save a few billion.
Only need to move things up three quarters to close before the election.

The government can delay cash payments for sure, but they still need to carry the accrual cost on their books.

Delaying the project makes it harder to balance the books, not easier, since you'd be back loading cash payments.
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  #1904  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2017, 3:16 PM
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Calgarian Calgarian is offline
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Well, it really depends on what you are looking at - it is not so simple, will the P3 deal have no payments until opening day? If that is the case, the governments that use accrual accounting will be booking the expense but not not paying any cash out.

So is that debt?

Could the city's accumulated Green Line sinking fund surplus (from start of collection to opening day) under that situation defray all the interest charges? That helps the cash flow situation, but doesn't change that debt is being issued! Under that situation do you hold a surplus to generate a higher return than your interest, or lump sum to reduce your initial borrowing!

Funding through savings is just positive debt—functionally equivalent! Any difference you perceive is only aesthetic, unless your amortization period of the asset is shorter than your loan payoff period.
So it's not very straightforward, which is what I was getting at. Labeling it as 100% debt is silly and uninformed. Besides, we need this badly, I moved downtown originally because the deep SE is underserved by transit and Deerfoot can fuck off in the morning.
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  #1905  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2017, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
Not building infrastructure is stupid. We've already gone down that road and it was a complete disaster.
But people still LOVE Ralph Klein, and all he did was defer or tear down infrastructure. He never eliminated the deficit as people love to claim, he just converted it to a larger infrastructure deficit, and we are still playing catch-up.

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Originally Posted by Socguy View Post
Consistency or hypocrisy don't mean much in politics. Whatever gets you votes today is what's going to happen and right now promising to cancel the carbon tax will get big play with the conservative base that's currently apoplectic. Ramifications of such a move will be lost on the minds of a sizable chunk of voters and when the consequences start to bite the new gov will just blame the NDP either for the cost defaulting to the debt or for the project being delayed.
I doubt they will be able to get rid of it all together, especially without O&G revenues that are sufficient to fill holes in the budget. Also, isn't there some federal implications if we get rid of carbon tax?
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  #1906  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2017, 3:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
So it's not very straightforward, which is what I was getting at. Labeling it as 100% debt is silly and uninformed. Besides, we need this badly, I moved downtown originally because the deep SE is underserved by transit and Deerfoot can fuck off in the morning.
I've been working at one of my old offices in the Deep SE the last few weeks and man oh man do I not miss the traffic. I am reverse commuting thankfully. Wouldn't want to be stuck in that parking lot on NB Deerfoot.
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  #1907  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2017, 7:49 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is online now
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But people still LOVE Ralph Klein, and all he did was defer or tear down infrastructure. He never eliminated the deficit as people love to claim, he just converted it to a larger infrastructure deficit, and we are still playing catch-up.
There was a lot to love about Ralph but that wasn't one of the things. The last years of the PCs did see them build infrastructure even when there were budget deficits. If they go back to the stupid old days of building only when they have all of the funding on hand they'll never get elected. Now is the time to be investing in the infrastructure that we so badly need not when times are booming and we get half the value for double the cost.
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  #1908  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 8:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
There was a lot to love about Ralph but that wasn't one of the things. The last years of the PCs did see them build infrastructure even when there were budget deficits. If they go back to the stupid old days of building only when they have all of the funding on hand they'll never get elected. Now is the time to be investing in the infrastructure that we so badly need not when times are booming and we get half the value for double the cost.
Ralph was the king of high taxes and cuts to public services / infrastructure. If people complain of taxes under the NDP, Ralph would be relatively communist for certain.
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  #1909  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2017, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by sammyd View Post
Plenty of time to cancel it after the NDP are removed.
Maybe not cancel it - but they have already chopped the north section of the line from north of 16 Ave. North.
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  #1910  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2017, 8:34 PM
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Ralph was the king of high taxes and cuts to public services / infrastructure. If people complain of taxes under the NDP, Ralph would be relatively communist for certain.
Exactly. Taxes were higher across the board while Klein was in power. We have had it pretty good in Alberta for such a long time, that we don't realize that even after the NDP raised taxes, that we still pay the lowest in the country and the lowest in this province over the last couple of decades.
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