Kanata LRT EA - Bayshore to Palladium

[McKellarDweller]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Would rather have a Hurdman-Confederation-Baseline line over an extended line west towards Kanata.

This would be way better, for probably more people.

[lrt's friend]

I have already e-mailed Jim Watson to comment about moving forward with a Kanata EA but nothing is being done to correct what is fundamentally wrong with the Trillium Line and the crappy service that it will actually offer to all south end neighbourhoods.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have already e-mailed Jim Watson to comment about moving forward with a Kanata EA but nothing is being done to correct what is fundamentally wrong with the Trillium Line and the crappy service that it will actually offer to all south end neighbourhoods.

I look forward to seeing the vacuous and platitudinous response that he provides you with.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by hwy418

Well this is positive news for the City, but I for one would like to know what happens with Transitway currently under construction between Bayshore to Moodie. It would be a real shame to overbuild now just to close it for conversion afew years later. I'm asking the Mayor and a few of the reporters at the briefing to ask the question.

Check out the schedule adherence report for Jan-Jun, 2015 (http://www.octranspo1.com/about-octr...y_to_june_2015) and notice which morning buses are late the most:

# 62 – late 33% of the time: takes 417 Pinecrest to Transitway
# 87 – late 33% of the time
# 60 – late 30% of the time: takes 417 Pinecrest to Transitway
# 69 – late 29% of the time: takes 417 Richmond to Transitway
# 77 – late 25% of the time
# 61 – late 23% of the time: takes 417 Pinecrest to Transitway
# 66 – late 23 % of the time: takes 417 Pinecrest to Transitway

Listen to the traffic reports in the morning: “Traffic on the east-bound 417 is backed up from Moodie to Maitland.”

Right now the buses from Kanata use the new bus-only lanes from Kanata to Moodie, just start to experience congestion and then get off the 417 at Holly Acres. They then jump on the Transitway and by-pass traffic all the way to Pinecrest – where they get back into the congestion on the 417. There has been a recent improvement for buses between Pinecrest and the Transitway, but getting on and off of the congested 417 is a problem for staying on schedule.

The extension of the Transitway from Bayshore to Moodie will allow buses to get off the 417 at the end of the bus-only lanes, without having to change lanes to continue to Holly Acres. It will not save the buses from having to return to the 417 at Pinecrest; although that section has been improved.

With traffic congestion happening further and further west, getting the buses off of the 417 at Moodie should help them avoid some delays. The extension of the Transitway to Moodie will also bring the buses closer to the new DND facility at the old Nortel Campus. These are changes that need to be done now, not wait for 2023 when Stage 2 of the LRT comes on-line.

[Kitchissippi]

Too late the hero. The Sens will probably move to LeBreton before LRT gets built out to the CTC. They shouldn't bother going past Terry Fox.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Check out the schedule adherence report for Jan-Jun, 2015 (http://www.octranspo1.com/about-octr...y_to_june_2015) and notice which morning buses are late the most:

# 62 – late 33% of the time: takes 417 Pinecrest to Transitway
# 87 – late 33% of the time
# 60 – late 30% of the time: takes 417 Pinecrest to Transitway
# 69 – late 29% of the time: takes 417 Richmond to Transitway
# 77 – late 25% of the time
# 61 – late 23% of the time: takes 417 Pinecrest to Transitway
# 66 – late 23 % of the time: takes 417 Pinecrest to Transitway

Listen to the traffic reports in the morning: “Traffic on the east-bound 417 is backed up from Moodie to Maitland.”

Right now the buses from Kanata use the new bus-only lanes from Kanata to Moodie, just start to experience congestion and then get off the 417 at Holly Acres. They then jump on the Transitway and by-pass traffic all the way to Pinecrest – where they get back into the congestion on the 417. There has been a recent improvement for buses between Pinecrest and the Transitway, but getting on and off of the congested 417 is a problem for staying on schedule.

The extension of the Transitway from Bayshore to Moodie will allow buses to get off the 417 at the end of the bus-only lanes, without having to change lanes to continue to Holly Acres. It will not save the buses from having to return to the 417 at Pinecrest; although that section has been improved.

The need to traverse that section will be eliminated once Stage 2 opens. By 2023, buses will end at Bayshore. And transit will finally have a traffic-bypassing route all the way from Kanata to the CBD.

[Uhuniau]

Would be nice if OC Transpo would make bus schedule-adherence data available for all routes, all periods of the day, all the time.

But that would be open and accountable, and that's just not part of the Transpo culture.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The need to traverse that section will be eliminated once Stage 2 opens. By 2023, buses will end at Bayshore. And transit will finally have a traffic-bypassing route all the way from Kanata to the CBD.

I think you stopped reading too early. Here is the last line that you seem to have missed:

These are changes that need to be done now, not wait for 2023 when Stage 2 of the LRT comes on-line.

Note that it says 'need to be done now' and not 'everyone will be happy to wait 7 years for while things get even worse'.

Believe it or not, there are times when fixing a problem now, even if it isn't the optimal fix, is better than trying to live for years with the problem, hoping that it can be fixed properly some day in the distant future.

[rocketphish]

Planning begins for Kanata LRT link

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 8, 2016 | Last Updated: June 8, 2016 1:58 PM EDT

The city has set the stage to extend light rail to Kanata.

Mayor Jim Watson announced Wednesday morning that the city is beginning an Environmental Assessment to extend the rail line from Bayshore Station to Palladium Drive.

“After the North-South LRT project was cancelled a decade ago, many residents thought they wouldn’t see LRT in their lifetime,” Watson said in a statement. “But, since that time, successive Councils have made light rail transit the City’s number one priority – and we have made sure that our federal and provincial partners know that Ottawa is ready for rail.”

The first stage of the assessment will be done this summer and will be presented to the Transportation Committee in September. It is expected to cost $2 million to $3 million, Watson said, with the costs to be shared between the city and the federal government. The complete assessment will take two years.

More to come

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...anata-lrt-link

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I think you stopped reading too early. Here is the last line that you seem to have missed:

Note that it says 'need to be done now' and not 'everyone will be happy to wait 7 years for while things get even worse'.

Believe it or not, there are times when fixing a problem now, even if it isn't the optimal fix, is better than trying to live for years with the problem, hoping that it can be fixed properly some day in the distant future.

Yes, but then we close the Bayshore-Moodie Transitway for construction for conversion to LRT?!? Why bother. Better to wait for LRT extension past Bayshore so you can minimize size of structures, guideway, no more need for bus loop at Bayshore, etc. Makes so much sense - it won't happen.

[Vanier]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Would rather have real transit for dense central neighbourhoods than to reward sprawling, low-density suburbs or their sprawl, and cause an even greater outflow of economic benefit from central residents to the outside-the-Brownbelt suburbs.

But that's magical thinking for sprawl-addicted Ottawa.

Amen.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Would rather have real transit for dense central neighbourhoods than to reward sprawling, low-density suburbs or their sprawl, and cause an even greater outflow of economic benefit from central residents to the outside-the-Brownbelt suburbs.

But that's magical thinking for sprawl-addicted Ottawa.

If your downtown is accessible, then people will want to go there. This means an economic inflow.

If downtown is not accessible, that is really when retail and business leaves.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If your downtown is accessible, then people will want to go there. This means an economic inflow.

If downtown is not accessible, that is really when retail and business leaves.

This is an idea that makes sense, but it isn't backed up by real-world evidence.
I'll quote myself from another thread:

This is a 'commonsensical' idea which sounds like it should work, but just doesn't quite manifest in the real world. If anything, the evidence points to the contrary; areas with high local congestion (i.e: downtown, main streets, etc.) are correlated with lower rates of job relocation. That said, areas with high regional congestion but low local congestion are more likely to have jobs relocate.

So we shouldn't be worried about placed like Downtown or Westboro - those places will continue to thrive even if we took down the 417 - but we should be worried about places like Confederation Heights and Kanata North, places which are dependant on low traffic and incapable of generating their own attraction beyond that. As the city and congestion grow, these places will decline while Downtown will become even more successful.

What's important is not that we try in vain to blow against the wind to keep the city from growing and congestion from forming - that's a futile exercise we've spent 70 years burning money on. Instead, what economically smart cities are doing is transforming these Kanata Norths into places in their own right (of which one of the characteristics is the aforementioned local congestion) which can attract and retain firms and businesses even better as the city grows.
Unless a concerted effort is made to make these places economically attractive, they will wither and decline to new office parks further afield which will, in time, fall victim to the same cycle. This is how 'greybelts' form.


So short answer is that yes, congestion makes jobs flee. But the most congested places are also the most successful.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

This is an idea that makes sense, but it isn't backed up by real-world evidence.
I'll quote myself from another thread:

I was talking about transit accessibility, which can be quite different from general traffic congestion.

Vibrant areas tend to be busy. Downtown should be a city wide destination for retail, business and attractions. People need to be able to get there.

Westboro is a more local destination, which does not require the same degree of accessibility.

Downtown can be a success without city-wide accessibility but then we are limiting the scale of that success. In that case, forget about an NHL arena downtown.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If your downtown is accessible, then people will want to go there. This means an economic inflow.

If downtown is not accessible, that is really when retail and business leaves.

That is not what I mean by economic outflow.

The tax and expenditure structure of Ottawa is set up to siphon money from ratepayers in the centre and subsidize the construction, and continuing existence, of otherwise unsustainable suburbs. Spending billions more to build urban mass transit in and to transit-hostile suburbs, exacerbates the problem.

This needs to stop. But it won't.

[eternallyme]

This also asks the question, will Barrhaven push hard for the LRT as well?

They do have an advantage in its shape, increasing walk-on traffic, but also have an issue near Knoxdale where either expropriation or tunneling will be required.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

This also asks the question, will Barrhaven push hard for the LRT as well?

They do have an advantage in its shape, increasing walk-on traffic, but also have an issue near Knoxdale where either expropriation or tunneling will be required.

Well, they already have a LRT ready corridor available right to Barrhaven Town Centre. But that brings us back to old plans that they tossed in the garbage along with $100M.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

This also asks the question, will Barrhaven push hard for the LRT as well?

They do have an advantage in its shape, increasing walk-on traffic, but also have an issue near Knoxdale where either expropriation or tunneling will be required.

True, but Kanata has much greater potential demand. Kanata has a mix of uses, there's employment lands, and there's regional destinations like the Tanger mall and the arena (which will presumably get redeveloped into something else rather big), so a Kanata line, if the bus connections were well designed and frequent, could attract a lot of different types of riders throughout the day.

By contrast, in Barrhaven, it's mostly just houses and local retail (that only attracts shoppers from the local area). There's not much in the way of employment, and the only regional destination is the train station. For this reason a line to Barrhaven would mostly just get peak period commuters.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

This also asks the question, will Barrhaven push hard for the LRT as well?

Yip, and if Mayor Dwithers is running again next time, he'll give them a sop, too. I'm guessing the Far Haven LRT study will launch in 2017 to give Dwithers political cover.

[OTSkyline]

One "plus" for Barrhaven is that, if i'm not mistaken, there is much higher density there than in Kanata, no?

It's my understanding that they are building much more townhouses, low rises and multi-unit buildings than in Kanata... So maybe the higher density will warrant an LRT stop there (one day?).