Calgary Railtown: Right Place for a New Ballpark?

Beltliner · #1 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 8:28 PM**

Some recent idle speculation in the Calgary Public Transit thread led to the thought of building a new stadium on the site of the Victoria Park bus barns. Though I don't foresee a successor to McMahon Stadium being built there, it might be a good spot for a nice little snakepit for the Vipers, similar to Autozone Park in Memphis, or Principal Park in Des Moines, or Isotopes Park in Albuquerque. Points I'm considering with this train of thought:

The footprint of a 12,000-seat baseball stadium is considerably smaller that that of a minimum-50,000-seat CFL pitch, making it easier to fit physically into the site;
Moving no more than 12,000 fans on 40 Vipers' game days would be far less likely to overwhelm the transportation infrastructure than 50,000-plus fans on 10 Stampeders' game days;
The LRT is already in place near McMahon Stadium, and already jammed to the rafters on Stampeder game days;
A new snakepit would be far easier to scale into the overall redevelopment of East Vic Park, and to tie into the redevelopment of Stampede Park;
Cultural and small business amenities would have a far better chance of developing organically adjacent to a site with at least 40 visits a year;
The hue and cry from East Village, East Vic Park, Inglewood, and Ramsay residents would be deafening in response to a new playpen for the Stampeders in the area;
There would be no space at all for Stampeders' tailgaters to set up shop in East Vic Park;

and last but not least,

Foothills Stadium is coming down the nanosecond after City Council commits to building the Crowchild-24 Street interchange.

I can see a pedestrian-scaled baseball park fitting nicely within the context of a comprehensive Railtown development. Now if only the Vipers were playing before more than friends and family, they might actually have a shot at promotion back to the PCL!

Wooster · #2 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 8:35 PM**

Not part of Remington's plans so not going to happen. It will be a mixed use residential, retail and commercial neighbourhood. A ballpark is pretty land intensive and certainly not the best utilization of this site. Baseball is not very popular here either.

Distill3d · #3 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 8:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beltliner

Isotopes Park in Albuquerque

interesting idea. considering the 'Topes used to be the Calgary Cannons.

Personally a multi-use stadium would be a better concept (Soccer, high school Football) then a dall diamond. however, Josh is right here, its not going to happen, not there anyways.

Riise · #4 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 8:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beltliner

Now if only the Vipers were playing before more than friends and family, they might actually have a shot at promotion back to the PCL!

That's the question, can baseball survive in this town? After hearing that little league was only having a 33% return rate I think it's dead in this city. Personally I'd love to see a new footy (soccer) park. After the city demolished Metawa Park the game hasn't had a half decent place to play, Foothills Park is pure crap. Last week I started thinking about a very interesting location and design of a new 8,000 seat football park. It's a project I hope to work on once the semester is over. Since I think the idea is so cool I'll spill a few of the details, it'll be part of a TOD redevelopment close to the core, combine two completely different land-uses in what can only be described as a radical mixed-use project, and I drew my inspiration from the very innovative Belson Stadium in Jamica, New York. Stadium Info.

mersar · #5 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 8:43 PM**

The question though is the bus barns site part of the railtown development? Or is it simply next door?

If its the latter, if the city wanted to go this route (which I personally wouldn't expect them to try), all Remington could do is possibly complain, but thats about it.

skrish · #6 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 8:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distill3d

interesting idea. considering the 'Topes used to be the Calgary Cannons.

Personally a multi-use stadium would be a better concept (Soccer, high school Football) then a dall diamond. however, Josh is right here, its not going to happen, not there anyways.

Agreed. This city is in dier need of a new soccer/multi use stadium. Baseball isn't popular enough to warrant a new stadium.

krazycanuck · #7 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 8:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skrish

Agreed. This city is in dier need of a new soccer/multi use stadium. Baseball isn't popular enough to warrant a new stadium.

They made it work in Winnipeg with a new stadium! The same could have been said about their involvement with baseball before they got CanWest park.

krazycanuck · #8 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 8:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beltliner

Foothills Stadium is coming down the nanosecond after City Council commits to building the Crowchild-24 Street interchange.

I believe when the Vipers moved into foothills there was a 25 year lease signed, so the city couldn't tear down the stadium if they wanted to.

walli · #9 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 8:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skrish

Agreed. This city is in dier need of a new soccer/multi use stadium. Baseball isn't popular enough to warrant a new stadium.

Yeah ... we lost out getting Soccer under 20 world cup matches most recently, and that have been a long standing pattern. Has happened numerous times for various world cup qualifying matches. Edmonton get these things all the time. It is one of Calgary's biggest deficiencies!

http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/U20W...ner_legs&sub=9
"The FIFA U-20 World Cup Canada 2007 will take place from June 30 - July 22, 2007 in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Edmonton, Burnaby, and Victoria."

How about change the WLRT TOD at that ugly mall into a stadium instead?

Boris2k7 · #10 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 8:53 PM**

Well, if we wanted to go by popularity of sports here in Calgary, we would be better off spending money on better curling and lacrosse facilities long before soccer and baseball...

I remember I was volunteering at the Brier a few years back (I was also in a junior curling league at the time) and had a chance to watch a bit in the Dome. Thing is, that kind of facility is pretty good for hockey, not so much for curling. The Winter Club is nice but a little out of the way. The Calgary Curling Club (I think that's what is called) is just across the River on Memorial Drive but it doesn't have much seating.

Meh, I dislike watching curling anyways, it's just that it is still more popular than soccer and baseball here.

Distill3d · #11 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 8:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris550

Well, if we wanted to go by popularity of sports here in Calgary, we would be better off spending money on better curling and lacrosse facilities long before soccer and baseball...

Lacrosse is an outdoor sport, lets play it on our new multiuse facility

walli · #12 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 9:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris550

Well, if we wanted to go by popularity of sports here in Calgary, we would be better off spending money on better curling and lacrosse facilities long before soccer and baseball...

We have two large soccer centre complexes that would suggest otherwise. How many kids 12 and under play soccer? How many play lacrosse? Soccer is quite possibly the most, or second most, played sport in Calgary! No joke! Every soccer facility in Calgary is over-utilized, and there is no premier facility what so ever.

freeweed · #13 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 9:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazycanuck

They made it work in Winnipeg with a new stadium! The same could have been said about their involvement with baseball before they got CanWest park.

This cannot be repeated enough. Winnipeg's ballpark is the envy of every minor-league team (and many of the majors, other than seating capacity!).

Baseball really sucks here because the facilities are terrible. I used to go to 15-20 games every summer in the 'Peg, but I've been to maybe 3 since moving here. Foothills is a disgrace.

Although to be fair, Winnipeg was pretty supportive of their team already, even when it was playing in the endzone of the Bombers' stadium.

The only real hit against baseball here is that the evenings are so darned cold. Show up in shorts, go home in a jacket.

Boris2k7 · #14 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 9:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by walli

We have two large soccer centre complexes that would suggest otherwise. How many kids 12 and under play soccer? How many play lacrosse? Soccer is quite possibly the most, or second most, played sport in Calgary! No joke!

Most kids play soccer in fields and don't go on to be professionals. There's a big difference in facility requirements.

skrish · #15 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 9:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris550

Well, if we wanted to go by popularity of sports here in Calgary, we would be better off spending money on better curling and lacrosse facilities long before soccer and baseball...

I remember I was volunteering at the Brier a few years back (I was also in a junior curling league at the time) and had a chance to watch a bit in the Dome. Thing is, that kind of facility is pretty good for hockey, not so much for curling. The Winter Club is nice but a little out of the way. The Calgary Curling Club (I think that's what is called) is just across the River on Memorial Drive but it doesn't have much seating.

Meh, I dislike watching curling anyways, it's just that it is still more popular than soccer and baseball here.

Curling may be more popular in terms of viewership, but in terms of participating it does not come anywhere near the number of registered soccer players within the city. This is why a multi use outdoor facility would be a better choice.

Riise · #16 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 9:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris550

Well, if we wanted to go by popularity of sports here in Calgary, we would be better off spending money on better curling and lacrosse facilities long before soccer and baseball...

I think the biggest difference between footy and baseball in this city and country is the fact that baseball has already reached its peak popularity while football is no where close to reaching its peak, or post-peak stabilized level.

With regards to a multi-use stadium, I'm opposed. Why? Sightlines. A football match is easily ruined by poor sightlines caused by the presence of a track. I wouldn't mind lacrosse being included in a new footy park but I wouldn't include baseball or athletics. I believe the City and Stamps should invest in a new large scale multi-use stadium. It would allow the Stamps to play in a decent stadium and the city to host numerous events (both Athletics and International Football friendlies).

Distill3d · #17 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 9:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris550

Well, if we wanted to go by popularity of sports here in Calgary, we would be better off spending money on better curling and lacrosse facilities long before soccer....

Tell that to Owen Hargraves....

Riise · #18 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 9:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris550

Most kids play soccer in fields and don't go on to be professionals. There's a big difference in facility requirements.

That's because the Canadian Soccer Association and pretty much every Soccer Association or F.A. in Canada is shite and has absolutely no idea what they are doing. Calgary, as well as the rest of Canada, desperately needs infrastructure for the amateur level of the game. Crappy F.A. or not, we need the infrastructure! It's complete horse shit that due to there only being two indoor facilities I have to play games at 10:00 at night while the city is shitting out arenas like they eat a box of bran cereal a day.

walli · #19 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 9:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise

With regards to a multi-use stadium, I'm opposed. Why? Sightlines. A football match is easily ruined by poor sightlines caused by the presence of a track. I wouldn't mind lacrosse being included in a new footy park but I wouldn't include baseball or athletics. I believe the City and Stamps should invest in a new large scale multi-use stadium. It would allow the Stamps to play in a decent stadium and the city to host numerous events (both Athletics and International Football friendlies).

Football, soccer and lacrosse multi-use can work.

Beltliner · #20 Posted **Apr 10, 2007, 9:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise

With regards to a multi-use stadium, I'm opposed. Why? Sightlines. A football match is easily ruined by poor sightlines caused by the presence of a track.

Not to mention the clash between football and baseball sightlines. Exhibition Stadium in Toronto was an exercise in making chicken salad out of chicken--errm, feathers when it came to accommodating both the Argonauts and the Blue Jays.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise

I believe the City and Stamps should invest in a new large scale multi-use stadium. It would allow the Stamps to play in a decent stadium and the city to host numerous events (both Athletics and International Football friendlies).

My inclination would be to refurbish and expand McMahon Stadium from 35,600 to 50,000 one grandstand at a time. Seems a pity they didn't follow through with the plan they'd mooted before the Winter Olympics to tack upper decks onto the facility--even though the engineering and construction would have been pricey during the mid-80s, and astronomically expensive these days....