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  #181  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2011, 10:30 PM
J. Will J. Will is offline
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Originally Posted by nec209 View Post
wow I never seen this in the US . Talk about car centric to the extreme.


This must be a Toronto thing.
In the U.S. the stores would be set way back from the street behind surface parking instead. And no, it is not a "Toronto thing". This model can be found in hundreds of cities.
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  #182  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2011, 10:39 PM
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Much of the new retail in suburban Toronto looks like the picture below I took from Google Streetview. The buildings will come to (or close to) the sidewalk, and the stores will sometimes have windows facing the sidewalk, but often the stores will have no entrance from the sidewalk, and you have to walk around to the parking lot side to access the store.

I never seen this in the US .

I was just saying this must be a Toronto thing.

Anyone know what other cities are starting to do this?
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  #183  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2011, 10:40 PM
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In the U.S. the stores would be set way back from the street behind surface parking instead. And no, it is not a "Toronto thing". This model can be found in hundreds of cities.
Got any pictures or know what cities are starting to do this new trend?
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  #184  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2011, 12:00 AM
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Got any pictures or know what cities are starting to do this new trend?
Edmonton has got a bit of this.
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  #185  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2011, 5:38 PM
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Main Street making a comeback at the expense of the shopping mall


November 20, 2011

By Jonathan O’Connell

Read More: http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...hfN_story.html

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.....

Development of new malls has almost completely stopped, with only two being erected in the country since the beginning of 2009, according to the International Council of Shopping Centers. Outdoor town center concepts, featuring brick sidewalks, streetlights and even public clocks evoking the Main Street of yore, are climbing to a degree that many owners of enclosed malls are considering dramatic makeovers, some including plans to tear off the roof of, or “de-mall” enclosed shopping centers.

- Last week, owners of White Flint Mall, the Rockville shopping destination, announced plans to tear the building down and — over the next 25 years — replace it with an outdoor mix of housing, new shops, offices and park space. The plans ultimately call for 5.2 million square feet, including 1 million square feet of offices in three buildings along Rockville Pike, 1 million square feet of retail, 2,500 residential units and a 300-room hotel. The current three-level mall is about 800,000 square feet. Civic amenities are also envisioned for the property, owned by Lerner Enterprises and Tower.

- On the south side of the property, the companies have reserved space for the construction of a new elementary school, and on the east side, plan to build a public park, part of 13.1 acres of open space on the property. “It’s not going to be a mall,” said Michael Cohen, an architect with Boston-based Elkus Manfredi hired by the developers. “It’s going to be more of a town, in a way. So you’re not making a mall, you’re making a town, a community.” The first phase of White Flint Mall’s redevelopment envisions 740,000 square feet of retail and 1,200 residential units around a central “piazza.”

- “Malls are changing,” said James D. Policaro, managing director of development for Lerner. “It’s a transformation — a transformation of buying habits.” White Flint isn’t the only property in the Washington area whose owners are considering a transformation toward a town center concept. Vornado/Charles E. Smith, owner of Springfield Mall, envisions a similar remake. The developer has proposed replacing the 2.1 million-square-foot mall with an 80-acre town center that would ultimately have more than 2,000 housing units, multiple office buildings and a hotel.

.....



In White Flint, the mall is being turned into a town

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...JYUN_blog.html

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  #186  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 3:15 AM
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I'm not sure about those per capita square foot numbers. They vary depending on source.

Here's one that says 20 (for "shopping centers" but I think it might mean overall): http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/ma...onsumed-t.html

Here's another with the 20 square foot figure: http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/the-unite...oo-many/212833

Or maybe I'm wrong. Other sites have much higher numbers.
To the best of my knowledge, you are correct. Latest ICSC figures I've seen say just over 24 sq.ft. per capita, and this covers all retail formats. I have no idea where the huge range comes from that others have quoted.
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  #187  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 5:39 PM
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Per later posts, I think the correct US figure is 40. A bit higher a couple years ago, guessing more like 40 exactly right now.
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  #188  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 6:52 PM
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^ Where is the data for this? I've seen a couple people state figures in article, but no data to back it up.

ICSC's data from Nov. 2011, for all retail formats, shows 2382 sq. ft. per 100, or 23.8 per person.
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  #189  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2011, 8:39 PM
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So I've looked into this a bit more, and here is what I've found. ICSC's figures are correct at 23.8 sq.ft. per person. However, this only represents total shopping centre gross leasable area (GLA), which in 2010 was only 45.5% of the total GLA for all retail space. All figures can be found in the 2011 US fact sheet on ICSC's eData page.

Therefore, the correct figure for total retail per capita in the US as of 2010, is 52.3 sq.ft./person.
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  #190  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2011, 11:49 PM
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Per later posts, I think the correct US figure is 40. A bit higher a couple years ago, guessing more like 40 exactly right now.
I found an article a while ago saying that retail space per capita nearly doubled from 1990 to maybe 2006 or so?

The thing that's most striking about retail in the United States is that the heaviest retail concentrations generally don't coincide with the heaviest residential concentrations within a single region. So you have greatly overretailed low-density suburbs, and greatly under-retailed high density urban areas. There are some exceptions, but that in general is the rule.
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  #191  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2011, 3:52 PM
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/\ exactly. Some measurements show certain urban areas down to just a couple (2-4) sq.ft. per person! A huge contrast. But that is how the retail outclassing cycle has worked for the past 70 years... building new-formats, further and further out.
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  #192  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2011, 5:17 PM
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Major Expansion of King of Prussia Mall


Nov. 29, 2011

Read More: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/maj...all-2011-11-29

Quote:
Simon Property Group, Inc., the country's largest owner, developer and manager of high quality retail real estate, announced today its plan to unify the two main shopping venues of King of Prussia Mall, expanding one of America's most productive and iconic retail destinations. This noteworthy project will entail an enclosed multi-level expansion connecting the five-anchor, 1,680,000 square foot Plaza, and the two-anchor, 902,000 square foot Court. The 140,000 square foot expansion will include approximately 40 exciting new retailers, several restaurants, an upscale dining pavilion and customer lounge. The timing of the project coincides with the upcoming 50th anniversary of the center and will further enhance one of the nation's largest and most successful retail venues.

- "This expansion will not only enhance the shopping experience, providing an enclosed retail and amenity-filled link between the two properties, but also creates much needed additional space to accommodate the demand that exists for this property," said David Contis, President of Simon Malls. "Given the productivity of this property, there is significant demand from retailers and restauranteurs unique to the market wishing to cater to our clientele." Already underway is a major redevelopment of the center which will convert the former Strawbridge's building into a home for ten new retailers in a two-story, 100,000 square foot space. This redevelopment is set to debut in time for next year's holiday season. There are always new retailers opening at King of Prussia. New stores in 2011 have included: L.L. Bean, Love Culture, lululemon athletica, LUSH, Mammoth, Swim 'n Sport, True Religion Brand Jeans, Vera Bradley, and Wolford Boutique.

.....
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  #193  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2011, 2:37 AM
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Major Expansion of King of Prussia Mall


Nov. 29, 2011

Read More: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/maj...all-2011-11-29
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  #194  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2011, 5:07 PM
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40 exciting new retailers
not just new retailers, but exciting new retailers!

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  #195  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2011, 9:27 PM
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The Long Road to Reviving Boston's Public Market


Dec 01, 2011

By Steve Holt



Read More: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/art...ic-market/604/

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If the long-awaited Boston Public Market ever opens its doors – that is to say, if blueprints finally give way to blueberries – the city will end a half-century stretch without a year-round, indoor marketplace for local produce, meats, fish, breads, and crafts. Which is odd, given Boston’s place in history as the site of the colonies’ first marketplace in the 1630s and America’s first great market hall, Quincy Market, with roots going back to 1742. The absence of a public market in Boston has been called a “hole in the fabric of the city.” By as early as next summer, officials say they want to start transforming the 26,000-square-foot first floor of a downtown Boston building (known as Parcel 7) into the hub of what they hope will be a bustling market district. The site market organizers chose is in a state-owned building along the Rose Kennedy Greenway, the popular strip of urban parkland that used to be Interstate 93.

- The infamous “Big Dig,” the most expensive public works project in American history, left numerous land parcels, the air rights over several tunnel on-ramps and a few buildings sitting empty along the central artery, many of which were originally promised to nonprofits and cultural institutions. (On the Greenway itself, several developers have backed out of plans to build facilities housing a museum celebrating Boston’s history, a center for arts and culture, an indoor arboretum, and a YMCA.) Local food advocates and city and state politicians hope the Boston Public Market avoids a similar fate. But difficulty securing a permanent site and the slowness of state government have complicated the market project for over a decade, proving that good intentions are not enough to get a new urban market off the ground in the 21st century. “It’s up the politicians,” says John Lee, longtime general manager of Boston’s Allandale Farm, which has been working the same land and selling its products locally for over 250 years. “I’ve seen it go down the tubes so many times, I’m not holding my breath.”

- Only in the last 30 years have cities begun to rethink the role of public markets. After many were torn down in the mid-20th century, a few have stood the test of time – notably, Seattle’s Pike Place and Philadelphia’s Reading Station Market – their endurance a testament to the status they’ve garnered as not only culinary centers, but as social connectors. David O’Neil, an independent consultant on public market projects around the world, says the social benefits of markets must be considered equally alongside their role as food distribution centers. The convergence of urban and rural, rich and poor, producer and diner leads to relationships that give people a feeling of connection, he says. But years ago, “we broke, for the most part, with the tradition of shopping in public markets,” says O’Neil, who consulted with the Boston Public Market Association. “That tradition was centuries old. There was no day when that started going downhill. The slow demise of the public market systems did go down, and we are out of practice.”

- No doubt weighing on the minds of Boston's public market proponents is the fairly recent demise of the Portland Public Market in Maine. The New York Times reported in 2007 that vendors were paying less than $20 per square foot in a market that cost nonprofit The Libra Foundation $75 per square foot to maintain. Ultimately, they could not get the market to a break-even point and were forced to sell, sending 28 vendors scrambling to find another location to sell their goods. It's a cautionary tale about the difficulty for private entities alone (especially nonprofits) to make the economics of public markets work. With the commonwealth of Massachusetts only able to promise $4 million of the $10 million needed to open the market, Wiest says the future of the market depends on the association’s ability to raise the remainder of the capital. He acknowledges that with the fundraising needs and amount of renovations necessary to build out Parcel 7, 2013 is probably a more realistic target for beginning the work. Plus, he says, when you’re depending on public funding and management, there are always higher priorities for officials than moving forward on a public market.

.....



Boston's Quincy Market, pictured circa the mid-1800s.






Parcel 7, behind the Rose Kennedy Greenway.

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  #196  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2011, 5:13 PM
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Over-retailed? Says who? If there were too many stores and not enough customers those stores would close.

It's self-regulating.
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  #197  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2011, 5:22 PM
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Got any pictures or know what cities are starting to do this new trend?
We have it in the suburbs here, it's everywhere and not really new.

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  #198  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2011, 9:50 PM
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Yup. Progressive zoning requirements make them build to the street, have windows, entrances, etc. all facing the street, with the parking in the back. And the developer/tenants choose to ignore the access point completely, opting for parking access alone.
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  #199  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2011, 9:53 PM
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Yup. Progressive zoning requirements make them build to the street, have windows, entrances, etc. all facing the street, with the parking in the back. And the developer/tenants choose to ignore the access point completely, opting for parking access alone.
The only real benefit of it is that it looks a little better, and someone stepping off a bus doesnt have to walk across a massive parking lot. The businesses on the end have OK sidewalk access, just looks weird.
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  #200  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2011, 10:22 PM
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I think it is imposing urban design standards for suburban communities with developers/tenants who lack vision and don't believe in the format, and probably are likely a little justified in the lack of a supportive pedestrian environment surrounding or leading up to the site in question.
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