Complete Street Policy

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I'm just not following this attitude. It's not like the proposal is for a huge swath of unmarked pavement that everyone tries to negotiate as best they can. In fact if you look at the "Complete Streets for Canada" web site their home page shows an image of the recently completed Burrard Street Bridge as an example of what they're talking about:



Here we see completely separated and protected access for pedestrians, bikes and cars. Does anyone really think that this is going to lead to more accidents than the original configuration of the bridge?

That looks fine, but it's not a complete street, it's a bridge. It effectively allows cars, cyclists and pedestrians (less so transit) to cross the river, but there is no interaction with buildings so you can't really call it a street.

Throw buildings and intersections into that setup and things immediately become less than great.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by milomilo

That looks fine, but it's not a complete street, it's a bridge. It effectively allows cars, cyclists and pedestrians (less so transit) to cross the river, but there is no interaction with buildings so you can't really call it a street.

Can't really call it a river either

The picture is taken from an intersection, the format of the street continues behind the photographer and most definitely interacts with buildings and intersections etc...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by milomilo

That looks fine, but it's not a complete street, it's a bridge. It effectively allows cars, cyclists and pedestrians (less so transit) to cross the river, but there is no interaction with buildings so you can't really call it a street.

Throw buildings and intersections into that setup and things immediately become less than great.

First of all, it illustrates the principle of separation, which you can do on a street with buildings just as easily. Secondly, one of the highlights of the Burrard Bridge design is in the way the intersections at each end have protected phases for all modes (cars, pedestrians and cyclists) so as to minimize potential conflicts.

The point is this: a "complete street" that accommodates all modes of transportation doesn't have to be a free-for-all that causes conflicts. In fact such a free-for-all would not meet the criteria for a "complete street" design as it's recognized in transportation design.

I get the idea that some people are confusing "complete street" with a "woonerf" - but the two are not the same thing. Contrast the Wikipedia entries for woonerf and complete streets to see the obvious difference.

[Feathered Friend]

Nanaimo Street upgrades

Key recommendations
Nanaimo is an arterial street, truck and bus route, and provides an important connection to local neighbourhoods. Many of the proposed improvements were informed through the Grandview-Woodland Community Plan and previous community feedback as part of making Nanaimo a more complete street.

These recommendations and improvements include:

1. Removing a travel lane, where excess vehicle capacity exists, between 2nd Ave and Pandora St
   • This would reduce crossing distances for people walking, discourage speeding, and create a more comfortable experience on the street.
2. Upgrading pedestrian crossings at 10 key intersections
3. Installing a painted bike lane and making improvements for people cycling at key intersections to reduce conflicts with vehicles
4. Adding new left-turn lanes down the centre of the street with new centre medians where possible
5. Upgrading traffic signals at five key intersections
6. Repaving the street surface
7. Repairing sidewalks where needed

Open house: street improvements
Learn about construction and share your feedback about potential street improvements.

Tuesday, November 13, 2018, 5pm to 8pm
Kiwassa Neighbourhood House, 2425 Oxford Street

https://vancouver.ca/streets-transpo...-upgrades.aspx

[Aroundtheworld]

^ If they really want to make it a 'complete street' they should also add some more mixed use. I think there is some planned in the Grandview-Woodlands plan, but it could definitely be more consistent.

[Metro-One]

What is the point of adding bike lanes to the main arterial streets?? Parallel side streets are far better for cycling.

When I lived in South Van I never never rode along Cambie. It was awful. I always rode along Ontario Street. That was wonderful.

If they really want to compete some streets, why don’t they add proper sidewalks and curbs to the numerous side streets that still slump off into gravel on their shoulders? Looks third world.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

What is the point of adding bike lanes to the main arterial streets?? Parallel side streets are far better for cycling.

When I lived in South Van I never never rode along Cambie. It was awful. I always rode along Ontario Street. That was wonderful.

If they really want to compete some streets, why don’t they add proper sidewalks and curbs to the numerous side streets that still slump off into gravel on their shoulders? Looks third world.

Hey, don't worry about it; over here in Langley, the 200St. bike lane is literally invisible now due to the amount of dirt grinding the lane markings into nothingness...

[Feathered Friend]

Tonight an elderly couple nearly lost their lives simply trying to cross the road at Nanaimo and Franklin Street. Four blocks to the north, the City of Vancouver was asking if it would be ok if they tried to make the road safer.

What's even worse is the open hatred & bigotry that was expressed by several onlookers who suggested that this elderly couple was trying to commit insurance fraud as “that's what these Chinese do over there in Asia.”

https://twitter.com/City_Duo/status/1062614365189230593

[osirisboy]

Look at how dark the street is! When is the city going to finish installing led stret lights? It's in excusable at this point to not have properly lit streets

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

This kind of thing really tears me up because pedestrians can almost always avoid this outcome by exercising a bit of care. I'm not blaming the victims here, particularly since the crosswalk at that intersection ought to make drivers even more cautious. But as a pedestrian even when I have the right of way I never, ever just blindly assume that motorists are going to stop for me. My head goes back and forth like a laser scanner looking for the idiot driver that's going to try to mow me down. A few have tried.

There's zero consolation in being in the right if you're dead or have suffered a life-altering injury because of someone else's incompetence. I see way too many people wandering into the street without being aware of their surroundings - it's a recipe for disaster, especially on these dark and stormy nights. The truth is that no matter how brightly you're dressed or how well lit and safe the city can make the street, some drivers are simply not paying attention and you're going to be hit unless you watch out for them.

Be careful out there people!

[misher]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

https://twitter.com/City_Duo/status/1062614365189230593

It does look like they were jaywalking. Got to be careful, glad there ok.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by misher

It does look like they were jaywalking. Got to be careful, glad there ok.

True but crosswalks can be just as bad

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

True but crosswalks can be just as bad

Definitely. A lot of drivers like the maneuver of turning their head in the opposite direction from the one they're turning their car to, which has led to me having to literally jump out of the way of them.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

But as a pedestrian even when I have the right of way I never, ever just blindly assume that motorists are going to stop for me.

Gah I had a friend who did that. She used to blindly walk out mid-block all the time. I'm still amazed that she's not dead yet (I'm pretty sure she hasn't changed her ways).

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Gah I had a friend who did that. She used to blindly walk out mid-block all the time. I'm still amazed that she's not dead yet (I'm pretty sure she hasn't changed her ways).

Let's hope she never encounters my friend, who readily admits that she can't see at night but still insists on driving anyway.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

What is the point of adding bike lanes to the main arterial streets?? Parallel side streets are far better for cycling.

When I lived in South Van I never never rode along Cambie. It was awful. I always rode along Ontario Street. That was wonderful.

Because that makes too much sense, and they want as much "impact" as they can by once again going after the car on major arterial routes. The fact that this will cause more traffic and increase pollution levels is not even on the radar.

You literally have a street about 100 feet over that you can easily close off to vehicular traffic, provide a cycling network that is effective and actually doesn't disrupt anyone thereby adding rather than constantly choosing to build one at the expense of another. But again, that makes too much sense, so no way they'll do that.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Because that makes too much sense, and they want as much "impact" as they can by once again going after the car on major arterial routes. The fact that this will cause more traffic and increase pollution levels is not even on the radar.

You literally have a street about 100 feet over that you can easily close off to vehicular traffic, provide a cycling network that is effective and actually doesn't disrupt anyone thereby adding rather than constantly choosing to build one at the expense of another. But again, that makes too much sense, so no way they'll do that.

The cycling track along Cambie connects (directly) King Edward Station to Oakridge, Langara and 49th Ave cycle track, Marine Drive Station, and further south across Fraser into Richmond while maintaining 2 car travel lanes in both directions. Cycling routes are connected North-South over False Creek via Cambie Bridge.

The closest complete North-South route is Ontario, which is already a major route north of King Edward, but does not connect to major destinations and connectors, nor has a south connection over the Fraser River. The distance between Ontario and Cambie is 1 kilometre, same as Oak.

For the Complete Streets program along Commercial Drive I'm surprised I haven't heard more arguments for Victoria Drive to be used instead. The arterials in Hastings-Sunrise (Nanaimo St) were over designed and over built since their inception in the Hastings Townsite survey over a century ago.

[Vin]

That's why we need to fence up medians near busy intersections to force pedestrians to use proper crosswalks. Simple.

At higher-density intersections in town centres and downtown, there should be pedestrian tunnels, or even overhead bridges, especially when there are train stations close by.

[WoodlandCritter]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

https://twitter.com/City_Duo/status/1062614365189230593

Of course they had to throw the race twist in there, so progressive of them

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

What is the point of adding bike lanes to the main arterial streets??

It's totally political.

It's for "visibility" not for the user.
Same line of thinking as the LRT - highly visible, but doesn't provide the best service.

********

If a Hastings SkyTrain line is ever built - and Hasting densified with towers, they'll need road capacity to support services in the area.