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  #741  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2017, 9:54 PM
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MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Originally Posted by artvandelay View Post
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here, but there already is an underground corridor providing access to the platforms:
What a find ... hadn't seen that before
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  #742  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 8:10 AM
Corndogger Corndogger is online now
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Originally Posted by MMMBeer View Post
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet here: the On-It regional bus service will be running a seasonal summer service between Banff and Crowfoot LRT station. Tickets $10 per person, per direction.

Apologies if this has been mentioned but didn't see it discussed above. Looks life a decent deal. Sure as heck looks more viable than building a train service from scratch.
$20 for a round trip sounds very good to me.
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  #743  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2017, 11:46 PM
Jaspertf Jaspertf is offline
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Originally Posted by MMMBeer View Post
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet here: the On-It regional bus service will be running a seasonal summer service between Banff and Crowfoot LRT station. Tickets $10 per person, per direction.

Apologies if this has been mentioned but didn't see it discussed above. Looks life a decent deal. Sure as heck looks more viable than building a train service from scratch.
Bus services are generally considered a precursor to rail services, bus services are an efficient and economical short term solution, the road network is already in place and the buses are relatively inexpensive. The long term solution would be a rail service, studies show that rail service attracts more riders than bus service.

The Town of Banff is currently engaged in a feasibility study for their Bow Valley Passenger Rail service.

The On-It service has been very well advertised/publicised.
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  #744  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2017, 11:53 PM
Jaspertf Jaspertf is offline
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Originally Posted by artvandelay View Post
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here, but there already is an underground corridor providing access to the platforms:
I really want to get on the Doors Open YYC event at the Calgary Tower, there are a lot of urban myths about underground stations around downtown Calgary, the Calgary Municipal Building and now the Calgary Tower.
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  #745  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2017, 12:19 AM
mytwocents mytwocents is online now
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Originally Posted by Jaspertf View Post
I really want to get on the Doors Open YYC event at the Calgary Tower, there are a lot of urban myths about underground stations around downtown Calgary, the Calgary Municipal Building and now the Calgary Tower.
That'd be very interesting to go to is there a date?

Also today was the start of On-It trips to Banff. It would be nice if the buses came downtown before heading out to Banff, the price is more like $13 per trip to C-train out to Tuscany first.
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  #746  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2017, 1:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mytwocents View Post
That'd be very interesting to go to is there a date?

Also today was the start of On-It trips to Banff. It would be nice if the buses came downtown before heading out to Banff, the price is more like $13 per trip to C-train out to Tuscany first.
If they came downtown they'd probably just add $3 to the price. Is the service being marketed toward locals or tourists? If it's tourists then they definitely should come downtown.
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  #747  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2017, 2:17 AM
CrossedTheTracks CrossedTheTracks is online now
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Originally Posted by mytwocents View Post
That'd be very interesting to go to is there a date?
Date, yes: Sept 23. List of sites, not yet. Their web site says they'll have the list available in July. http://www.doorsopenyyc.org/
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  #748  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2017, 3:05 AM
mytwocents mytwocents is online now
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
If they came downtown they'd probably just add $3 to the price. Is the service being marketed toward locals or tourists? If it's tourists then they definitely should come downtown.
That's also what I'm wondering. Only picking people up at Tuscany and Somerset gives me the impression it's more for locals in the surrounding area as opposed to tourists.
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  #749  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 2:41 PM
Jaspertf Jaspertf is offline
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Please see link:

http://www.albertaregionalrail.com

This is not high-speed rail, but a regional rail system.

The closest examples to my idea would be FasTracks RTD Denver and GO Transit Toronto, though most of my idea comes from my experience travelling around London UK. GO Transit is more established having been in operation since 1970s, and is primarily set up for commuter transportation, however this is changing with their proposed Regional Express Rail. FasTracks is currently under construction in various phases, and provides an idea of capital costs and issues with developing a rail system in the modern era. FasTracks also uses smaller Electric Multiple Units that are more along the lines of my idea, however I propose using a bi-mode Diesel/Electric Multiple Unit that can switch between modes whilst at speed.

In order to save on capital infrastructure costs I would propose utilizing the existing rail rights of way operated by Canadian Pacific. The tracks pass through the middle of the largest urban areas immediately outside the City of Calgary, so little investment in infrastructure would be required to get it set up as a commuter service, and with regular freight trains currently in operation noise and other environmental concerns will be low.

Through an analysis of various examples around the world, the traditional route to the development of public transportation is to start with bus services, and as passenger numbers grow move to rail. There are currently a number of bus services in operation, operated by the municipalities and private companies. Development of bus transit can be summarized as:
-Purchase busses.
-Widen roads.
-Implement bus lanes/multi-occupancy vehicle lanes.

Taking Airdrie to Calgary, or even Okotoks to Calgary as examples, after purchasing and operating bus services, the next course of action is to expand the capacity of the road network, add additional lanes to the QE2/Deerfoot Trail. For the Okotoks route some existing bridges pose issues, namely Ivor Strong and the Glenmore Trail bridge, however the On-It service from Okotoks only goes as far as the Somerset LRT station whilst Airdries ICE has services into downtown Calgary.
Once additional lanes have ben introduced on the highway, the next step is a separated multi-occupancy vehicle lane, as is currently being conducted by RTD Denver, one of their recent 16km sections cost US$497million, involving road re-alignment and bridge replacements. My estimate to build suitable track between Calgary and Airdrie is approximately CAD$300million, but to set up a basic service using existing infrastructure and only operating at peak hours should be less than CAD$50million.
For a personal example, a bus and taxi lane was implemented on the M4 in London UK, from Heathrow Airport to the "elevated section" in 1999, and was subsequently abandoned in 2010. Research was produced to show it as a success, however the research was only conducted on the length of the bus lane, not the surrounding and approaching routes. Journey times may have been reduced and CO2 emissions cut on the length of the bus route, however the "bottleneck" was just moved down the road and affected traffic on the M25 and other routes. I lived in the area for many years and regularly used the M4.

There is an interesting opportunity to establish a Regional Rail service in Alberta, a number of the pre-requisites are in place, in-use infrastructure and an established and large population base. The priority of the Cities of Calgary and Edmonton will always be their own transit systems, the other municipalities are too small to fund large infrastructure projects. Roads and highways are Provincially and Federally funded, rail infrastructure would fall under the same scenario. The benefits of rail include, improved mobility with an integrated transport network, increased productivity, reduced emissions, reduced wear and tear on the roads, with fewer vehicle collisions, and time savings. The big question is, are the Province of Alberta, the Cities of Edmonton and Calgary, and the municipalities in and around the Calgary - Edmonton corridor committed to an integrated transport system? A system that connects urban and downtown areas, and is integrated with local transit, to really make it easier for people to leave their cars at home and to be able to get where they want to go.

A locomotive costs upwards of US$7million.
Siemens Charger - US$7million
Bombardier ALP45DP - US$7.6million
Brookville BL36PH - US$10.9million
Electro-Motive Diesel F125 Spirit US$15million.
With power output over 4,000hp enough to pull 12 coaches, coaches cost between US$1.5 and US$2 million depending upon size and configuration.

Population numbers would not require 12 coaches, I would anticipate average weekday ridership to be around 5,000, which puts it on a par with SunRail Florida, Coaster California, Capitol Corridor California, Northstar Minnesota, etc, which operate 3-4 coach trains. 2 trains would be the minimum requirement for a service to/from any of the areas, a train would consist of a locomotive and 3 coaches (4 units). 20 units is approximately where train purchases are viable for a manufacturer. Therefore, if say Airdrie, Okotoks, Cochrane, or Banff were to go it alone to try to purchase trains individually, very few or none of the manufacturers would consider bidding, or if they did it would be at a high cost as the order would be for about half a dozen units. However, if they all teamed up as a grouping, all manufacturers would consider bidding as the purchase would be for over two dozen units. If the entire idea of Alberta Regional Rail was to be built, over 75 units would need to be purchased.
A 3-car train requires substantially less horsepower than that provided by current locomotives, and therefore a smaller engine could be used, the smaller engine would easily fit inside a passenger car sacrificing only a small number of seats, creating a Diesel Multiple Unit. A DMU requires no cost for the purchase of a locomotive, but a marginal increase in the cost for a couple of coach cars that would become driving cars.

7 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 = 11.5
3 + 1.5 + 3 = 7.5

The resulting DMU would be far more efficient with reduced emissions than the conventional locomotive hauled train, if additional passenger capacity is required Multiple Units can easily be connected together.
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  #750  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 4:12 PM
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MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Those Nippon Sharyo DMU that UP and Sonoma Marin and MBTA have in service/ordered seems like a safe bet.

I also like your Calgary International Airport (YYC) extension thoughts, though it would require more tunneling that you'd think. Probably easier to jog east at 32nd. In the airport precinct , the tunnels are there to replicate/expand/use. Definitely a bit outside of the current box.
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  #751  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2017, 4:36 AM
mytwocents mytwocents is online now
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
I also like your Calgary International Airport (YYC) extension thoughts, though it would require more tunneling that you'd think. Probably easier to jog east at 32nd. In the airport precinct , the tunnels are there to replicate/expand/use. Definitely a bit outside of the current box.
Is an airport connection necessary with a LRT connection happening in the future? Especially with some serious tunnelling required to do it there's no way that could be feasible.

Also I've been seeing the On-It busses more and more but never see anybody on them...tinted windows make it tough. But I alway notice packed ICE busses, I never noticed how many private bus companies are in Southern Alberta until I became interested in regional transit.
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  #752  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2017, 5:43 AM
Rollerstud98 Rollerstud98 is online now
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Originally Posted by mytwocents View Post
Is an airport connection necessary with a LRT connection happening in the future? Especially with some serious tunnelling required to do it there's no way that could be feasible.

Also I've been seeing the On-It busses more and more but never see anybody on them...tinted windows make it tough. But I alway notice packed ICE busses, I never noticed how many private bus companies are in Southern Alberta until I became interested in regional transit.
ICE buses were empty for some time as well. Most people were using the First Canada service or driving. Not sure on First Canada ridership but like you say ICE is usually packed.
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  #753  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2017, 3:36 PM
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MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Originally Posted by mytwocents View Post
Is an airport connection necessary with a LRT connection happening in the future? Especially with some serious tunnelling required to do it there's no way that could be feasible.

Also I've been seeing the On-It busses more and more but never see anybody on them...tinted windows make it tough. But I alway notice packed ICE busses, I never noticed how many private bus companies are in Southern Alberta until I became interested in regional transit.
There will not be a business case in our lifetimes for an LRT extension. Now, some sort of shuttle between the two close by LRT lines and the airport? Maybe, but I bet it ends up as frequent buses.

The modal share at other airports is just too low to spend a billion or so to serve Calgary's airport.
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  #754  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2017, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
The modal share at other airports is just too low to spend a billion or so to serve Calgary's airport.
I feel like Vancouver's ridership is pretty high.

Not sure about Toronto.
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  #755  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2017, 9:33 PM
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MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Vancouver is the highest on the continent at modal share. (17% according to these guys http://www.transportationassociates....shingtonV5.pdf )And the airport provided a huge capital subsidy for it. And traffic in Vancouver is pretty bad. I would bet we would be more like Portland than Vancouver on this front.

I think a forced transfer at both LRT lines would be better for the people forced to transfer than interlining. More frequent (and faster) and in all better service.
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  #756  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2017, 4:51 AM
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Would the trains proposed for http://www.albertaregionalrail.com be able to run on rail lines in North America along side freight?
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  #757  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2017, 3:01 PM
Jaspertf Jaspertf is offline
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https://www.albertaregionalrail.com/

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Originally Posted by mytwocents View Post
Would the trains proposed for http://www.albertaregionalrail.com be able to run on rail lines in North America along side freight?
Yes, the FRA figures collisions are inevitable, and calls for the chassis to be able to withstand 800,000lbs without permanent deformation. There are many examples of commuter rail in North America that operate along side freight, some have managed to obtain exceptions to rule 238.203. I believe the chassis of the AGC can be enhanced with limited adverse effects.
Or there is the use of existing locomotives like the Siemens Charger or Bombardier ALP45DP and BiLevel coaches.

Also I eliminated the YYC connection and went back to my original plan of a bus connection. A few times I have taken the 300 bus to the airport from downtown, and looking back at it recently there are 3 buses that connect to the airport, 100 from McKnight Westwinds on the Blue Line, 300 from downtown along Center St and Airport Trail, and 430 from Sandstone/Country Hills Village along Country Hills Blvd which would be a future station on the new Green Line. With the 430 travelling along Country Hills Blvd it would be able to interact with the Country Hills station on the ARR route.
A lot of the required transportation infrastructure to implement ARR is in place, which would make it inexpensive to get ARR going around Calgary.

https://www.albertaregionalrail.com/

Last edited by Jaspertf; Jul 14, 2017 at 3:32 PM.
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  #758  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 11:25 PM
Jaspertf Jaspertf is offline
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Why D/EMU AGC.

GO Transit operates 12 BiLevel coach trains hauled by a MP40PH-3C locomotive, the MP40PH-3C has a 185.6l V-16 diesel engine that produces 4000hp. Using the power to weight ratio, 3 BiLevel coaches would require 845.5hp, that could be achieved using 2 small engines located either behind or above/below the drivers cab.
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b...fe0bd8~mv2.jpg
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b...83299d~mv2.jpg
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b...647d96~mv2.jpg
As an example, the 6-cylinder 12 liter Cummins QSG12 has a power output up to 512hp, using the AGC powertrain technology and control system a pantograph unit can be fitted to the middle car.
If the resultant 3-car D/EMUs were joined together to form a train the same size as a GO Transit train, the total engine displacement would be 96 liters, approximately half the size of the current locomotives that haul the fleet, meaning fuel efficiencies and reduced emissions.

https://www.albertaregionalrail.com/
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  #759  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2017, 9:00 PM
mytwocents mytwocents is online now
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One of the things I don't quite understand is the length of future LRT expansions. Surely a commuter rail station in Silverado would benefit people there more than a LRT line that'll take 30-40 minutes to get downtown. I've written the city about when they might consider the tipping point may be to steongly look at regional rail and didn't really get an answer. Just a standard response of LRT projects and 4 car trains.

The longest metro line in Paris is about 23km, roughly the length of the SE LRT line. The RER line E is 53km almost the length of the fully built out green line.

I would love to see the region come together for regional rail. Saying the population is too small isn't as much of a factor as the culture of using rail. I think the ridership Ctrain shows Calgarians like taking rail.
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