Chaos on commercial streets: For fans of gritty, cluttered stores and restaurants.

[Segun]

Originally Posted by LA21st

and that intersection is 15-20 miles from downtown.
Van Nuys Blvd actually has some decent pedestrian activity there.

There's plans to put light rail on Van Nuys in the next ten years or so, so it will help all those commercial districts.

Im thinking something outrageous like a 40 story high rise or more could be built there just to place enough people in the immediate vicinity to add people to the street. I don't see them allowing that though.

[Segun]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

You want to see chaos on a commercial st?

Go to India or Pakistan

That's most the World. It seemed like 1 Block in Tokyo had 100 stores each. Only time I experienced urban overload.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Quixote

That area has so much urban potential with its narrow streets and wall-to-wall buildings. It’s unfortunate though that you’d be losing the intense commercialism if you were to replace it with mixed-use buildings, as new developments very rarely have the dense storefronts (the key to vibrant streetscapes) of older buildings.

yea, it would be sad. I think it would occur in the next great boom cycle though. Something has to give. Hopefully it wouldn't take it all out,but who knows.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Segun

Im thinking something outrageous like a 40 story high rise or more could be built there just to place enough people in the immediate vicinity to add people to the street. I don't see them allowing that though.

I believe city planners envision a ton of new mixed use buidlings there. Not 40 stories though.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by LA21st

\downtown.

We got downtown chaos too:


https://www.airbnb.com/locations/san-francisco/downtown

Unless this happens:



Then the people and the traffic backs off.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Segun

I'll do some cities not my own.

Cincinnati: It seems as if you look away from Cincinnati for a month and some old building has been converted and repainted, and there's very little midpoint between areas of urban decay and gentrified areas, two that stick out are actually across the river from DT Cincy in Kentucky

Without question, if we count Northern Kentucky as the "South", it is the most urbanized place in the entire South outside New Orleans. More walkability over a large contiguous area than Nashville, Memphis, and Knoxville combined. Lots of interesting streetscapes and individual buildings.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

I like the sweet spot where a local person can still afford to open up a store which isn't super expensive and geared towards hipsters(or whatever the term is now) while also having chains I like mixed in to show that the neighborhood is healthy.

Agreed. This is why I think the whole “you can live well without a car in the ‘Big Six’ cities” is highly overrated. The reality is that all of those cities (minus NYC, which is always the outlier in urban discussions) are very limited in terms of neighborhoods* that are anchored by a commercial strip with quality amenities. What’s the point of living in a dense environment if all of the amenities within walking distance (if there are any) are shit quality and you have to trek over to nearby neighborhoods to do all your errands? Me personally, any urban neighborhood I live in absolutely must have the following within walking distance:

1) Chase
2) USPS
3) UPS
4) FedEx
5) Multiple coffee shop options
6) Multiple grocery options
7) Multiple laundromat options
8) Multiple convenience store options
9) Quality, non-chain dining options


*My standard is 5th/7th Avenues in Brooklyn’s Park Slope. Commercials strips in other cities tend to be too short or too spotty.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Well yes, but downtown LA isn't even all that important for the region anyhow. LA is probably one of the most spread out regions in North America

As far as I know, DTLA is pretty much the only part of the LA area that has that New York/ Chicago old world urban vibe with the density and pre-war development. I think they even use it as a stand in for those other cities in movies and TV....

[Segun]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Agreed. This is why I think the whole “you can live well without a car in the ‘Big Six’ cities” is highly overrated. The reality is that all of those cities (minus NYC, which is always the outlier in urban discussions) are very limited in terms of neighborhoods* that are anchored by a commercial strip with quality amenities. What’s the point of living in a dense environment if all of the amenities within walking distance (if there are any) are shit quality and you have to trek over to nearby neighborhoods to do all your errands? Me personally, any urban neighborhood I live in absolutely must have the following within walking distance:

1) Chase
2) USPS
3) UPS
4) FedEx
5) Multiple coffee shop options
6) Multiple grocery options
7) Multiple laundromat options
8) Multiple convenience store options
9) Quality, non-chain dining options


*My standard is 5th/7th Avenues in Brooklyn’s Park Slope. Commercials strips in other cities tend to be too short or too spotty.

Funny you say Laundromat. I could see NYC being one of the only cities where most apartment buildings don't have laundry.

I have all those within walking distance from where I live in Evanston. Depends on your definition of walking distance/radius.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by JManc

As far as I know, DTLA is pretty much the only part of the LA area that has that New York/ Chicago old world urban vibe with the density and pre-war development. I think they even use it as a stand in for those other cities in movies and TV....

Westlake/Koreatown/East Holllywood/USC/Pico Uniin/Mid City/Boyle Hts have areas that could be in a old midwest neighborhood, actually. It's not just downtown.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by JManc

As far as I know, DTLA is pretty much the only part of the LA area that has that New York/ Chicago old world urban vibe with the density and pre-war development. I think they even use it as a stand in for those other cities in movies and TV....

Boston, Philadelphia, and San Francisco?

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Segun

Funny you say Laundromat. I could see NYC being one of the only cities where most apartment buildings don't have laundry.

I have all those within walking distance from where I live in Evanston. Depends on your definition of walking distance/radius.

Walking distance is generally 0.5 miles (10 minutes), although 5-6 minutes or less is obviously ideal (especially for grocery shopping).

I guess my frustration is that, as an Angeleno, we’re made to believe that a car-free lifestyle could never be possible here like it is in the Big Six, and yet the standard is so low IMO. Most of Philly, Boston, Chicago, SF, and DC are just blocks and blocks of rowhouses with spotty/underdeveloped/blown out commercial strips. Park Slope’s 5th and 7th Avenues have commercial intensity that spans the entire length of the neighborhood.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Boston, Philadelphia, and San Francisco?

Ya those too..

Originally Posted by LA21st

Westlake/Koreatown/East Holllywood/USC/Pico Uniin/Mid City/Boyle Hts have areas that could be in a old midwest neighborhood, actually. It's not just downtown.

I was actually thinking about those areas as well when I wrote 'DTLA', I just forgot their names.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Quixote

I guess my frustration is that, as an Angeleno, we’re made to believe that a car-free lifestyle could never be possible here like it is in the Big Six, and yet the standard is so low IMO. Most of Philly, Boston, Chicago, SF, and DC are just blocks and blocks of rowhouses with spotty/underdeveloped/blown out commercial strips..

we live in lincoln square, ~7 miles NNW of the loop, and we have walking access to everything on your list (i don't know about laundromats because we have in-unit laundry), along with easy brown line access to downtown.

now, lincoln square's commercial streets are certainly less cohesive/intensive than park slope's (or those of most neighborhoods in NYC), but if i didn't have kids, i could (and most likely would) very easily live car-free in my neighborhood.


as for you being made to believe that you couldn't live in LA without a car, that's on you, man. don't ever let other people tell you what to believe. think for yourself.

also, the whole "car-free" thing on this forum has a whole lot of stupid myths built up around it. if you're childless*, and know how to ride a bike, there are lots of US cities where one could conceivably arrange their life to live an easy and convenient car-free lifestyle.


(*) now that i'm on the other side of the parenthood equation, having a car does make life a million times easier at times.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by JManc

Ya those too..



I was actually thinking about those areas as well when I wrote 'DTLA', I just forgot their names.

I think La Cienga blvd is where LA changes (in general) from pre war to post war. It's kind of cool if you pay attention when traveling through.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Walking distance is generally 0.5 miles (10 minutes), although 5-6 minutes or less is obviously ideal (especially for grocery shopping).

I guess my frustration is that, as an Angeleno, we’re made to believe that a car-free lifestyle could never be possible here like it is in the Big Six, and yet the standard is so low IMO. Most of Philly, Boston, Chicago, SF, and DC are just blocks and blocks of rowhouses with spotty/underdeveloped/blown out commercial strips. Park Slope’s 5th and 7th Avenues have commercial intensity that spans the entire length of the neighborhood.

Those are the same people who say you can't walk to grocery stores and whatever. Yet, there's ton's of grocery stores with in a block or of densely packed neighoborhoods. It never made sense to me.

[Segun]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

we live in lincoln square, ~7 miles NNW of the loop, and we have walking access to everything on your list (i don't know about laundromats because we have in-unit laundry), along with easy brown line access to downtown.

now, lincoln square's commercial streets are certainly less cohesive/intensive than park slope's (or those of most neighborhoods in NYC), but if i didn't have kids, i could (and most likely would) very easily live car-free in my neighborhood.


as for you being made to believe that you couldn't live in LA without a car, that's on you, man. don't ever let other people tell you what to believe. think for yourself.

also, the whole "car-free" thing on this forum has a whole lot of stupid myths built up around it. if you're childless*, and know how to ride a bike, there are lots of US cities where one could conceivably arrange their life to live an easy and convenient car-free lifestyle.


(*) now that i'm on the other side of the parenthood equation, having a car does make life a million times easier at times.

Living carfree with child too. Like how I was raised. It's called a cart lol.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

we live in lincoln square, ~7 miles NNW of the loop, and we have walking access to everything on your list (i don't know about laundromats because we have in-unit laundry), along with easy brown line access to downtown.

now, lincoln square's commercial streets are certainly less cohesive/intensive than park slope's (or those of most neighborhoods in NYC), but if i didn't have kids, i could (and most likely would) very easily live car-free in my neighborhood.

Lincoln Square is great, but what about the city's South and West Sides?

This isn't exclusive to Chicago, either. The point I'm trying to raise is that having convenient (walking distance) access to those amenities is actually a luxury, and not the norm for most of those cities' citizens.

I don't think it's enough to just have a laundromat (for dry cleaning), grocery store, etc. either. If my local laundromat or grocery store each have an average 3-star review on Yelp compared to 4.5 stars for their counterparts two neighborhoods over, I'm going to the latter (thereby necessitating good transit options). I shouldn't have to feel beholden to patronizing my local establishment just because it's within walking distance.

also, the whole "car-free" thing on this forum has a whole lot of stupid myths built up around it. if you're childless*, and know how to ride a bike, there are lots of US cities where one could conceivably arrange their life to live an easy and convenient car-free lifestyle.

True, but bicylcing is never going to be the main mode of transportation for the majority of a large city's population. I think the cities with the highest bike mode share (i.e. Cambridge, MA) are around 15% or so.


*DISCLAIMER: I'm personally too paranoid to ride a bike (especially in LA). Having to solely rely on the bus or Uber/Lyft is also a turn-off, but those are just my preferences. Everyone's different.*

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Lincoln Square is great, but what about the city's South and West Sides?

what about them?

Originally Posted by Quixote

The point I'm trying to raise is that having convenient (walking distance) access to those amenities is actually a luxury, and not the norm for most of those cities' citizens.

luxury or not, i've lived in 7 different chicago neighborhoods over the course of my life, and all of them have been easy to live in car-free.

Originally Posted by Quixote

I don't think it's enough to just have a laundromat (for dry cleaning), grocery store, etc. either. If my local laundromat or grocery store each have an average 3-star review on Yelp compared to 4.5 stars for their counterparts two neighborhoods over, I'm going to the latter (thereby necessitating good transit options). I shouldn't have to feel beholden to patronizing my local establishment just because it's within walking distance.

i guess it's a good thing that i've never used yelp or any online resource to research my dry cleaner or grocery store.

the only thing i've looked to reviews for are restaurants, and lincoln square is LOADED with high quality restaurants, both high-end places and affordable ethnic hole-in-the-walls, and everything in between.

but if i was high-maintenance enough to actually check yelp reviews for grocery stores, and found that a gorcery store two neighborhoods over was very highly rated, and i was so inclined to go there, i live 1 block from an el station and am surrounded on all side by bus routes.

but i probably still wouldn't give a fuck.

Originally Posted by Quixote

bicylcing is never going to be the main mode of transportation for the majority of a large city's population.

that's only because most americans are idiots.

Originally Posted by Segun

Living carfree with child too. Like how I was raised. It's called a cart lol.

oh for sure, it can be done.

just speaking for myself, the convenience of owning a car has been VERY nice now that i have two little screaming drunken midgets that follow me around everywhere i go.

[Hamilton]

A couple of my favorites:

Bergenline Ave in Union City/West New York, NJ. Long known as "Havana on the Hudson" after it became a gathering point for Cuban exiles in the Castro era. 70 almost uninterrupted blocks of retail, often on multiple levels:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7682...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7744...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7773...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7819.../data=!3m1!1e3

5th Ave and 8th Ave in Sunset Park, Brooklyn. 5th Ave is largely Mexican, while 8th Ave, for 20 blocks in parallel to 8th, is almost entirely Chinese.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6391...7i16384!8i8192


https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6460...7i16384!8i8192