Winnipeg Valour - CanPL

[cutchemist42]

My thoughts that I've said elsewhere.

Personally I've never disliked the Euro names, as well as the constant shifts of what to call these teams. I always kinda chuckle when every article says "Winnipeg has a new Soccer team in the Canadian Premier League of soccer....they are called FC". I always find the Euro names get mis-used by NA sport fans compared to how they actually work in Europe.

That being said, I guess Valour is fine, but I'm already tired of the easy go-to military naming conventions in NA. On top of that, I find the military connection to sports doesnt get the same pull that it does in the USA.

Related to the rest of the league, but too much of the branding for the league and teams feel too samey to me, which makes me think the same marketing firm was used. I would find the Valour thing more "genuine" if there wasnt some exec in his Toronto office explaining it in the vid, especially when the guy is labelled the brand identity leader in that vid. Just feels like he Googled "Winnipeg military" and pulled the name off the 1st hit.

It also made me wonder how centrally decided the branding was. You usually dont see central league execs explaining branding, and I would dislike knowing this was devised in some office tower in Toronto vs locally.

I really dislike the logo, and think its the tied for worst in the league with York. I wish the crest looked a lot more like Cavalry's as I feel ours is too busy, subtraction by too much addition. I think the logo would look cleaner if it was just "Valour" at the top without the ribbon part that adds nothing to me.

Overall, I think Halifax and Cavalary got their branding right.

I already disliked IGF for the Bombers and think it was a mis-step.Im really worried about how bad the atmosphere will be at IGF if its just lower bowl on 1 side. Even the bigger water-carriers of this league hesitantly admit this. I've been to Bisons game with that same layout and it just doesnt feel nice. I wish they had a stadium size that was more the size of the old Bison stadium.


All-in-all, cant see myself ever going to their games as I dislike soccer as a sport, but good luck to them.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by cutchemist42

My thoughts that I've said elsewhere.



Related to the rest of the league, but too much of the branding for the league and teams feel too samey to me, which makes me think the same marketing firm was used. I would find the Valour thing more "genuine" if there wasnt some exec in his Toronto office explaining it in the vid, especially when the guy is labelled the brand identity leader in that vid. Just feels like he Googled "Winnipeg military" and pulled the name off the 1st hit.

It also made me wonder how centrally decided the branding was. You usually dont see central league execs explaining branding, and I would dislike knowing this was devised in some office tower in Toronto vs locally.

To be fair to the brand guy, he was in Vancouver not Toronto

[esquire]

No question we are lacking mid sized sports venues for things like CPL. There simply is no alternative to IGF, which is kind of surprising for a city this size.

[cheswick]

There is the Winnipeg soccer complex which has held things like pan am games but I believe the seating is only 2500 so a bit small

[cutchemist42]

1 kinda thing is I remmber about 2 years ago when this first started getting talked about, and I wasn't crazy on the idea as at that time, it was said it would be at IGF.

Lots of fans back then were pissed that I would mention as they all thought TNSE would be owning the team and they are good at this stuff.

I look at today and I wonder how some of them feel, as some of the guys who seem to be in the know have said CanPL picked the bombers/IGF over TNSE at the Goldeyes stadium.

Considering York is playing in a 3000 seat stadium, and Halifax is putting up cheap stands for now, I wonder if expanding temp seating at Waverley would have worked better.

I don't care how much water carrying some are doing, but you cant convince me IGF will be a good venue for this team. Its already not the greatest for the Bombers...

[The Jabroni]

F*ck it. I like this logo and new soccer team we're getting.

Even though I still have my contempt of the sport for its players in the top tier leagues in the world for their diving/embellishments on the field, I think this is great for everybody overall.

It's going to take years to build a club from the ground up like what they're doing here with CPL, just like how MLS took a good 2 decades to reach where they are now.

Other than that, the colours are pretty cool. We already have two major blue teams in the city already. We could use a bit more gold and maroon.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by cutchemist42

Related to the rest of the league, but too much of the branding for the league and teams feel too samey to me, which makes me think the same marketing firm was used. I would find the Valour thing more "genuine" if there wasnt some exec in his Toronto office explaining it in the vid, especially when the guy is labelled the brand identity leader in that vid. Just feels like he Googled "Winnipeg military" and pulled the name off the 1st hit.

It also made me wonder how centrally decided the branding was. You usually dont see central league execs explaining branding, and I would dislike knowing this was devised in some office tower in Toronto vs locally.

I really dislike the logo, and think its the tied for worst in the league with York. I wish the crest looked a lot more like Cavalry's as I feel ours is too busy, subtraction by too much addition. I think the logo would look cleaner if it was just "Valour" at the top without the ribbon part that adds nothing to me.

Overall, I think Halifax and Cavalary got their branding right.

I already disliked IGF for the Bombers and think it was a mis-step.Im really worried about how bad the atmosphere will be at IGF if its just lower bowl on 1 side. Even the bigger water-carriers of this league hesitantly admit this. I've been to Bisons game with that same layout and it just doesnt feel nice. I wish they had a stadium size that was more the size of the old Bison stadium.


All-in-all, cant see myself ever going to their games as I dislike soccer as a sport, but good luck to them.

I agree it looks like one team made all the logos so far. Which is extremely bizarre considering this is a CLUB league and not a FRANCHISE league (aka league has no "ownership" of club).

Halifax is the only really nice one I'd say. The York9 name is ridiculous. Cavalry's logo is horrendous, looks like MS Paint, and I can't believe a Calgary team is going to be wearing green. I actually quite like our crest but the V on it's own looks horrendous (it needs to be filled in – see their social media profiles), and I'd prefer blue and gold. It's not just "Bomber" colours (and they own the team), it's actually our city colours.

Originally Posted by esquire

No question we are lacking mid sized sports venues for things like CPL. There simply is no alternative to IGF, which is kind of surprising for a city this size.

Originally Posted by cutchemist42

1 kinda thing is I remmber about 2 years ago when this first started getting talked about, and I wasn't crazy on the idea as at that time, it was said it would be at IGF.

Lots of fans back then were pissed that I would mention as they all thought TNSE would be owning the team and they are good at this stuff.

I look at today and I wonder how some of them feel, as some of the guys who seem to be in the know have said CanPL picked the bombers/IGF over TNSE at the Goldeyes stadium.

Considering York is playing in a 3000 seat stadium, and Halifax is putting up cheap stands for now, I wonder if expanding temp seating at Waverley would have worked better.

I don't care how much water carrying some are doing, but you cant convince me IGF will be a good venue for this team. Its already not the greatest for the Bombers...

IGF will be awful for this until/if they start drawing 20,000+ fans a game. Didn't they renovate Bison Stadium as part of the IGF project? That's where this should be – and if they need more than 5,000 seats, put up a grandstand.

Watching a sub-10,000 person soccer game at IGF is going to be like the awful last 20 years of Argo games at Rogers Centre.

[esquire]

^ Pan Am Stadium is totally lacking in pro amenities. The stands are primitive (and only on one side which hurts atmosphere) and there aren't many facilities to speak of. It would probably be less hassle to build a new soccer Stadium than to attempt to bring Pan Am up to par. IGF will deliver a better experience even if it's way too big.

[Ando]

I think that perhaps there is a misunderstanding on here about why the IGF is being used as the stadium. The Bombers own the team and playing at IGF gives them dates and concession funds. There is no way in hell they would consider playing somewhere else even if that place did exist, which it doesn't. They certainly would not fund expansion of another stadium for the Valour. CFL stadiums are used across the country for soccer, often with some of the stands closed, such as in Ottawa. If you've ever been to a soccer game, you can have an amazing fan experience if you have a virulent core of supporters, which is often the case with soccer. They make the experience. You can't compare this to a university Bisons game, that's ridiculous.

[esquire]

^ Yeah, good point. Having the extra event dates at IGF is a big deal for the Bombers. I suspect that Bison football brings next to nothing in... the crowds are small and there probably isn't much in the way of F&B sales. Given that the university is a part owner of the stadium I'm assuming the Bisons don't pay rent.

On the other hand, having around 5,000 soccer fans a game on average for, what, around 20 matches a year will have a pretty big impact. They'll be paying higher ticket prices and probably consuming a fair bit from the concessions. So it will make a solid impact on the stadium's bottom line.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Pan Am Stadium is totally lacking in pro amenities. The stands are primitive (and only on one side which hurts atmosphere) and there aren't many facilities to speak of. It would probably be less hassle to build a new soccer Stadium than to attempt to bring Pan Am up to par. IGF will deliver a better experience even if it's way too big.

Originally Posted by Ando

I think that perhaps there is a misunderstanding on here about why the IGF is being used as the stadium. The Bombers own the team and playing at IGF gives them dates and concession funds. There is no way in hell they would consider playing somewhere else even if that place did exist, which it doesn't. They certainly would not fund expansion of another stadium for the Valour. CFL stadiums are used across the country for soccer, often with some of the stands closed, such as in Ottawa. If you've ever been to a soccer game, you can have an amazing fan experience if you have a virulent core of supporters, which is often the case with soccer. They make the experience. You can't compare this to a university Bisons game, that's ridiculous.

IGF doesn't have many fancy fan facilities beyond built-in concessions, which could easily be substituted with food trucks or pop-up stations. In terms of team facilitates – those would still be in IGF. I'd be surprised to see more than 5000 people on average for the first 5 years.

FYI – Victoria's team will be playing at Westhills Stadium. It has a capacity of 1,700 (yes, hundred), and is only expandable by 500 as the side opposite the grandstand is a highway. You can see its set up here. Most of the stadiums being used are extremely basic and small.

No matter how strong the "support" is, having single-digit thousands of fans (we'd be so lucky if that was even it) in a cavern like IGF will make the experience miserable.

[esquire]

^ Pan Am Stadium has nothing, it's basically a bunch of splintered wood benches on a concrete grandstand. That's it. I think there are washrooms and that's about it in terms of fan amenities. It's been years since I've attended an event there but I seem to recall that the concession stand consisted of BBQs and a folding table... I don't think there was an actual concession stand built into the structure.

Contrast that with IGF which has everything... crowd control/gate systems, concessions, washrooms, merch kiosks, POS systems, proper washrooms, team facilities, premium seats, jumbotrons, good sound system, actual lighting, the whole nine yards.

It would be nice for Winnipeg to have an appropriately scaled soccer stadium of about 5 to 10 thousand seats, but until that day comes, IGF will have to do.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Pan Am Stadium has nothing, it's basically a bunch of splintered wood benches on a concrete grandstand. That's it. I think there are washrooms and that's about it in terms of fan amenities. It's been years since I've attended an event there but I seem to recall that the concession stand consisted of BBQs and a folding table... I don't think there was an actual concession stand built into the structure.

Contrast that with IGF which has everything... crowd control/gate systems, concessions, washrooms, merch kiosks, POS systems, proper washrooms, team facilities, premium seats, jumbotrons, good sound system, actual lighting, the whole nine yards.

It would be nice for Winnipeg to have an appropriately scaled soccer stadium of about 5 to 10 thousand seats, but until that day comes, IGF will have to do.

I agree, IGF will have to do. University stadium has inadequate washrooms, even for high school track events that fill a third of the stands. People can jump the current fence around the stadium with no issue, and I'm not quite sure they could serve alcohol there since concession is wide open to outside the stadium, not within a controlled perimeter. Given that IGF is event ready it makes more sense to have it there.

I'm optimistic about turnout. If the goldeyes can regularly churn out 3000 fans for more games per season than CanPL will have, then valour can probably average a minimum 7000 given the tickets are in the same price range. Soccer fans in Canada have been waiting for something like this for a while

[roccerfeller]

Super happy we're getting a local soccer club

I'm a very big Premier League fan so this will be right up my alley to follow

[Ando]

Again, I think you are missing the point. First, the discussion is moot because the Bombers are doing this for the very reason that they want to increase usage at IGF. Second, at this level of soccer they will be aiming at attracting 5-6000 fans max. Third, soccer tends to attract more rabid fans than hockey for sure and even football. They already have a supporters group started which really adds to game day experience. The league is also smart in negotiating that the CPL teams will also have a competition with the MLS teams.

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Yeah, good point. Having the extra event dates at IGF is a big deal for the Bombers. I suspect that Bison football brings next to nothing in... the crowds are small and there probably isn't much in the way of F&B sales. Given that the university is a part owner of the stadium I'm assuming the Bisons don't pay rent.

You bring up a good point about Bisons football. I've often wondered why college football is so big in the U.S. whereas in Canada hardly anyone seems to give a crap by comparison. The college teams down south draw NFL sized crowds but north of the border it's totally the opposite. You could shoot a cannon at a Bisons game without hitting anyone (slight exaggeration intended). I know the CFL isn't as big in Canada as the NFL is in the U.S. but I still can't figure out why there is such a huge discrepancy in support for our college (and university) teams compared to theirs.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Ando

Again, I think you are missing the point. First, the discussion is moot because the Bombers are doing this for the very reason that they want to increase usage at IGF. Second, at this level of soccer they will be aiming at attracting 5-6000 fans max. Third, soccer tends to attract more rabid fans than hockey for sure and even football. They already have a supporters group started which really adds to game day experience. The league is also smart in negotiating that the CPL teams will also have a competition with the MLS teams.

They didn't negotiate anything – this is a Tier 1 FIFA league in Canada meaning that any of the teams in that category (either the 3 MLS clubs or any CanPL clubs) are eligible to vie for the Canadian Championship. There's no guarantee that there will be any inter-league play outside of that.

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

You bring up a good point about Bisons football. I've often wondered why college football is so big in the U.S. whereas in Canada hardly anyone seems to give a crap by comparison. The college teams down south draw NFL sized crowds but north of the border it's totally the opposite. You could shoot a cannon at a Bisons game without hitting anyone (slight exaggeration intended). I know the CFL isn't as big in Canada as the NFL is in the U.S. but I still can't figure out why there is such a huge discrepancy in support for our college (and university) teams compared to theirs.

There's just way more money in the states from all aspects. Way too deep to get into, but it all starts with private colleges...

[Danny D Oh]

Price seems a bit high for the level of players that will be in this league, especially initially. $20 per game in a season ticket package for adults, $11 for kids, the most expensive Goldeyes tickets are $19 a game in a 10 game mini-pack. They'd be lucky to have a product as good as the Goldeyes, most of the players in that league have at least played affiliated ball, is the CPL going to have players that have been part of youth academy's in the Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga etc? Or is it going to be a handful of the top players from CIS and the odd import?

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

You bring up a good point about Bisons football. I've often wondered why college football is so big in the U.S. whereas in Canada hardly anyone seems to give a crap by comparison. The college teams down south draw NFL sized crowds but north of the border it's totally the opposite. You could shoot a cannon at a Bisons game without hitting anyone (slight exaggeration intended). I know the CFL isn't as big in Canada as the NFL is in the U.S. but I still can't figure out why there is such a huge discrepancy in support for our college (and university) teams compared to theirs.

Americans have a different connection with their alma mater. I think it's because most of them live on campus or in the college town away from home, whereas most of us in Canada go to universities in big cities, usually the ones we grew up in so we just commute to school.

U Sports are way bigger in some similar places in Canada, like Queens, Guelph, Bishop's, Southern Ontario and Quebec in general people seem to not just go to the university in their hometown. Brandon is a total different atmosphere too, I think related to the amount of their students living on campus away from home and it being a smaller city.

[esquire]

^ For what it's worth, Canadian university football teams draw crowds comparable to a lot of NCAA D-II schools. People see the Ohio States and Michigans and think it's all like that, but there are plenty of NCAA teams playing in front of small crowds like the 2,000 or so the Bisons usually get... schools drawing 50,000+ a game are still an exception down there.