PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown III

[eschaton]

First Planning Commission presentation of the year is up! Four new items for next week, some of them relatively weighty.

1. A historic nomination of the former Carrick Municipal Hall at 1806 Brownsville Road. It was built in 1905 - one year after Carrick became a borough, and continued to be used until it was annexed by the City of Pittsburgh in 1927. As with all nominations, there is a plethora of historic detail for those curious.

2. A demolition permit to demolish two small condemned buildings downtown - 212 and 214 Boulevard of the Allies. Somewhat surprisingly, there is a rather long presentation by Rothschild Doyno attached, detailing the reasons for demolition. Somewhat ominously, it seems that a new owner now has most of the block, including these buildings, the parking lots, and intact but largely vacant buildings on Market Street and First Avenue. The presentation makes it clear the current owner would prefer to demolish all of these historic structures as well, consolidate the parcel, and market it for a "higher and better use." Surprisingly First Side does not have historic protection like Market Square and the Cultural District, so aside from these presentations before the Planning Commission there is little for them to do. Regardless, a big disappointment, considering this area includes a large portion of the remaining small-scale buildings downtown, and literally across Market Street a row of similar buildings were turned into multi-million dollar condominiums.

3. 316 Fourth Avenue - the Commonwealth Building - is being renovated to include 150 apartments and ground floor commercial. We have discussed this building before, but either it only went before ZBA or there was a less in-depth presentation in front of the Planning Commission. It looks like there will be a new rear egress shared with 319 third Avenue - making me wonder if the developer is the same for both projects. This building was under threat of demolition a few years back, so it's nice to see concrete plans.

4. Plans to renovate a small scale industrial building in far North Oakland into a six-unit residential building with a ground floor gym. This is a rather underutilized part of Oakland, so it's nice to see some more density, however incremental.

[Gilamonster]

Regarding point # 2

I was wondering when this was going to progress. The demo application was submitted in July of last year. I personally am glad to see it. I am not even close to the preservationist that many posters here are, but even so, I don't see much interesting to these buildings visually. I at least understand when people complain about buildings going away like the ones the new Point Park Playhouse replaced. I'm quite confident that I have a minority opinion here, but I'll be glad when they are gone. If there is a land assemblage happening there as you mentioned, then that bodes well for a large project happening at some point which I would look forward to.

[Jonboy1983]

Was the building immediately adjacent to that a recent renovation? Looks like they redid the facade to have it resemble an art deco type building from the '30s or '40s. I'd like to see something like this replace those two dilapidated buildings and the adjacent parking lot.

Gilamonster, I'm with you though that there's nothing particularly historically significant about those buildings. How large of a building ends up going in there I guess remains to be seen. However, given its location I doubt it's going to be too particularly large/tall. I'd say 20-25 floors tops, but I'm thinking somewhere in the 10-to-20 story range, so medium density...

[Gilamonster]

By Tim Schooley - Reporter, Pittsburgh Business Times
Jan 10, 2019, 2:47 pm EST Updated Jan 10, 2019, 6:08 pm EST

The Troiani family is pursuing a proposal to demolish its collection of largely late 19th century buildings in the vicinity of Market Square and Boulevard of the Allies, downtown.

Unoccupied for years but best known for one-time landmark restaurants such as the Troiani's Papa J's at 212-214 Boulevard of the Allies and the bar Froggy's on Market Street, the buildings are setting up a debate over the value of historic buildings versus the potential to build new, often larger developments.

The buildings are not in a city historic district and not subject to the Historic Review Commission but may contribute to a downtown historic district under the National Register of Historic Places guidelines.

Michael Troiani , whose family owns eight traditional main street buildings on the First Side edge of Market Square, said it's time to get rid of the buildings, which has been described as obsolete and a public safety risk.

"These buildings are tired and old and it's just the right thing to do," Troiani said of structures that he said he had faced major deterioration.

I have said there is "no economic benefit in trying to save these buildings" and added that they are "dangerous and unsafe and my intention is responsible stewardship."

His decision comes after previous investment to keep the buildings, including what he said was $ 100,000 investment in a new roof to the buildings known for Froggy's on Market Street to protect them from water damage.

Troiani has actively been meeting with the city as well as a host of organizations to discuss the buildings and the prospects of demolishing them, including the Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership, the Pittsburgh Downtown Development Corporation, and the Pittsburgh History and Landmarks Foundation, with a meeting with Preservation Pittsburgh also in the works.

He's working with Rothschild Doyno Collaborative on a survey of the collection of buildings to fully flesh out the reasoning for demolition.

"Adjoining narrow buildings have different heights, floor levels, and duplicate services, like stairs and bathrooms," the survey notes about the collection of buildings along Market Street. "Solid bearing walls with lighter capacity wood structure mean open office space, desired in today's market, is not reasonably achievable."

The plan is to tear down the smaller structures and to consolidate the land they are on a larger plot of 26,000 square feet on which a future development can be built. The site is in a downtown zoning district in which new buildings can be developed to 10 and 20 stories tall.

Arthur Ziegler , president of the Pittsburgh History & Landmarks Foundation, acknowledged meeting with Troiani a little more than a month ago.

He does not want to see the buildings down, describing them as among the oldest downtown.

"We certainly would not want to see that historic demolished area," said Ziegler.

Ziegler said he understood the challenges, financial and otherwise, of preserving and upgrading such smaller historic structures for new use, given his organization's role in redeveloping a host of similar-sized properties on the other side of Market Square and elsewhere in the Fifth and Forbes business district.

They would need public subsidy for the cost to make any economic sense, he admitted. Pittsburgh History & Landmarks received some state grant support on its downtown redevelopments.

"We know that all of the ones have (preserved and upgraded) have required considerable subsidy," said Ziegler of such historic preservation projects. "But after all, lots of new buildings in town get lots of subsidy."

Troiani argues the neighboring properties would be better served by having new development to replace the buildings there now, which will be difficult and expensive to make compliant with American Disabilities Act and International Building code requirements.

I have said the approval process for demolition has already been delayed and I have expressed frustration in the need to meet the demands of what I have described as a "vague community process that is not codified" instead of basic legal requirements.

"We're doing everything expected from us to be compliant," he said.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Gilamonster

Regarding point # 2

I was wondering when this was going to progress. The demo application was submitted in July of last year. I personally am glad to see it. I am not even close to the preservationist that many posters here are, but even so, I don't see much interesting to these buildings visually. I at least understand when people complain about buildings going away like the ones the new Point Park Playhouse replaced. I'm quite confident that I have a minority opinion here, but I'll be glad when they are gone. If there is a land assemblage happening there as you mentioned, then that bodes well for a large project happening at some point which I would look forward to.

As the Pittsburgh Business Times post makes clear, it's not just about these two buildings, which are in bad shape and undistinguished. It's also about these buildings on Market Street and this six-story building on First Avenue. They're all salvageable buildings and historically intact. It's almost a full block of intact 19th century structures on Market Street. This is probably the single biggest potential loss of historic structures since the last PNC tower was built - and it appears to be entirely for speculative reasons.

[BrianTH]

If it was up to me those buildings would be re-used because they are cool and add lots of character and interest to that part of Downtown. And once buildings like this are gone you can't get them back.

Still, if Downtown was all built up and someone wanted that land for a new skyscraper, I could see the debate.

But why are we even talking about tearing them down for nothing? There are still other development sites in Downtown just sitting idle because there is apparently not enough demand for new towers yet. If this is just about saving some maintenance costs or getting some parking revenue--heck, no.

[Wave]

The Market St. block would be an absolute tragedy to lose. It's the last intact 19th century, originally residential, block left downtown. You can't manufacture that sort of character and history. Cities that never had (or lost) that character have tried and failed to create the ambiance and interest that authentic history presents to the fabric of an urban area. These should be preserved period.

Less critical but still important, those two small seemingly anonymous and uninteresting buildings on the blvd of the allies not only have a colorful history ( I think a 19th century brothel was in one of them) they are one of only a handful of antebellum (pre civil war) buildings left downtown. They were documented years ago in a book on Pittsburgh's historical buildings. The footprint in terms of the entire development site it fractional and on the margins and would not prevent a development from going on that corner. I would understand if they were in the middle of a planned large development, but they seem to be on the edge of a very large site. At least the facades and the front 50% of depth should/could be salvaged or just the facades similar to what Walnut capital did in East Liberty.

I'm usually ok with demolishing older structures for the greater good & progress and very pro-development but in these particular cases, the stakeholders & city should truly consider the intangible cost of losing these structures.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

If it was up to me those buildings would be re-used because they are cool and add lots of character and interest to that part of Downtown. And once buildings like this are gone you can't get them back.

Still, if Downtown was all built up and someone wanted that land for a new skyscraper, I could see the debate.

But why are we even talking about tearing them down for nothing? There are still other development sites in Downtown just sitting idle because there is apparently not enough demand for new towers yet. If this is just about saving some maintenance costs or getting some parking revenue--heck, no.

[photoLith]

The Troiani Family can collectively go suck a dick, what a bunch of shit. I was just about to go to sleep but now my fucking blood is boiling. These buildings are tired and old, they said. Wtf is this shit 1953 mentality. Hopefully the Traoini Family somehow goes bankrupt and has no option other than to sell those buildings to a developer who actually sees the beauty and value in these 1830s-60s buildings and then they end up living under a damned underpass.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by photoLith

The Troiani Family can collectively go suck a dick, what a bunch of shit. I was just about to go to sleep but now my fucking blood is boiling. These buildings are tired and old, they said. Wtf is this shit 1953 mentality. Hopefully the Traoini Family somehow goes bankrupt and has no option other than to sell those buildings to a developer who actually sees the beauty and value in these 1830s-60s buildings and then they end up living under a damned underpass.

Some of their reasons for demolition seem like outright lies too. They site differing floor heights, for example, but it seems like the three buildings by the corner of Market and First have identical floor plates judging by the window heights being perfectly aligned. Perhaps the other buidling on Market Street as well. They were all used as a single club back in the 1980s (Froggy's) IIRC.

And once again, the building right across the street was rehabbed into a set of three townhouses which sold for $1.7 to $2 million. I'd prefer to see this block develop into a small retail corridor, but it shows that there would be a market for these buildings as high-quality residential conversions.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Gilamonster

By Tim Schooley - Reporter, Pittsburgh Business Times
Jan 10, 2019, 2:47 pm EST Updated Jan 10, 2019, 6:08 pm EST

The Troiani family is pursuing a proposal to demolish its collection of largely late 19th century buildings in the vicinity of Market Square and Boulevard of the Allies, downtown.

Unoccupied for years but best known for one-time landmark restaurants such as the Troiani's Papa J's at 212-214 Boulevard of the Allies and the bar Froggy's on Market Street, the buildings are setting up a debate over the value of historic buildings versus the potential to build new, often larger developments.

The buildings are not in a city historic district and not subject to the Historic Review Commission but may contribute to a downtown historic district under the National Register of Historic Places guidelines.

Michael Troiani , whose family owns eight traditional main street buildings on the First Side edge of Market Square, said it's time to get rid of the buildings, which has been described as obsolete and a public safety risk.

"These buildings are tired and old and it's just the right thing to do," Troiani said of structures that he said he had faced major deterioration.

I have said there is "no economic benefit in trying to save these buildings" and added that they are "dangerous and unsafe and my intention is responsible stewardship."

His decision comes after previous investment to keep the buildings, including what he said was $ 100,000 investment in a new roof to the buildings known for Froggy's on Market Street to protect them from water damage.

Troiani has actively been meeting with the city as well as a host of organizations to discuss the buildings and the prospects of demolishing them, including the Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership, the Pittsburgh Downtown Development Corporation, and the Pittsburgh History and Landmarks Foundation, with a meeting with Preservation Pittsburgh also in the works.

He's working with Rothschild Doyno Collaborative on a survey of the collection of buildings to fully flesh out the reasoning for demolition.

"Adjoining narrow buildings have different heights, floor levels, and duplicate services, like stairs and bathrooms," the survey notes about the collection of buildings along Market Street. "Solid bearing walls with lighter capacity wood structure mean open office space, desired in today's market, is not reasonably achievable."

The plan is to tear down the smaller structures and to consolidate the land they are on a larger plot of 26,000 square feet on which a future development can be built. The site is in a downtown zoning district in which new buildings can be developed to 10 and 20 stories tall.

Arthur Ziegler , president of the Pittsburgh History & Landmarks Foundation, acknowledged meeting with Troiani a little more than a month ago.

He does not want to see the buildings down, describing them as among the oldest downtown.

"We certainly would not want to see that historic demolished area," said Ziegler.

Ziegler said he understood the challenges, financial and otherwise, of preserving and upgrading such smaller historic structures for new use, given his organization's role in redeveloping a host of similar-sized properties on the other side of Market Square and elsewhere in the Fifth and Forbes business district.

They would need public subsidy for the cost to make any economic sense, he admitted. Pittsburgh History & Landmarks received some state grant support on its downtown redevelopments.

"We know that all of the ones have (preserved and upgraded) have required considerable subsidy," said Ziegler of such historic preservation projects. "But after all, lots of new buildings in town get lots of subsidy."

Troiani argues the neighboring properties would be better served by having new development to replace the buildings there now, which will be difficult and expensive to make compliant with American Disabilities Act and International Building code requirements.

I have said the approval process for demolition has already been delayed and I have expressed frustration in the need to meet the demands of what I have described as a "vague community process that is not codified" instead of basic legal requirements.

"We're doing everything expected from us to be compliant," he said.

Wow, they are really making themselves sound like saints. They are certain that these buildings are tired and unworkable. They are TRYING so hard to be good stewards but these poor old buildings just can't be salvaged.

"it's time to get rid of the buildings, which has been described as obsolete and a public safety risk." Yeah because you didn't take care of your buildings on purpose to get to this scenario.

What a crock.

[Gilamonster]

The Strip continues to be the hotbed of development in the Pittsburgh metro:


MARK BELKO
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
mbelko@post-gazette.com
JAN 11, 2019 7:00 AM

A Bridgeville developer’s gamble to start construction of the four-story District 15 office building in the Strip District last year without a tenant in hand paid off in a big way when it landed Facebook.

Now RDC Design + Build is ready to roll the dice again in the Strip — on an even grander scale.

RDC once again will team with Orangestar Properties of Mineral Ridge, Ohio, near Youngstown to build a “signature office tower” on Buncher Company-owned property at 15th and Smallman streets next door to District 15.

And like the last one, they are doing so without a tenant in hand, convinced that the demand for space in the Strip, one of the hottest markets in the region, will work to their advantage.

“We’re very confident in the amount of interest that we’ve had to date for this project,” said Shawn Fox, RDC president.

The nine-story building, dubbed District 15 Beta Version, will feature 205,000 square feet of office space, 5,000 square feet of street-level food and beverage, and a unique two-story 20,000-square-foot flex space facing Smallman that can be deployed either for retail or research and development.

Article continued at:

https://www.post-gazette.com/busines...s/201901110082

[chucka]

Here are the images:

Originally Posted by Gilamonster

The Strip continues to be the hotbed of development in the Pittsburgh metro:


MARK BELKO
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
mbelko@post-gazette.com
JAN 11, 2019 7:00 AM

A Bridgeville developer’s gamble to start construction of the four-story District 15 office building in the Strip District last year without a tenant in hand paid off in a big way when it landed Facebook.

Now RDC Design + Build is ready to roll the dice again in the Strip — on an even grander scale.

RDC once again will team with Orangestar Properties of Mineral Ridge, Ohio, near Youngstown to build a “signature office tower” on Buncher Company-owned property at 15th and Smallman streets next door to District 15.

And like the last one, they are doing so without a tenant in hand, convinced that the demand for space in the Strip, one of the hottest markets in the region, will work to their advantage.

“We’re very confident in the amount of interest that we’ve had to date for this project,” said Shawn Fox, RDC president.

The nine-story building, dubbed District 15 Beta Version, will feature 205,000 square feet of office space, 5,000 square feet of street-level food and beverage, and a unique two-story 20,000-square-foot flex space facing Smallman that can be deployed either for retail or research and development.

Article continued at:

https://www.post-gazette.com/busines...s/201901110082

[dfiler]

My take on those market street buildings... They're nice but much too low density and not historic enough to merit saving in this location. This land would be best used for larger, taller buildings.

Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who is extremely in favor of preservation. By allowing density in this location, hopefully we can better preserve more intact blocks found elsewhere in the city. Keeping them would likely mean a tiny number of ultra-expensive residential units. My preference would be to have larger structures with more affordable apartments or condos above street level commercial/business space. Or perhaps a larger footprint business tower. Pittsburgh needs that type of development and if it has to go somewhere, this is a good location.

Edit:
But yeah, i too am opposed to tearing them down to be replaced with something of similar height.

[Urbanthusiat]

Wow, the Strip District is on fire. That new building looks great. It seems like Pittsburgh is getting a lot more medium-scale office ground-up development than Philly these days. Philly is getting a lot of re-use of space, but not a ton of new construction other than a handful of really big developments.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by dfiler

My take on those market street buildings... They're nice but much too low density and not historic enough to merit saving in this location. This land would be best used for larger, taller buildings.

Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who is extremely in favor of preservation. By allowing density in this location, hopefully we can better preserve more intact blocks found elsewhere in the city. Keeping them would likely mean a tiny number of ultra-expensive residential units. My preference would be to have larger structures with more affordable apartments or condos above street level commercial/business space. Or perhaps a larger footprint business tower. Pittsburgh needs that type of development and if it has to go somewhere, this is a good location.

Edit:
But yeah, i too am opposed to tearing them down to be replaced with something of similar height.

There have been cases where I have been in favor of demolishing historic structures for higher and better use. I think it was worth it to demolish six (mostly chopped up) homes around the corner of Centre Avenue and N Dithridge in Oakland, considering we got a 329-unit apartment built on the site. It expanded the housing supply, and likely helped to convert more homes into student rentals.

The issue in this case is the buildings might be torn down for absolutely nothing. There is no project lined up here, and Burns Scallo has attempted for years to market a surface lot just two blocks away on Fort Pitt Boulevard with no takers. We could lose all seven buildings in the next few years, and just see empty gravel or the surface parking lot expanded.

I am not 100% opposed to demolishing the two condemned buildings if third parties agree they are beyond reasonable hope of salvage. But the other five absolutely should not meet the wrecking ball unless the entire group of parcels is already under agreement, and the general public gets to have a debate over the merits of the project.

[BrianTH]

That new Strip building looks pretty good. I was concerned about the low-rise section but seeing it next to the bridge, I get it.

In fact that picture with the bridge, Downtown, and the Hill in the background is just so distinctively Pittsburgh. Which reminds me, though, that a restored incline from the Strip to the Hill would be awesome.

Which further reminds me--this BBC slideshow on aerial gondolas has some fantastic images:

http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20...rban-cable-car

Chris Briem linked it, so I declare further linking it here has a Pittsburgh connection and is not just me being obsessive.

[BenM]

I think it's been over a year since the Penguins got an extension on their development rights to the old Civic Arena site. Has there been any progress since then?

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Wow, the Strip District is on fire. That new building looks great. It seems like Pittsburgh is getting a lot more medium-scale office ground-up development than Philly these days. Philly is getting a lot of re-use of space, but not a ton of new construction other than a handful of really big developments.

Yeah, Pittsburgh has a lot more medium density office district zones in the city than Philly I feel like.

For Philly, the office zones are either Center City or University City (which are high density zones), or the Navy Yard (which is a low density zone). The mid-density office zones outside of that are practically outside of the city: Bala Cynwyd, King of Prussia, Malvern, Conshohocken, Plymouth Meeting, etc.

Literally the only mid-density office building I can think of under construction in Philly is 3.0 University Place, which is technically West Philly, just on the border of University City.
http://www.mpnrealty.com/listing/30-...nt-space-lease

The rest is all 10 floors or more or 3-4 floors.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by chucka

Here are the images:

Fantastic development!

[WillyC]

Originally Posted by eschaton

There is no project lined up here, and Burns Scallo has attempted for years to market a surface lot just two blocks away on Fort Pitt Boulevard with no takers.

Burns Scallo are just a bunch of pusses. As with the new Strip building, RDC is on building number two without a tenant already signed at the start. Companies moving into the city aren't wanting to wait two years to have a building built, they need space now.