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  #21  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2009, 8:25 PM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
Wasn't following 100% but it sounded like there was an amended motion to reduce height that lost on a tie and there ended up being no real recommendation (just that Council consider the application)
You got it perfectly. Wait until you read what happened on the Orville Station OMB issue with Doucet misreading the motion and then changing his vote. Qadri was not thrilled.
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  #22  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2009, 1:15 AM
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You got it perfectly. Wait until you read what happened on the Orville Station OMB issue with Doucet misreading the motion and then changing his vote. Qadri was not thrilled.
I kind of hoped that Qadri would vote against the motion to waive procedural rules/change Doucet's vote the other week Diane Holmes went into a rant about other councillors approving tall buildings in her ward at a poor resident who wanted Committee to support a reduction in height for a project in Kanata North... wish I could have seen the guy's face.
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  #23  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2009, 1:20 AM
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I kind of hoped that Qadri would vote against the motion to waive procedural rules/change Doucet's vote
It was real sour grapes on the part of Qadri to deny the right to redo the vote. The reality of it all is that the City Council position (if they decide to fight this at the OMB) will be a losing position and the City will be $20/$25K in the hole on this and they will be fighting City Planners who will be there in support of the application. City Planning said that even if this was a ZBLA they would still support the application.
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  #24  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 8:44 PM
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Planning decisions: No logic required
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/busines...411/story.html

BY RANDALL DENLEY, THE OTTAWA CITIZENSEPTEMBER 10, 2009


It must take a great sense of humour to be a developer in this city. Any consequential project they propose must be approved by a city planning committee that doesn't believe in the main principle of its official plan, is unwilling to take its staff's professional device and is deeply distrustful of developers. These would be the same city councillors who think a compromise consists of some numbers they pull out of the air and who are undaunted by the price the public will pay when yet another of their illogical interventions is defeated at the Ontario Municipal Board.

The committee was in vintage form this week when it was asked to approve a plan to replace 84 rental townhouses in the Baseline Road-Morrison Drive area with various high and low-rise buildings totalling 334 units. The buildings abutting other residences were three and four storeys, with six- and eight-storey buildings fronting on Baseline and a 12-storey tower in the centre of the development.

The plan ought to be have been a slam dunk, considering the central idea in the city official plan. Councillors have restricted suburban expansion based on the theory that the needs of about 60,000 new home buyers can be met over the next dozen years by intensifying existing urban areas. That's precisely what this plan will do. Logic would suggest that any kind of significant intensification means higher buildings, and this is an area that already features several large high-rise towers. City staff supported the plan, which was a compromise from the developer's original proposal for 537 units and buildings as tall as 20 storeys.

At planning committee, however, decisions aren't always based on logic.

Instead, those decisions are based on neighbourhood opinion, and the people who live near the planned development don't like it. They made that point perfectly clear in numerous presentations. It seems that most of the neighbours are professional engineers armed with PowerPoint presentations and laser pointers. Even the people in other socio-economic strata came equipped with slideshows.

The highlight was the intervention of Wolfhard Geile, PhD, who said he was the group's scientific advisor. To summarize, tall buildings are bad for both people and the environment. Cancer is certainly a possibility.

Presenters also elicited great sympathy from socially-concerned councillors by stressing the unfairness of a landlord wanting to redevelop his property to the detriment of existing tenants. While it's true that eliminating the existing townhomes will be bad for the tenants, that's life as a renter. The alternative is to compel landlords to provide low-cost rental housing forever. Councillors would favour this, of course. In addition to all the other alleged deficiencies of this plan, it would create unbearable traffic and cause sewers to back up, neighbours say. Councillors accepted the views of residents as gospel on these matters, while the city's professional staff did little to rebut the criticisms or explain why they supported the project. John Moser, the city's planning chief, had nothing to say as another of his staff's recommendations was not accepted by councillors.

Regulating planning and development is one of city council's most important functions. It shapes our city. Yet, we have councillors who support intensification only until someone doesn't like it, know little about the economics of the development industry and are quick to shirk their responsibilities.

When councillors approved an official plan that would mean more housing in existing neighbourhoods, it was clear the neighbours wouldn't always like it. That doesn't make it a bad policy. The problem is that councillors favour intensification in theory, but not in practice. It takes some courage for a councillor to explain to angry neighbours why a locally unpopular development is a good idea in the grand scheme of things. Alternatively, he can orchestrate local opposition to thwart city policies, which Councillor Rick Chiarelli has done.

Councillors tried to preserve some kind of intellectual integrity by saying they would support moderate intensification, which might be defined as the type that isn't enough for developers to make any money. By calling for six-storey buildings, for example, they are obligating developers to install expensive elevators, but not giving them enough units to make the expenditure worthwhile. Councillors say they are concerned about affordable housing, but compelling the developer to have fewer units on the site guarantees that he will have to raise the price to make a profit.

Despite extensive discussion, a half-baked compromise that would have produced more height than the neighbours want and fewer units than the site should deliver was defeated on a tied vote. Councillor Clive Doucet actually seemed content to let the matter go the OMB so the community and the developer can duke it out if "that's their trip." That's a complete abdication of the decision-making responsibility councillors have repeatedly said they want. The "trip" of Doucet and his colleagues is to make tough decisions in keeping with their policies, even when some people disagree.

Contact Randall Denley at 596-3756 or by e-mail, rdenley@thecitizen.canwest.com

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
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  #25  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
Planning decisions: No logic required
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/busines...411/story.html

BY RANDALL DENLEY, THE OTTAWA CITIZENSEPTEMBER 10, 2009


It must take a great sense of humour to be a developer in this city. Any consequential project they propose must be approved by a city planning committee that doesn't believe in the main principle of its official plan, is unwilling to take its staff's professional device and is deeply distrustful of developers. These would be the same city councillors who think a compromise consists of some numbers they pull out of the air and who are undaunted by the price the public will pay when yet another of their illogical interventions is defeated at the Ontario Municipal Board.


The problem is that councillors favour intensification in theory, but not in practice. It takes some courage for a councillor to explain to angry neighbours why a locally unpopular development is a good idea in the grand scheme of things. Alternatively, he can orchestrate local opposition to thwart city policies, which Councillor Rick Chiarelli has done.

Without getting into a Lowell Green type rant about those lefties and liberals on Council, this article hit the nose on the head regarding the frustrations of dealing with City Council. The part about Council not trusting their planners etc rang very true on this matter. Chiarelli was in fine form rounding up the troops in the hallway. Good luck at the OMB on this one City Council.
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  #26  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2009, 5:25 PM
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Problems build on lack of details

Council must stick to intensification, but give residents more information

BY RANDALL DENLEY, THE OTTAWA CITIZENSEPTEMBER 15, 2009


Councillors will be asked next week to approve a 334-unit intensification project on Baseline Road just west of Greenbank Road. The mix of low, medium and highrise buildings is strongly opposed by people in the neighbourhood, but the developer and city planning staff say it's just the kind of intensification called for by the city's official plan and provincial planning policy.

The planning committee couldn't decide what to do, so now it's over to full council, where members will have even less background than the planning committee did. We have to do better than this, and we can.

Last week, I wrote about the way the planning committee fumbled this issue and some of the over-the-top arguments made by those opposed to the plan. That made me a lightning rod for angry neighbours. One woman set a record by complaining about my column before it was even published.

Despite some people's perception, I'm not on anyone's side in this issue. I do think that if the city approves a policy calling for intensification to make up much of its growth, there is an onus on councillors to follow through. I am also convinced that there is a way to handle development applications that will be better for communities, developers and city politicians.

The city's intensification policy is a good one in that it helps restrain suburban sprawl, but councillors and planning staff should accept as a given that neighbours will be opposed to plans that increase traffic and change the nature of their communities.

The city's first job should be to get the facts out in a way that people can understand. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

The city includes on its website all the supporting engineering and planning studies for developments like the one on Baseline. That's good, but it also means that skeptical residents will read all this fine print and use it as ammunition. In this case, residents are citing an engineering study that supposedly says that sewer pipes can't handle the flow from the development and houses will be flooded. What it actually says is that the problem can be fixed by replacing 325 metres of pipe. The developer will pay for this. Staff at the planning committee last week failed to explain that.

The skepticism of the public and most of the councillors on the planning committee also makes it difficult to agree on the facts and have an intelligent debate. The skepticism is partly driven by the fact that developers pay for the planning, traffic and servicing studies for their proposals. This causes the public and councillors to dismiss the studies' conclusions if they don't like what they hear. The solution is for the city to retain the consultants and bill the developers, so the consultants are clearly working for the public. It is unlikely to change the content of their reports, but it will boost their credibility.

City councillors also have to accept some responsibility for mediating between developers and the community while showing respect for their own policies. In this case, Councillor Rick Chiarelli has helped inflame the community to give him leverage to reach an unspecified compromise. If he had been doing his job, many of his residents' concerns would have been answered before the planning committee met. For example, many failed to understand that the height allowed in the neighbourhood now is a default amount, not a negotiated deal that is being betrayed.

City planning staff need to up their game, too. It's not enough to give bland, generic assurances that a plan is worthy of approval. On the sewer matter, staff's report says existing underground services are available. That's not entirely accurate. People expect specifics, not a "trust us, we're experts" approach.

In front of the planning committee itself, everyone gets five minutes to speak. Often that means that the person proposing the development gets his few minutes up front and then councillors hear from a long lineup of those opposed. Developers need a fairer opportunity to answer the criticisms of the public.

It's not like intensification can't be done properly. A similar intensification in Alta Vista was recently approved. The height limit wasn't a big issue there because the developer had a right to go up, but the city employed an outside architect from Toronto to work with all the parties and make sure things were done in a way that was acceptable to the community. The neutral third party should be part of any contested project.

Above all, people need to remember the big picture. The city is growing and new residents have to live somewhere. Any kind of growth will mean more cars on streets and more demand on services. People have a perfect right to push for high-quality intensification, but they should acknowledge that growth is inevitable. It can't all go in someone else's neighbourhood.

The bottom line is that we all need to stick to the demonstrable facts and work within the rules that are set by our elected councillors. The alternative is to let the Ontario Municipal Board decide Ottawa planning issues because we haven't the maturity to do it ourselves.

Contact Randall Denley at 613-596-3756 or by e-mail, rdenley@thecitizen.canwest.com

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
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  #27  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2009, 2:28 PM
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At council today
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  #28  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 3:17 AM
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A neighbourhood redevelopment involving three mid-rise towers was approved by city council Wednesday.
 
 
SEPTEMBER 23, 2009 11:02 PM
 
 
OTTAWA-Residents and neighbours of the Redwood community — bounded by Baseline Road, Morrison Drive and Draper Avenue — were upset about the development, which originally had a tower of 20 storeys. The Regional Group brought the buildings down to a 12-storey, an eight-storey and a six-storey building.

The 334 condominiums will replace 84 townhouses.

The company has done about 2,000 conversions of rental units to condominiums in Ottawa. It has agreed to have current tenants buy units in the new buildings, but with monthly payments as low as rent.

The company has also agreed to offer small office leases to condominium owners in the buildings and to build commercial space at the ground level to accommodate several small stores or restaurants.

College Councillor Rick Chiarelli said he would meet with residents and urge them to accept this development rather than try to fight it at the Ontario Municipal Board

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http://www.ottawacitizen.com/busines...1/story.html 
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  #29  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 2:07 PM
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I have no particular views on this project, but am puzzled about the last bit in this report re Chiarelli. Unless he is trying to save the developer time and money (after they appear to have gone through considerable hoops to satisfy the neighbourhood demands), why would he care if private citizens take a development to the OMB (where I assume they would lose)? Seems like micro-management to me, but perhaps I do not understand the report.
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  #30  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 8:42 PM
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Still disappointing about the outcome, should have gone with the initial proposal instead of crumbling to NIMBYISM.
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  #31  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2009, 5:20 PM
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appealed to the OMB
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  #32  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2009, 10:15 PM
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appealed to the OMB
By the community?
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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2010, 3:08 PM
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Site Plan Control up for approval. Looks like this one will be going ahead.

http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/...appId=__7XEF8I

Cheers,
Josh
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2010, 4:42 PM
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OMB site is showing a hearing beginning 11 May 2010.
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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2010, 3:22 PM
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Here are the latest elevations:








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  #36  
Old Posted May 17, 2010, 1:56 PM
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Looks like the OMB appeal has been withdrawn and the zoning application approved now just the Site Plan approval is required. Its not bad density wise in this area and I think there is the opportunity to continue this trend, if a BRT route were to go in along Baseline I can see this area growing especially if there was fast transit to college square (groceries).

Cheers,
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  #37  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2010, 1:41 AM
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City decision could pave way for Redwood development
Posted Sep 16, 2010
BY STEPH WILLEMS
http://www.emcbarrhaven.ca/20100916/...od+development

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EMC News - A proposal is being considered by the city's planning and growth management department that calls on the city to lift the holding zone on a Baseline Rd. property scheduled for development.

The 2.2 acre site, bounded by Baseline Rd., Draper Ave., and Morrison Dr., is owned by Redwood Residences Ltd. and managed by The Regional Group. The developer is proposing a 334 unit project that would include three condominium towers of no more than 12 stories, a dramatic decrease from its earlier proposal of 537 units, a 20-storey tower and two 14-storey towers.

That proposal, which was made public in 2008, saw nearby residents rise up in anger to protest what they said was a grossly oversized development that would overwhelm their residential community. The developer subsequently downsized the proposal to include a 12-storey, eight-storey and six-storey tower - a proposal that was approved by council in Sept. 2009.

The lifting of the holding zone would allow the developer to move forward with condo sales and construction plans.

College ward Coun. Rick Chiarelli said one difference between the current proposal and the city-approved proposal is the elimination of one access point to the property. He said that residents in the area remain pleased that they were able to have the project's size reduced by 40%.

"There was a little bit of an attempt on the part of the developer to go back on that - he tried to appeal his own zoning-bylaw," said Coun. Chiarelli. "So we beat that back, and now the only change is the access - the one access that people were skeptical about, because it didn't line up with Guthrie."

The elimination means that the property will have one access point. Site plan controls for phase one of the project can be expected before committee and council by late November or December of this year, said Coun. Chiarelli.

Phase one of the project will likely be the eight-story building, closest to Baseline Rd. Regional Group has previously done about 2,000 conversions of rental units to condominiums in Ottawa, this project will cater to buyers in the high-end condo market. Residents displaced by the development will also be able to buy units in the new building with monthly payments as low as their current rent.

For the first time in Ottawa, buyers in the development will have the option to lease small offices contained within the building, thus allowing some tenants to live and work in the same building.

"So you'll buy a condo unit...and get first dibs on renting an office," said Coun. Chiarelli.

It remains to be seen how quickly the condo units will sell at their high-end prices, which will determine how quickly nearby residents will see construction begin. A high-end 10-storey condo building was once proposed by Richcraft Homes at Baseline Rd. and Centrepointe Dr. and flopped when it hit the marketplace, leading the developer to pull out of that location and focus its efforts elsewhere.

Since the plug was pulled on that development, however, the plans for the Centrepointe Town Centre have been released. A cohesive vision for the community, construction of which is well underway, might make the location more attractive to buyers now than it was before.

A decision is on the proposal is expected to be handed down by a manager within the planning and growth management department by Sept. 13.

swillems@theemc.ca
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  #38  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2010, 3:27 AM
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I wonder if the Minto properties on Baseline, just west of Woodroffe and the Transitway will get the same treatment.

Right now they're somewhat run down looking low-rises, but it would be a great spot for some density. Walking distance from Baseline Station and College Square, as well as the density the city is planning for the undeveloped chunks of land on the east side of the Centrepointe community.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2012, 11:43 PM
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Developer is now proposing up to 590 units

City press release
http://ottawa.ca/cgi-bin/pressco.pl?...=17375&lang=en

Quote:
City moves to cap size of Redwood development

Ottawa – The City of Ottawa’s Planning Department is recommending a zoning change to cap the number of units built at the Redwood community in College Ward after the developer submitted an application that increased the size of the project by more than 75 per cent.

The site, bounded by Baseline Road, Morrison Drive and Draper Avenue, was approved by Planning Committee and City Council for 334 residential units after extensive community discussion and input in 2009. However, a revised application from the developer has made the proposed buildings larger and radically upped the number of units to 590.

The Planning Department is recommending a zoning amendment that will ensure the original agreement on size of the development will stand.

“This project went through an extensive planning process and a great deal of public debate. The agreement that resulted between the community, developer and the City cannot be arbitrarily overturned on a technicality, after the fact, by the proponent,” said Mayor Jim Watson.

“This developer came to Planning Committee with a concept plan that eventually secured our agreement for a zoning change. Now the company is attempting to throw out the concept plan. That’s wrong and we cannot allow it to happen,” said Councillor Peter Hume, chair of Planning Committee.

“I am delighted that the City’s Planning Department has agreed that almost doubling the size of this project would not be fair to the people of my ward,” said College Ward

Councillor Rick Chiarelli. “We had an agreement. If Planning Committee and Council agree to this zoning, that agreement will stand.”

The matter will go before Planning Committee on January 10 and City Council on January 25.
City staff recommending capping the # of units
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...d%20Draper.htm

Developer's response

Quote:
A proposed condominium complex near Baseline and Greenbank roads won’t make financial sense if the city government caps the number of units allowed there at 334, says the project’s lead planner.
Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ca...#ixzz1iRSGcrfV
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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2012, 4:49 AM
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"Won't make financial sense"??

With 334 units? I somehow doubt that.
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