DETROIT | Hudson's Detroit | 685 FT & 240 FT | 49 & 14 FLOORS - Page 13

animatedmartian · #**241** Posted **Jul 31, 2018, 11:43 AM**

If we have a mild winter coming up, we could probably see the tower start to rise pretty early into 2019.

LMich · #**242** Posted **Aug 14, 2018, 9:06 AM**

Just about done...

August 13

SpartanDawg

seabee1526 · #**243** Posted **Aug 14, 2018, 7:22 PM**

Can just about see the finish line with this demo.

subterranean · #**244** Posted **Aug 15, 2018, 4:25 PM**

I keep thinking back to the debates we had on this site about "how much weight the current deck can support" determining the height of any hypothetical building developed here...

animatedmartian · #**245** Posted **Aug 15, 2018, 10:14 PM**

Ah yea, before Gilbert started up his buying spree. Before a lot of things happened downtown actually.

I think the common assumption was that any would-be developer would have gone the quickest/cheapest route by building on top of the current deck which would have only limited the site to about 15-16 floors. Less optimistic times then.

LMich · #**246** Posted **Aug 16, 2018, 7:55 AM**

Yeah, no one even considered that someone would come by who had enough money to rebuild the garage. Crazy, crazy times we're living in.

Phil McAvity · #**247** Posted **Aug 16, 2018, 7:33 PM**

Man that picture by LMich really shows how frozen in time Detroit is because with the exception of the green glass building on the far left, i'll bet that picture would look exactly the same in the 1970's as it does today. It's like city that time forgot

seabee1526 · #**248** Posted **Aug 16, 2018, 7:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Man that picture by LMich really shows how frozen in time Detroit is because with the exception of the green glass building on the far left, i'll bet that picture would look exactly the same in the 1970's as it does today. It's like city that time forgot

It sure is, it's very hard to imagine that it was once the 4th largest city in America. The rest of the country sped on past it. I believe it was in the top 10 as late as the early 2000's, but lost 13 spots in less than 2 decades. Suburbs have high population, but I don't see them moving back into the city.

ps. I like your Churchill quote

The North One · #**249** Posted **Aug 16, 2018, 8:57 PM**

Historical architecture ≠ frozen in time

There's also several new buildings in the photo built nowhere near the 70's... do you people make similar comments when you look at photos of Back Bay? There's nothing frozen in time about a major city of about 5 million people, just stop.

LMich · #**250** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 9:03 AM**

It really is a silly characterization of things, or even if you take it at face value, it's certainly not something to be looked on negatively. There are major cities in this country who wish they had blocks like that, even with all that Detroit has unfortunately demolished for nothing. I marvel every time I see this view, and I'm a little (just a very little bit) sad that some of it will be lost.

Beautiful, beautiful center.

Woodward Christmas by Scott Shields, on Flickr

_6049334s by Paul, on Flickr

Detroit Rock City by ruifo, on Flickr

Fvn · #**251** Posted **Aug 18, 2018, 12:30 AM**

Hardman Construction - https://www.instagram.com/p/BmYtntUh...anconstruction

animatedmartian · #**252** Posted **Aug 20, 2018, 10:59 PM**

https://www.reddit.com/r/Detroit/com...ow_completely/

LMich · #**253** Posted **Aug 21, 2018, 12:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fvn

Hardman Construction - https://www.instagram.com/p/BmYtntUh...anconstruction

This is something of a clue about how close we are to construction, I'd think. Hardman apparently build's foundation, though they also do things like earth retention. It'd be nice to know if they are just consulting or if they've been hired to build the foundations for the structures on the site. Hardman, specifically, is an expert of auger cast piling. Anyone familiar with construction know the difference in cost and how many more piles are needed or not needed for this method versus driving piles?

Bedrock and Barton Malow have been super tight-lipped about their plans beyond whatever they released earlier in the process. I'm not even mad, as I'd rather them have all their ducks in a row before making statements they have to walk back. But boy does it make folks like us extra anxious.

deja vu · #**254** Posted **Aug 21, 2018, 5:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMich

Anyone familiar with construction know the difference in cost and how many more piles are needed or not needed for this method [auger cast piling] versus driving piles?

I'm no expert, but my guess is that the chosen method is based on a cost / benefit analysis that depends mostly on the soil quality, and also on the amount of disturbance that can reasonably be exacted on surrounding properties. Available equipment and labor skills for the particular region would probably also need to be taken into account. I don't know that the number of piles required is necessarily a direct function of the chosen method on its own.

I found this fun little presentation too:

http://www.piledrivers.org/files/222...ored-piles.pdf

LMich · #**255** Posted **Aug 21, 2018, 6:10 PM**

I've heard auger cast piles are more expensive as far as materials/equipment needed on the front end, but that they can be done much faster. It's going to be really interesting to see how this is going to be built, quite an education.

Fvn · #**256** Posted **Aug 21, 2018, 10:48 PM**

My guess is that Hardman did the tiebacks on the walls of the old parking garage/ will do any further earth retention services needed.

Auger cast piles for the low rise? Maybe. Auger cast piles for the tower? Doubtful.

I also don't really know much about the conditions of the soils in Detroit. That being said I know that all the newer developments you see in the area utilize caissons and those are smaller. CBD Apartments, Little Caesars HQ (and Arena), Henry Ford Cancer Center... etc

animatedmartian · #**257** Posted **Aug 22, 2018, 8:39 AM**

I've read that auger piles are mainly meant for areas with poor conditions like areas with high water tables or coarse soils. That's not a problem in Downtown Detroit so their use in this project would most likely be an unnecessary expense.

rlw777 · #**258** Posted **Aug 23, 2018, 6:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

I've read that auger piles are mainly meant for areas with poor conditions like areas with high water tables or coarse soils. That's not a problem in Downtown Detroit so their use in this project would most likely be an unnecessary expense.

I don't think soil conditions are the deciding factor in this scenario. It's more about the depth of bedrock. It's pretty safe to assume that an 800' tower will have some sort of deep foundation in any location where bedrock isn't close to the surface. If bedrock is pretty deep I would expect them to use caissons over auger cast piles.

subterranean · #**259** Posted **Aug 23, 2018, 10:27 PM**

Well I'm learning more about foundations than I ever really thought I would from this convo...

LMich · #**260** Posted **Aug 24, 2018, 8:45 AM**

Did a little research (finding the bedrock elevation map was nearly impossible). It appears the roof of the garage was 598 feet ASL, and the bedrock in downtown is anywhere from 450 feet to 475 feet above sea level. They already started at least a good 40 feet towards that, so do the math from there.

I have no idea if that's shallow or deep relative to other downtowns.