What is Vancouver? A response...

[SpongeG]

yah for sure we are in a development phase its unfair to compare to other places - just hang in there - it can't happen overnight

i've never felt the smugness myself

[Hourglass]

I think you need to be away for a while, and then you really notice it in things the media

Originally Posted by jlousa

My passport has collected it's share of stamps over the years, to be honest there isn't much I'd import to Vancouver from elsewhere. There are little things here and there but for the most part I love that every city is very different, they've all grown the way they have for reasons and one only really learns those reasons by living in those places. Importing things will not have the same effect as developing things, sure we can look across the globe for inspirations, but true character is homegrown.
By the way I have skied/golfed/sailed all in the same day.

Do I detect some smugness here??? (kidding...)

jlousa, I didn't say 'import' ideas from other places. Rather look at the most successful ideas for inspiration as you say and adapt them. There is ALWAYS room for improvement IMO. Things that come to mind for me:

- transit - I love the way streetcars and trams are integrated into the urban landscape in many European cities. That can't come soon enough for me in Vancouver. I'd like to see a Vancouver where many people in the city limits feel that it's more convenient to cycle or take transit than drive. To me that only exists in the downtown peninsula right now.

-bike trails - more paths where cars and cyclists are separated. Coming up Cambie around W49th, I'm always bemused to see the way the cycling path was designed. As a cyclist, I don't like dodging buses or watching for idiot cars who suddenly pull out without looking. Wider sidewalks with separated sections for cyclists and pedestrians (like the Seawall) would be safer.

- architecture - for the most part I'm starting to find Vancouver's architecture rather bland (and from other's comments here I'm not the only one). I think that was one of the points of the guy from Berlin at the beginning of this thread. Berlin in the 90s went through an amazing transformation. Just look at the Norman Foster-designed Reichstag. Fantastic. Vancouver needs a couple of more buildings like that.

- more city-sponsored festivals and events year-round (speaking of which, Vancouver really needs a proper civic gathering place where large-scale events can be held. Plaza of Nations, maybe?). Think back to the Olympics and the atmosphere then.

- Overall economic development board that would probably sit at the Metro Vancouver level with a remit to bring in investment and companies from abroad. Or upgrade the Vancouver Board of Trade to perform this function for the entire region. As stated in the Vancouver amalgamation thread,

[SpikePhanta]

Well most of the people who visit Vancouver are people over 35 who like nature.
The things I would like Vancouver to improve on is the shopping, nightlife.
Mostly for those under 30 but I mostly would like Vancouver to have similar culture as montreal.

Also I wouldnt mind Vancouver becoming known for universities one day.

I remember trofirhen suggesting that we diversify the economy, would most likely also change vancouver itself.

I mean compare 30-40 years ago vancouver was just a small lumber/port town, and now growing rapidly, I cant think about how much vancouver might change in the next 50 years, its just too exciting.!

[paradigm4]

The Vancouver of 2010 is dramatically different from the Vancouver of Expo 86. Within about 30 years, we developed most of our major cultural attractions, built a rapid transit network, and created the most livable core in the world. We added 1 million people, and in another 30 years, we're supposed to add a million more.

Vancouver, as had been said multiple times, is in its teenage stage. A lot of the qualms mentioned will be solved with population and time. We're simply too small and too young right now to expect the same creature comforts as other so-called world class cities like NYC, Tokyo, Hong Kong, or London. Sure, there's more we can do, but these things take time. Look at the Burrard bike lane for example. The city was not ready for it back in the 90's, and now its became part of our urban fabric. If Science World or the VSO, or frankly the Art Gallery, tried to do a major expansion, I doubt there'd be enough financial support or public demand at this point in time for it to be successful.

I think we're on a good path that will only get better with time. Yes, we need to keep pushing, but within the realm of what is doable. By 2040, the region will be completely different than it is today, undoubtedly for the better.

Predictions: The cultural scene will explode in the next 15 years as institutions mature and new entrepreneurs start up a wider variety of businesses and festivals. Transport will be revolutionized in the next 10, as electric cars are introduced and bike/streetcars take off in popularity (already beginning). A full SkyTrain network will be in place by 2030, and there'll be new rail connections out to the Valley and the USA. By 2030, the mall-centric town centres will disappear as new dense cores replace them, dotted throughout the region, each with their own services and unique draws/identities (roughly today's Metrotown in terms of density). Immigration will increase as Canada's rep on the world stage matures. Vancouver will be an entrepreneurial driven city, home to many self-sufficient economic globetrotters, still without any major corporations though. The region will integrate to a much higher degree, some smaller cities will merge with adjacent municipalities, but there will be no huge amalgamations. Metro Vancouver will obtain greater control and autonomy, and refocus on economic development. Topping it all off will be the same fab mountain ranges and blue seas surrounding the city.

[vansky]

hopefully alot more skyscraper than ever before

[whatnext]

I wonder how many people moaning about Vancouver's art & culture scene have made cash donations to any our theatre companies? the art gallery? any of our museums?....

As far as population, we fit nicely in North America around Baltimore, St.Louis, Tampa-St.Petersburg. Ever been to any of them? Ever want to? The fact our whiny Berliner had actually been to Vancouver speaks volumes about "punching above our weight".

As to having cathedrals, vast museums etc - its not going to happen. Its not our history. But who here has been to Ft. Langley, Stave Lake Power House, Gulf of Georgia Cannery, BC Museum of Mining...anyone else? That's our history. Take ownership of it, celebrate it, don't complain about what we won't ever have.

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I wonder how many people moaning about Vancouver's art & culture scene have made cash donations to any our theatre companies? the art gallery? any of our museums?....

So true. I know tons of people who bemoan our undeveloped theatre scene, yet refuse to support the Arts Club or TUTS financially beyond the occasional show ticket. Similar situation with the VSO; how many people moaned when it had financial troubles, yet have never been to a show?!

In fact, this idea that we need to have a ballet/opera/classical music scene to become "world class" is rather dated quite frankly - the market for this art is increasingly small and I would argue is simply a remnant of European cities. To be a successful cultural city in the 21st century, I don't think we necessarily need permanent venues for such art.

But this also speaks to Canada's relatively small national population. Compared to the USA or Europe, we don't have nearly as many rich entrepreneurs or wealthy families to support the arts. Culturally, I think we rely far too heavily on government to support the industry, which has translated into an almost irrational supposition that such orgs don't need private donations to survive.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by paradigm4

So true. I know tons of people who bemoan our undeveloped theatre scene, yet refuse to support the Arts Club or TUTS financially beyond the occasional show ticket. Similar situation with the VSO; how many people moaned when it had financial troubles, yet have never been to a show?!

In fact, this idea that we need to have a ballet/opera/classical music scene to become "world class" is rather dated quite frankly - the market for this art is increasingly small and I would argue is simply a remnant of European cities. To be a successful cultural city in the 21st century, I don't think we necessarily need permanent venues for such art.

I agree with you that people here don't appreciate what we DO have, and don't make much effort to support the local cultural scene, when there are, in fact, enough wealthy people around who could be patrons of the arts if they so chose.

However, I would disagree strongly that ballet/ opera/ classical music are "dated."
These are classical art forms that will always be appreciated somewhere (though not necessarily in Vancouver)
As an example, although it receives a lot of funding support, Winnipeg - one third the size of Vancouver - is home to
the Royal Winnipeg Ballet, world renowned.
Size isn't everything (but it sure helps!)

[delboy]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I wonder how many people moaning about Vancouver's art & culture scene have made cash donations to any our theatre companies? the art gallery? any of our museums?....

As far as population, we fit nicely in North America around Baltimore, St.Louis, Tampa-St.Petersburg. Ever been to any of them? Ever want to? The fact our whiny Berliner had actually been to Vancouver speaks volumes about "punching above our weight".

As to having cathedrals, vast museums etc - its not going to happen. Its not our history. But who here has been to Ft. Langley, Stave Lake Power House, Gulf of Georgia Cannery, BC Museum of Mining...anyone else? That's our history. Take ownership of it, celebrate it, don't complain about what we won't ever have.

good post - and the fact that some try to compare us to powerhouses like Berlin or London etc, speaks volumes of what we are becoming and the mark we are leaving on the world. You don't see someone doing that with Edmonton for instance.

I went for a run this am along ambleside, it was breathtaking as usual, I marveled at the beauty of the place, our naturally beauty never stops impressing me, it's what we are, what we have embraced and should be damn proud of it and why I emigrated here.

We will never be new york or London, we are not trying to be, we are Vancouver and are creating our own identity.....

[delboy]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I agree with you that people here don't appreciate what we DO have, and don't make much effort to support the local cultural scene, when there are, in fact, enough wealthy people around who could be patrons of the arts if they so chose.

However, I would disagree strongly that ballet/ opera/ classical music are "dated."
These are classical art forms that will always be appreciated somewhere (though not necessarily in Vancouver)
As an example, although it receives a lot of funding support, Winnipeg - one third the size of Vancouver - is home to
the Royal Winnipeg Ballet, world renowned.
Size isn't everything (but it sure helps!)

Yes the arts should be appreciated/respect and have a place in a grown up city, but it doesn't have to be what defines a place. Most citizens could n't care less about Madame Butterfly or Mozart or portraits of long dead Europeans.

I think one of the problems with Vancouver is how we are laid out - how many vistors actually make their way to the museum of anthropology (which is world class by the way) or over to MOV (not world class by the way)

there are some great, small independent theatre companies here, the Cultch (but who would go over to Commercial) comes to mind as does the new arts club theatre. We are lacking permanent productions found in 'larger cities' but the arts are here if you want them, but it takes perhaps too much effort for a tourist. would a tourist happen to wander past the stanley?


It's much the same with live music venues and small bistros playing spanish guitar or small independent restaurants having live music and dancing, those wandering around the core are not likely to happen upon them and it leaves one feeling somewhat at a loss and detached, that sticks with me when I first came here. the problem is, you really have to know where to go here and such locations are few and far between, and less likely to be accidentally discovered such as places like Montreal or New York which have thriving scenes.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

I think you need to be away for a while, and then you really notice it in things the media




Do I detect some smugness here??? (kidding...)

jlousa, I didn't say 'import' ideas from other places. Rather look at the most successful ideas for inspiration as you say and adapt them. There is ALWAYS room for improvement IMO. Things that come to mind for me:

- transit - I love the way streetcars and trams are integrated into the urban landscape in many European cities. That can't come soon enough for me in Vancouver. I'd like to see a Vancouver where many people in the city limits feel that it's more convenient to cycle or take transit than drive. To me that only exists in the downtown peninsula right now.

-bike trails - more paths where cars and cyclists are separated. Coming up Cambie around W49th, I'm always bemused to see the way the cycling path was designed. As a cyclist, I don't like dodging buses or watching for idiot cars who suddenly pull out without looking. Wider sidewalks with separated sections for cyclists and pedestrians (like the Seawall) would be safer.

- architecture - for the most part I'm starting to find Vancouver's architecture rather bland (and from other's comments here I'm not the only one). I think that was one of the points of the guy from Berlin at the beginning of this thread. Berlin in the 90s went through an amazing transformation. Just look at the Norman Foster-designed Reichstag. Fantastic. Vancouver needs a couple of more buildings like that.

- more city-sponsored festivals and events year-round (speaking of which, Vancouver really needs a proper civic gathering place where large-scale events can be held. Plaza of Nations, maybe?). Think back to the Olympics and the atmosphere then.

- Overall economic development board that would probably sit at the Metro Vancouver level with a remit to bring in investment and companies from abroad. Or upgrade the Vancouver Board of Trade to perform this function for the entire region. As stated in the Vancouver amalgamation thread,

i'm talking about smugness amongst people not the media

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i'm talking about smugness amongst people not the media

Yeah, I understand, although I only cited media as one specific example. Also, if things like the media repeat something enough, some people start to believe it.

[SpongeG]

well the media is a reflection of themselves - i hate the news but i watch it and roll my eyes

[Hourglass]

^
Me too, but I'm continually surprised at how many people I meet that take what they see or hear on the news as gospel truth...

[SpongeG]

like their classic - the gas tax hits at 12 am - so cut to 8 pm the night before and long line ups at the pumps only to have the price be cheaper on monday - lol

[LotusLand]

What to know what Vancouver is, this vid explains it quite well:
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2010/06/d...r-my-city.html

Give the city 5 to 10 years and our shopping, bar scene and arts scene will improve. It won't happen overnight, it will happen organically. Politicians will eventually cave or the old regime will simply die "literally" and bring in fresh new blood. Say what you want about Gregor, he isn't the greatest. But the cycling network will be his legacy. The Greenest city, may be a long shot and Green business? forget about it!

[vansky]

anyone been to shanghai? that is a city, deep into the night...

vancouver...have to say it has the blood, but not the pulse...that's because of car culture and population,we dont have enough ppl on the street

the thing about this city is its population and its limit on infrastucture

say central richmond, jut when u drive into an area that feels like a city with vibrance, drive a few blocks more, it's gone...u r on a farm...it's like a trailer of a hollywood movie, gives u 30 sec of feel, and its' over....same thing with metrotown, 2 towers in the sky reminds u of sth, and that's it...dt is a little better, but it's the similar thing, u go on thurlow, and then u look one way, it's big, (skyscrapers) then the other way, it's gone....van is almost like a mini world city

[Yume-sama]

Umm. You're not actually implying Shanghai has less of a car culture, and traffic, than Vancouver, are you?

Yeah, they can always expand their infrastructure. Mostly because they bulldoze whole areas and "re-locate" residents.

Probably to some re-education camp if they struggle


http://www.flickr.com/photos/64601344@N00/4689194265/

Our infrastructure is quite capable of handling our population. We just seem to look for ways to severely handicap it and limit its ability.

[vansky]

that reminds me a lot of my 2010 trip...

that city is just too energetic, u can never feel peace

but my pt was, that sh, even though with a lot of cars, still has a huge populatio nwithou tthem, so they walk, take trains, and cabs...ownership in van is too high, and ppl prefer wheels...so u just park behind the store, and go in, who actually walks to a store

[delboy]

Originally Posted by vansky

that reminds me a lot of my 2010 trip...

that city is just too energetic, u can never feel peace

but my pt was, that sh, even though with a lot of cars, still has a huge populatio nwithou tthem, so they walk, take trains, and cabs...ownership in van is too high, and ppl prefer wheels...so u just park behind the store, and go in, who actually walks to a store

I assume you are taking about metro vancouver - where i agree with you, but lots of hoods downtown have a walking culture. I rarely use my car on my days off and I'm sure its the same for others. One of the things I like about Vancouver is how walkable it is...I'm frankly surprised by your view.