Dynamic Ottawa. What would it take?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by grooveduster

The first is to focus less on the Parliament buildings as a tourist "draw". It's a beautiful building for sure, but no one really goes to Paris or London solely to see the seat of government.

I can guarantee you, more people go to Ottawa or Paris or London to see the buildings that mark them as national capitals, than who do so to check out the quality of the turf in the parks.

A large common parkspace is essential, like Central park, Hyde Park, Mont Royal Park, etc.

We have a whole bunch of them. The issue is not a shortage of "green" space, because Ottawa doesn't have such a shortage - it's in how we use them, and in how we are permitted to use them. The NCC, the anal attitude of the city, the Presbyterian Ontario attitude towards alcohol, the local NIMBY and Karen culture; THOSE are the problems, not some imaginary lack of parks.

There are many parks in downtown Ottawa, but none really speaks "Let's spend a day walking around and get lost!" kinda thing. This proposed park needs an easy to remember name, a clear "entrance", and proper branding.

What "proposed park"? What urban fabric will we uproot in the core of Ottawa to satisfy our apparently endless "green space" fetish?

Lastly, if we go the DC route, all museums should be within walking distance from one another. Tell my why the (beautiful) Aviation Museum is where it is??

So that aircraft can be delivered to it before being decommissioned for museum display?

Don't get me wrong friends, I love Ottawa, buy man oh man, could it ever use a re-think...it could be great...and don't even get me started on the ratty utility poles everywhere....

Another one of those bizarre Ottawa fixations: poles. As if Ottawa, and Ottawa alone, has utility poles.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Why are so many people in Ottawa convinced that (a) Ottawa is lacking in parks, and (b) parks are the key to make a city more "dynamic/vibrant/exciting", etc.?

Well put. Ottawa has poor street life. And that is a huge part of why it lacks draw. The market is still kind of unfriendly to pedestrians. Sparks St. has a weird disjointed patio scene. The canal does not even have hot dog carts on it in the summer. Most of the museums require transit to get to them. So not pedestrian friendly.

I don't think of Ottawa as the city that fun forgot. I think of Ottawa as the city that let suburbanites run amok. There's nothing truly urban about it. The planning sucks. And as a result so does the street life. It reflects the fact that most of the city is 9-5 McMansion dwellers who see their relationship to the core as entirely transactional.

And unless that changes, for most tourists Ottawa will be the 2 hr lunch stop on the cheap Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal bus tours.

[Truenorth00]

Here's a simple exercise. Think of every great city you've ever visited and think of their relationship to the closest body of water. Be that a river, lake or ocean. Now think of Ottawa's relationship to the canal and river. Like everything else, our canal is a parking lot for the upper middle class in the Summer.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

What people remember most of any city is the street life. Places like Niagara Falls have all the gimmicks and indoor attractions you can shake a stick at, but no one ever stays there longer than the duration of a Falls selfie, yet people return again and again to Place Des Arts or Queen St East just to take in the atmosphere.

Have you ever lived in the GTA? If you think people going to Niagara only for a picture of the the Falls than you don't know much about the area.

[wave46]

Is Ottawa that un-fun?

For a city of its size, I thought it did quite well. I thought the perception was a holdover from the 1970s, maybe.

There are places for improvement, sure. Moving Canadian Tire Place downtown would be a good start. The Science and Tech Museum out of the boonies. Encouraging further mixed-use development.

It does quite well on a population adjusted basis. I can't think of another city with its population (say, 1-2.5 million metro) in North America that does better, aside from extreme examples like Las Vegas.

It doesn't have that cool, "happening" vibe, but I think that's more intrinsic to its nature. A designed government town is hard-pressed to have that vibe. Somewhere like Canberra, Australia is deadsville comparatively to Ottawa. Same with Brasilia. Washington DC is a much larger city and the heart of a superpower. Other world capitals don't work that way, because they're also the centre of their respective universes in most senses.

I guess Ottawa could look to somewhere like Wellington, NZ for inspiration. Wellington felt bigger than it was.

I'm just wondering where the goalposts are, mostly.

[ericmacm]

When I visited Ottawa, one of the worst things was the pricing of hotel rooms during weekdays. The cost difference between a hotel during the week vs the weekend was astronomical, like 100-200% higher during the week. I have been told that this is due to governmental usage of hotels during the week. I wanted to stay longer, but I simply could not afford a room at the weekday rates. I also stayed in Montreal and Quebec City on the same road trip, and did not experience a problem like this in those cities.

This issue is a huge barrier to tourism and if fixed, would result in more people visiting the city. Ottawa needs an increase in hotel supply to help lower these rates.

[grooveduster]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I can guarantee you, more people go to Ottawa or Paris or London to see the buildings that mark them as national capitals, than who do so to check out the quality of the turf in the parks.



We have a whole bunch of them. The issue is not a shortage of "green" space, because Ottawa doesn't have such a shortage - it's in how we use them, and in how we are permitted to use them. The NCC, the anal attitude of the city, the Presbyterian Ontario attitude towards alcohol, the local NIMBY and Karen culture; THOSE are the problems, not some imaginary lack of parks.



What "proposed park"? What urban fabric will we uproot in the core of Ottawa to satisfy our apparently endless "green space" fetish?



So that aircraft can be delivered to it before being decommissioned for museum display?



Another one of those bizarre Ottawa fixations: poles. As if Ottawa, and Ottawa alone, has utility poles.

Uhuniau, I dig this city...I'm just trying to envision it as world class, because I think it's possible. You disparage my points, and that's OK, but don't you think we should "raise the bar" and not be satisfied with mediocrity? I agree with your points on nimbyism and Karens...you're totally on point...but your responses to some of my points exemplifies the problem with this city...sort of a myopic view to what's possible. (ie. why is the aviation museum in the middle of nowhere, when the DC museum is right downtown...no one flew that super cool X-15 to a local DC airport nearby before it was decommissioned, brother). The 'proposed park' I was referring to was imaginary...it could be Lebreton...some useless piece of disputed unused land turned into something cool. It bugs me that there are so many unused parks in Ottawa, and not a single "central" park. I'm not advocating for more green space, just a single really cool big green space, you know? Work with me here....we're on the same forum....we're on the same page.

[wave46]

I think a lot of it comes down to this: a city is the product of the minds of the people who inhabit it.

You can't really plan 'cool' or 'trendy'. It just happens and is the product of the people who live there of a time. Government minds cannot really operate beyond the framework they're in.

The mob-controlled casinos gave Vegas the aura it did. New York City's aura was the product of decades of transition, much of it quite unpleasant.

Ottawa won't be 'cool' in that sense, because the mindset of the majority won't allow for that spirit of the young independent-minded. San Francisco is learning that the hard way now.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by grooveduster

Uhuniau, I dig this city...I'm just trying to envision it as world class, because I think it's possible. You disparage my points, and that's OK, but don't you think we should "raise the bar" and not be satisfied with mediocrity? I agree with your points on nimbyism and Karens...you're totally on point...but your responses to some of my points exemplifies the problem with this city...sort of a myopic view to what's possible. (ie. why is the aviation museum in the middle of nowhere, when the DC museum is right downtown...no one flew that super cool X-15 to a local DC airport nearby before it was decommissioned, brother). The 'proposed park' I was referring to was imaginary...it could be Lebreton...some useless piece of disputed unused land turned into something cool. It bugs me that there are so many unused parks in Ottawa, and not a single "central" park. I'm not advocating for more green space, just a single really cool big green space, you know? Work with me here....we're on the same forum....we're on the same page.

Ottawa's existing parks are an asset and actually make the city distinctive, a very green city that many visitors admire. The bike paths along the canal and rivers to the extent that we have them is really special. However, the NIMBY's that prevented Ottawa getting a proper botanical garden did this city a major disservice, especially since that facility could have been reached from light rail stations. I am hoping the Zibi development will provide a new way for the city to interact with the Ottawa River and provide new beautiful views of the Parliament Buildings. The Parliament Buildings should not be downplayed. They are buildings of outstanding world-class architecture. We should not aspire to a CN Tower and it is highly unlikely that a condo tower will ever have the architectural merit to make it a premier landmark. I remember visiting Wroclaw, Poland, which had built one massive tower in an otherwise mostly low rise city. It stood out like a sore thumb and did not add to the city's beauty.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Have you ever lived in the GTA? If you think people going to Niagara only for a picture of the the Falls than you don't know much about the area.

I agree. I actually like Niagara Falls for more than the beauty of the falls and I don't mind Clifton Hill because it ties in with the city's history. The parks along the Niagara River are beautiful, then their are the historical sites, Niagara-on-the-lake, all the wineries and for those who like it, the casinos. There are lots of attractions for all ages. Niagara Falls is a weekend getaway for the GTA and nearby USA residents given the much higher hotel rates on weekends.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I can guarantee you, more people go to Ottawa or Paris or London to see the buildings that mark them as national capitals, than who do so to check out the quality of the turf in the parks.



We have a whole bunch of them. The issue is not a shortage of "green" space, because Ottawa doesn't have such a shortage - it's in how we use them, and in how we are permitted to use them. The NCC, the anal attitude of the city, the Presbyterian Ontario attitude towards alcohol, the local NIMBY and Karen culture; THOSE are the problems, not some imaginary lack of parks.



What "proposed park"? What urban fabric will we uproot in the core of Ottawa to satisfy our apparently endless "green space" fetish?
.

I would agree with you that there is more than enough green space in central Ottawa.

A large central park isn't always good for urban vibrancy because it typically separates at least two parts of the city and a lot of people will be reluctant to cross through it on foot after dark. Especially when alone.

It works in NYC because the city has so much going for it in terms of vibrancy, but for a city that wants to up its game on that front, it's probably not a good idea.

I'd also agree on what has been said about optimizing and "dynamizing" the green space that is already there, most notably the areas along the canal that could take some inspiration from the River Walk (Paseo del Rio) in San Antonio which has cafés, restaurants and boutiques. (Feel like I am saying that for the millonth time.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by grooveduster

The first is to focus less on the Parliament buildings as a tourist "draw". It's a beautiful building for sure, but no one really goes to Paris or London solely to see the seat of government. Let's see what happens if we let go of Parliament as our city mascot.
.

In terms of iconic imagery, the Peace Tower is a hell of a good one by Canadian standards.

Saying that it's bad because it's the seat of government is like saying the CN Tower is bad because it's a bloody telecom antenna.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I don't really buy this. Ottawa already has a different feel than either Montreal and Toronto in a positive sense. I think we need to build upon this. We can't be the 'big city', but that should not stop us from being more exciting. Winterlude is an example of something that is uniquely Ottawa that neither big city can offer.

I agree with acottawa that we need indoor attractions that are not museums and that could add to Ottawa as a destination in both summer and winter. An indoor waterpark would be an oasis in Ottawa's long winters (for locals and visitors) and would be an attraction to complement Winterlude, which is not always reliable.

As much as it pains me to say it, Winterlude has become a pathetic excuse for a winter carnival. I spent a lot of time there this past winter and honestly, there is hardly anything there anymore. OK, the winter playground at Jacques-Cartier is still good and popular but that's not even in Ottawa. A Winterlude Saturday or Sunday on the canal is basically like any other skating day during the season. One wouldn't really notice that there is a major festival going on.

Long gone are the days where Winterlude rivalled the Carnaval in Quebec City.

Unless they had really young kids that could take advantage of Jacques-Cartier, I would not recommend Winterlude to visitors from out of town anymore.

[grooveduster]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In terms of iconic imagery, the Peace Tower is a hell of a good one by Canadian standards.

Saying that it's bad because it's the seat of government is like saying the CN Tower is bad because it's a bloody telecom antenna.

Acajack, this is sort of my point...."the Peace Tower is a hell of a good one by Canadian standards".

Let's UP the standard!

The peace tower is just a copy of the London Parliament...it's cool, but it's not that special. We need to do better. I've had my European guests remark during a tour of the city. "Look..it's Big Ben...!"

[J.OT13]

The NCC has done some good work in recent years to liven green-space around town, starting with Tavern on the Hill/Tavern on the Falls and a few pop-up bistros. It brings people to spots that would otherwise be dead, especially Tavern on the Falls, but it's too bad for the gap of active street-front between the Market and Rideau Falls (I feel like a heritage streetcar from Bank and Sparks to Rideau Falls or the GG could help). Their plan for the linear park along the Sir John A. MacDonald Parkway will improve the space significantly.

Zibi will be a major addition to the centre of the city. The first true waterfront destination, with amazing views to boot. We'll soon need to market the heck our of Zibi and the newly introduced public access to the Chaudière Falls.

We also need to take inspiration from our success in 2017 and make some of those events permanent.

LeBreton is a huge wildcard in making Ottawa that much more dynamic and marketable. It will add some of that missing waterfront activity along the aquducts. I wish we could remove part of the SJAM between Preston and Lemieux Island to add more active waterfront, but that would be a tough sell.

[eltodesukane]

Originally Posted by Acajack

A large central park isn't always good for urban vibrancy because it typically separates at least two parts of the city and a lot of people will be reluctant to cross through it on foot after dark. Especially when alone.

This certainly applies to the experimental farm (which of course is not a park).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As much as it pains me to say it, Winterlude has become a pathetic excuse for a winter carnival. I spent a lot of time there this past winter and honestly, there is hardly anything there anymore. OK, the winter playground at Jacques-Cartier is still good and popular but that's not even in Ottawa. A Winterlude Saturday or Sunday on the canal is basically like any other skating day during the season. One wouldn't really notice that there is a major festival going on.

Long gone are the days where Winterlude rivalled the Carnaval in Quebec City.

Unless they had really young kids that could take advantage of Jacques-Cartier, I would not recommend Winterlude to visitors from out of town anymore.

What should we do to make it better?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The NCC has done some good work in recent years to liven green-space around town, starting with Tavern on the Hill/Tavern on the Falls and a few pop-up bistros. It brings people to spots that would otherwise be dead, especially Tavern on the Falls, but it's too bad for the gap of active street-front between the Market and Rideau Falls (I feel like a heritage streetcar from Bank and Sparks to Rideau Falls or the GG could help). Their plan for the linear park along the Sir John A. MacDonald Parkway will improve the space significantly.

Zibi will be a major addition to the centre of the city. The first true waterfront destination, with amazing views to boot. We'll soon need to market the heck our of Zibi and the newly introduced public access to the Chaudière Falls.

We also need to take inspiration from our success in 2017 and make some of those events permanent.

LeBreton is a huge wildcard in making Ottawa that much more dynamic and marketable. It will add some of that missing waterfront activity along the aquducts. I wish we could remove part of the SJAM between Preston and Lemieux Island to add more active waterfront, but that would be a tough sell.

Remember my suggestion to have a tramway to connection downtown and the new Wateridge development via Sussex and Rockcliffe. It would connect the attractions that are too far to walk to including the Aviation Museum and the new 'urban' community. We could leverage a tramway into improving that whole corridor to make it more attactive, more animated and less auto-centric.

After all the fuss years ago about the American embassy at 'Mile Circle', I am shocked how that piece of land has devolved into what is becoming an abandoned field and scrub land with absolutely no amenities for locals or the greater city. I suppose the locals like it that way.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I can guarantee you, more people go to Ottawa or Paris or London to see the buildings that mark them as national capitals, than who do so to check out the quality of the turf in the parks.



We have a whole bunch of them. The issue is not a shortage of "green" space, because Ottawa doesn't have such a shortage - it's in how we use them, and in how we are permitted to use them. The NCC, the anal attitude of the city, the Presbyterian Ontario attitude towards alcohol, the local NIMBY and Karen culture; THOSE are the problems, not some imaginary lack of parks.



What "proposed park"? What urban fabric will we uproot in the core of Ottawa to satisfy our apparently endless "green space" fetish?



So that aircraft can be delivered to it before being decommissioned for museum display?



Another one of those bizarre Ottawa fixations: poles. As if Ottawa, and Ottawa alone, has utility poles.

I agree with you that Ottawa’s Victorian approach to park use (walking, sitting, Jazz festivals) is a big part of the problem. But most of the parks in central Ottawa are tiny, at best suitable for neighborhood use. Any event in any park pretty much closes it for everything else. Even much smaller cities like Waterloo or Kingston have a larger park in the city centre. Also most of the green space is not actually a park and again supports limited activity.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As much as it pains me to say it, Winterlude has become a pathetic excuse for a winter carnival. I spent a lot of time there this past winter and honestly, there is hardly anything there anymore. OK, the winter playground at Jacques-Cartier is still good and popular but that's not even in Ottawa. A Winterlude Saturday or Sunday on the canal is basically like any other skating day during the season. One wouldn't really notice that there is a major festival going on.

Long gone are the days where Winterlude rivalled the Carnaval in Quebec City.

Unless they had really young kids that could take advantage of Jacques-Cartier, I would not recommend Winterlude to visitors from out of town anymore.

I agree in many ways. There is also the ice sculpture area across from City Hall.

I also find Canada Day downtown to be a letdown. Just a lot of people walking back and forth in the heat and everybody wondering 'is this it? surely there is more to it than this'.