[Halifax] The Dillon (Market Lofts) | 28 m | 8 fl | Completed

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I'm a big supporter of our universities (I work for one) but post-secondary institutions in North America are among the worst offenders for institutional over-expansion and over-building. NSCAD's over-extension of its resources across multiple properties is a classic example.

Dal's long-term plan is another: Why does a university with a slow-growing student body (i.e., almost all Canadian universities, given the country's demographics) need so much more square footage? And who's footing the bill? Taxpayers and students, mainly, especially the latter. Universities in Canada and especially the U.S. are getting so expensive, relative to the payoff they provide, that they're at real risk of being spurned in favour of vocational schools. Or in favour of nothing at all. They're at risk of rendering themselves obsolete to a huge portion of the public who simply will be unable to access them.

But, every new universty president wants to come in and leave his or her mark with a signature building or plan, of some kind. My alma mater, Ryerson University, is going through this right now and it's dismaying to see it trying to become some sort of U of T-lite.

Anyway, blah blah, it's too bad NSCAD can't simpy confine itself to properties it can take care of and focus on curriculum and what it does well.

I don't think Dalhousie has been expanding its footprint unreasonably. It hasn't really have significant capital investment / building since the 1960s era expansions; you have to re-build infrastructure at some point.

Plus, Dalhousie has been going hard at fundraising.

NSCAD is an entirely different kettle of fish. It is poor, badly in debt, can't cover its operating costs, has too many expensive properties, and is dismal at fundraising.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Dal's long-term plan is another: Why does a university with a slow-growing student body (i.e., almost all Canadian universities, given the country's demographics) need so much more square footage?

This is interesting. I went to Dal in the early 2000's and at that time enrollment was growing but there had been relatively little new construction. The university felt crowded and many of the spaces were old; the new buildings that went up were badly needed. Some of the old buildings that have been demolished, like the management building (which used to be attached to a church), were really awful inside.

I found this article on 2014 enrollment: http://dalgazette.com/news/campus/en...how-about-dal/

It turns out that Dal enrollment has gone up by 23% since 2014 (over 18,500 now), while other universities in NS dropped on average. That implies building a lot of new facilities for students. The university's research programs, incubators, etc. might be expanding as well. I remember when people used to talk about Dal having 10,000 students or so, and prior to about the 1970's it was regarded as a fairly small school.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

This is interesting. I went to Dal in the early 2000's and at that time enrollment was growing but there had been relatively little new construction. The university felt crowded and many of the spaces were old; the new buildings that went up were badly needed. Some of the old buildings that have been demolished, like the management building (which used to be attached to a church), were really awful inside.

I found this article on 2014 enrollment: http://dalgazette.com/news/campus/en...how-about-dal/

It turns out that Dal enrollment has gone up by 23% since 2014 (over 18,500 now), while other universities in NS dropped on average. That implies building a lot of new facilities for students. The university's research programs, incubators, etc. might be expanding as well. I remember when people used to talk about Dal having 10,000 students or so, and prior to about the 1970's it was regarded as a fairly small school.

I stand corrected on the Dal front, then. (Still, a lot of my antipathy comes from the Master Plan's architectural issues: Turning the Killam into a glass box, or potentially tearing down the CRC for a building that'd only be a couple of storeys taller, etc.)

I definitely still think universities including Dal are far too ready to jump at anything with a LEED designation that looks like it could pass for some starchitect's napkin scribblings. i.e. , Ryerson's glass Borg cube.

But, it looks like I may have been hasty in condemning Dal in this case. Didn't know the student numbers were up--I'd conflated it with other schools in Ontario and elsewhere in NS where numbers are stagnant.

[alps]

I don't understand why Dalhousie bought the third Sister Site. They already sit on so much unused land.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I stand corrected on the Dal front, then. (Still, a lot of my antipathy comes from the Master Plan's architectural issues: Turning the Killam into a glass box, or potentially tearing down the CRC for a building that'd only be a couple of storeys taller, etc.)

Agreed. I think it would be unfortunate if all or most of Dal's 60's and 70's architecture were turned into generic glass boxes.

Originally Posted by alps

I don't understand why Dalhousie bought the third Sister Site. They already sit on so much unused land.

Apparently they are incorporating it into plans to build a new building on the Sexton campus (IDEA building).

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I stand corrected on the Dal front, then. (Still, a lot of my antipathy comes from the Master Plan's architectural issues: Turning the Killam into a glass box, or potentially tearing down the CRC for a building that'd only be a couple of storeys taller, etc.)

I definitely still think universities including Dal are far too ready to jump at anything with a LEED designation that looks like it could pass for some starchitect's napkin scribblings. i.e. , Ryerson's glass Borg cube.

But, it looks like I may have been hasty in condemning Dal in this case. Didn't know the student numbers were up--I'd conflated it with other schools in Ontario and elsewhere in NS where numbers are stagnant.

I really hope they wouldn't tear down the CRC, it's one of their most beautiful buildings. I can't see that happening.

The land they've acquired downtown around SGR, is just part of their expanding that particular "campus", which will focus on health/policy/etc.

I'd prefer other developments there, but I honestly don't see a big problem, so long as they actually use the land, rather than just leaving surface parking.

[Metalsales]

CRC as well as the Tupper building were slated to have all the windows replaced with much more energy efficient products. There were bids and Dalhousie has taken a small step back on these at the moment due to budgeting(so im told)

They would not consider tearing a building down after putting that work into it

There is already a designer working with Dal on the IDEA building. Not sure the timeline, but I don't think it will be that long before we start hearing more on this

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Metalsales

CRC as well as the Tupper building were slated to have all the windows replaced with much more energy efficient products. There were bids and Dalhousie has taken a small step back on these at the moment due to budgeting(so im told)

They would not consider tearing a building down after putting that work into it

It's in the master plan as a "maybe" (i.e., it will happen only if needed.) See page 19 of the master plan document.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Metalsales

CRC as well as the Tupper building were slated to have all the windows replaced with much more energy efficient products. There were bids and Dalhousie has taken a small step back on these at the moment due to budgeting(so im told)

They would not consider tearing a building down after putting that work into it

There is already a designer working with Dal on the IDEA building. Not sure the timeline, but I don't think it will be that long before we start hearing more on this

Dal is still paying Tom Traves $400,000/year; he gets a year's salary for every 5 years at Dal when he retired, so they may have wait a bit on those windows. Full time tuition at Dal in 1976 at dal was $780; not hard to figure where all the tuition now goes, but ain't those buildings purty.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by JET

Dal is still paying Tom Traves $400,000/year; he gets a year's salary for every 5 years at Dal when he retired, so they may have wait a bit on those windows. Full time tuition at Dal in 1976 at dal was $780; not hard to figure where all the tuition now goes, but ain't those buildings purty.

Yes, the Traves revelation is pretty bad. Report today is that he will receive $1.3 million in payments for 3 years after he stepped down. And that is not his pension,, which starts after that. Shameful abuse of the taxpayer.

[Jonovision]

Shouldn't this discussion be happening in a Dal related thread?

[Ziobrop]

from http://marketlofts.builthalifax.ca/:



Its started, basement is dug out to 11'.
Eta to finish is a year.

[bluenoser]

Thanks for the picture and info, Ziobrop. That's quite a timeline; should be done around the same time as the Nova Centre next door.

I love that they're keeping the original structure. Should be very interesting to see how this turns out!

[Jonovision]

Are they still planning to do this without a tower crane?

More construction hoarding went up today and the sales centre was ripped out.

[someone123]

Apparently this one isn't going to have parking? I also seem to recall reading that granite cladding will be used. Hopefully that'll go at least on the new 3 storey podium portion.

It's interesting how many projects are happening on Sackville Street, including the Pavilion on South Park. If you include projects nearby on Barrington I count about 8 in total. Still nothing on the United Gulf site though!

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by someone123

It turns out that Dal enrollment has gone up by 23% since 2014 (over 18,500 now), while other universities in NS dropped on average. That implies building a lot of new facilities for students. The university's research programs, incubators, etc. might be expanding as well. I remember when people used to talk about Dal having 10,000 students or so, and prior to about the 1970's it was regarded as a fairly small school.

That stat is misleading though. They very nicely blurred the lines in the article you quoted, as saying that the "growth" came mostly from the core campus and not the agricultural, but that was only with reference to the year over year. However, the large growth stat (23% growth since 2002 to get to 18,531) does include the almost 1000 students that came from Dal taking on the agricultural college, and given that it was referenced relative to 2002 might also include the absorption of TUNS and Kings (I can't remember the exact date as to when they were absorbed).

[someone123]

Originally Posted by beyeas

That stat is misleading though. They very nicely blurred the lines in the article you quoted, as saying that the "growth" came mostly from the core campus and not the agricultural, but that was only with reference to the year over year. However, the large growth stat (23% growth since 2002 to get to 18,531) does include the almost 1000 students that came from Dal taking on the agricultural college, and given that it was referenced relative to 2002 might also include the absorption of TUNS and Kings (I can't remember the exact date as to when they were absorbed).

The TUNS merger was announced in 1997 and as far as I can tell all of the reorganization was done by 2001.

I don't think that Dal enrollment number includes King's College. It is still a separate institution from what I can tell, with about 1,000 students. The agricultural college had about 800 before the merger, so it would have accounted for 1/5 or so of the change.

[Jonovision]

From this afternoon.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by bluenoser

I love that they're keeping the original structure. Should be very interesting to see how this turns out!

[Jstaleness]

I know some of our friends in Toronto would be happy to see this. Sadly we all complain about old or "heritage" buildings but here is an example of how we get to once again have both.