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Old Posted Mar 19, 2012, 6:37 PM
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Second Houston International Airport?

I really don't think United has much of an argument here (it'd be different if the corporate HQ was still here). There is nothing they can do to stop Southwest. With the amount of gates and flights that Southwest plans to operate daily, it shouldn't hurt the international businesses at IAH much. With growth in the Houston region, United is still going to have to go through expansion plans at IAH anyway. This will only create cheaper airfare to Latin America and the Caribbean for Houston area travelers. I'm all for it. For screwing with Houston and moving both the corporate AND operational HQ to Chicago, the terrible service they have brought to IAH, as well as the higher airfare prices, United deserves this piece of karma. Even the Mayor down in Houston has commented on the "service" of United.

Quote:
A proposal by Southwest Airlines to offer international flights from Hobby Airport has triggered an intense lobbying duel with United Airlines, which still wields considerable local clout as the successor to Houston-based Continental.

If it gets city approval, Southwest says it would spend an estimated $75 million to $100 million to build a new international terminal equipped with full-scale Customs facilities, as well as to improve the aging airport's domestic terminals. Southwest flights would depart from the new terminal to destinations such as Cancun and the Caribbean.

But United has already broken ground on what may become another international terminal, a $700 million investment piled on top of an additional billion it has pumped into Bush Intercontinental Airport since the late 1990s.

United says this town isn't big enough for both projects.

While the city awaits two consultants' reports, expected next week, on the pros and cons of Hobby going international, both airlines have dispatched emissaries to City Hall. The outcome of their lobbying battle will determine whether Houston becomes the sixth among the nation's 10 largest cities to have two full-scale, international airports.

Mayor Annise Parker and the Houston Airport System director, Mario Diaz, have not publicly picked a side. They say only that they're obligated to listen to Southwest's pitch.
"The airport is not in the position of choosing winners and losers," Diaz said. "We're in a position of laying down a level playing field."

In letters to airport officials in the past week, United has argued that the deal would damage the economy by diluting international traffic at Bush - traffic United depends on to fill overseas flights, many of which originate elsewhere. Those flights create jobs and boost trade by making Houston accessible from spots across the globe, United said in a letter to Parker.

Increased competition

Southwest argues that its plan would create jobs and decrease airfares because United - which dominates local flights to Latin America - would face more competition.

"More passengers will fly to IAH because fares will be lower and that will stimulate demand at both airports," said Ron Ricks, executive vice president for Southwest.
More: http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...923.php#page-1
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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2012, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by the article
The outcome of their lobbying battle will determine whether Houston becomes the sixth among the nation's 10 largest cities to have two full-scale, international airports.
I had to think about the 5 others and figured I would list them (I get 6)...any others?

JFK/EWR/LGA
MIA/FLL
MCO/SFB
SFO/OAK/SJC
LAX/SNA (SNA only offers service to YVR and seasonal service to YYC on Westjet)
ORD/MDW

Wait till Southwest applies for international service from Love Field. That ought to start a sh*tstorm.
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Old Posted Mar 19, 2012, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plinko View Post
I had to think about the 5 others and figured I would list them (I get 6)...any others?

JFK/EWR/LGA
MIA/FLL
MCO/SFB
SFO/OAK/SJC
LAX/SNA (SNA only offers service to YVR and seasonal service to YYC on Westjet)
ORD/MDW

Wait till Southwest applies for international service from Love Field. That ought to start a sh*tstorm.
What about Dulles, BWI and Reagan National?
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Old Posted Mar 19, 2012, 11:49 PM
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Why the hell is UA so scared of WN in a market like Houston? FL has been flying international out of ATL for years and DL couldn't care less. It basically screams that UA is a weak airline.
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Old Posted Mar 20, 2012, 1:35 AM
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Originally Posted by dimondpark View Post
What about Dulles, BWI and Reagan National?
Doh! I knew I forgot one.
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  #6  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2012, 2:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Rail Claimore View Post
Why the hell is UA so scared of WN in a market like Houston? FL has been flying international out of ATL for years and DL couldn't care less. It basically screams that UA is a weak airline.
They're not, but it's good business to make it as difficult as possible for Southwest.
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  #7  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2012, 6:03 AM
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Originally Posted by dimondpark View Post
What about Dulles, BWI and Reagan National?
International
airports
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  #8  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2012, 9:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
They're not, but it's good business to make it as difficult as possible for Southwest.
United is definitely scared. Now they are going to have to lower their prices ay IAH, instead of charging high prices, making IAH one of the most expensive airports in America.. I hope the city let's the Texas company do whatever it wants.
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Old Posted Mar 20, 2012, 2:07 PM
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Originally Posted by atlwarrior View Post
International
airports
Dulles & BWI are international.
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  #10  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2012, 2:20 PM
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And Reagan has non-stop service to Montréal, Toronto, Halifax, Ottawa, Nassau, and Bermuda. I believe these destinations all have preclearance, though.
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Old Posted Mar 20, 2012, 2:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Trae View Post
For screwing with Houston and moving both the corporate AND operational HQ to Chicago, the terrible service they have brought to IAH, as well as the higher airfare prices, United deserves this piece of karma. Even the Mayor down in Houston has commented on the "service" of United.
Is this fact or just anecdotal? I've been flying through Houston every month for over a year now and my experience is that service has been excellent. . . what higher airfare prices are you referring to? United almost always beats Southwest for the destinations I'm flying. . . perhaps it's because I'm flying in and out of ORD but I'm always comparing prices and United is almost always as cheap or within a few dollars of the other big carriers. . .

. . .
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Old Posted Mar 20, 2012, 5:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago View Post
Is this fact or just anecdotal? I've been flying through Houston every month for over a year now and my experience is that service has been excellent. . . what higher airfare prices are you referring to? United almost always beats Southwest for the destinations I'm flying. . . perhaps it's because I'm flying in and out of ORD but I'm always comparing prices and United is almost always as cheap or within a few dollars of the other big carriers. . .

. . .
Service is subjective but here are two recent articles in the Houston Chronicle about less than stellar service at IAH since the merger became official.

Mayor Parker's flight delays came at bad time for airline
Copyright 2012 Houston Chronicle.
By Chris Moran and Kiah Collier
Updated 09:17 p.m., Monday, March 19, 2012

Talk about a bad time to keep the mayor waiting at an airport.

United Airlines is trying to block a proposal by Southwest Airlines to begin international flights out of Hobby Airport. But while United's lobbying team was pressing its case at City Hall last week, the airline delayed Mayor Annise Parker on her departing and returning flight from San Francisco....

http://www.chron.com/default/article...or-3419254.php



Travelers report crowds, delays at United terminal
Copyright 2012 Houston Chronicle
By Carol Christian and Kiah Collier
Updated 10:07 p.m., Saturday, March 10, 2012

Travelers Saturday reported frustration with long lines and delays at United Airlines, which is in the process of merging with Continental Airlines.

Louise Joy, an Austin resident flying from Houston to Honduras for a family vacation, said confusion at George Bush Intercontinental Airport Saturday morning was the worst she'd seen in 10 years of flying on the first day of spring break.

Her family arrived at 8 a.m. Saturday, well ahead of their scheduled 10:30 a.m. flight. They found hundreds of people waiting to get inside the terminal, she said.

After half an hour, they were still outside the terminal, she said. They made it to the departure gate on time because they had pre-printed boarding passes, but five other relatives they met up with at the airport did not.

"This is an absolute nightmare," Joy said, from inside the plane, waiting to take off. "We had such expectations for United, but this is probably going down as one of the worst (situations) they've ever had."....

http://www.chron.com/default/article...al-3397108.php
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  #13  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2012, 8:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago View Post
Is this fact or just anecdotal? I've been flying through Houston every month for over a year now and my experience is that service has been excellent. . . what higher airfare prices are you referring to? United almost always beats Southwest for the destinations I'm flying. . . perhaps it's because I'm flying in and out of ORD but I'm always comparing prices and United is almost always as cheap or within a few dollars of the other big carriers. . .

. . .
I've flown in and out of Houston fairly often for a number of years now, and really, nothing's changed recently at IAH. The airport still sucks (at least Terminals A-B-C, D & E are really nice!), and it's still kind of a mish-mash of expansions over the decades. That being said, I haven't noticed any real price differences recently, and service on United is the same as on Continental, which means bad. Same for Southwest, same for Frontier, USAir, Delta, etc... etc... Let's face it, flying domestically SUCKS, but it's sucked for many years now!

Much of the attacks on United from Houstonians is simply because Continental is no longer officially based there, that's all.

Aaron (Glowrock)
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Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 3:46 AM
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Originally Posted by glowrock View Post
I've flown in and out of Houston fairly often for a number of years now, and really, nothing's changed recently at IAH. The airport still sucks (at least Terminals A-B-C, D & E are really nice!), and it's still kind of a mish-mash of expansions over the decades. That being said, I haven't noticed any real price differences recently, and service on United is the same as on Continental, which means bad. Same for Southwest, same for Frontier, USAir, Delta, etc... etc... Let's face it, flying domestically SUCKS, but it's sucked for many years now!

Much of the attacks on United from Houstonians is simply because Continental is no longer officially based there, that's all.

Aaron (Glowrock)
No US airline has service of a consistent quality that can match some Euro and Asian carriers, but certain airlines seem to have a propensity for bad service. In my experience, this has always been with US and UA.
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Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 6:39 AM
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Originally Posted by dimondpark View Post
What about Dulles, BWI and Reagan National?
Actually, DCA is a perimeter rule. Only IAD & BWI will fly international flights. DCA does not have CBP facility. Only BWI & IAD does have CBP facility.
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Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 6:42 AM
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And Reagan has non-stop service to Montréal, Toronto, Halifax, Ottawa, Nassau, and Bermuda. I believe these destinations all have preclearance, though.
Right, they do have US preclearance from Canada, Bermuda & The Bahamas, too. DCA does not have CBP facility.
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  #17  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 8:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago View Post
Is this fact or just anecdotal? I've been flying through Houston every month for over a year now and my experience is that service has been excellent. . . what higher airfare prices are you referring to? United almost always beats Southwest for the destinations I'm flying. . . perhaps it's because I'm flying in and out of ORD but I'm always comparing prices and United is almost always as cheap or within a few dollars of the other big carriers. . .

. . .
The bad service has been explained, but IAH is one of the most expensive airports to fly out of. It's cheaper to take a trip from Latin America out of Newark, than it is at IAH, fot example, which is suppose to be their "Latin American gateway". Southwest beats any legacy carrier. I cant find a cheaper United ticket than what i would pay using Southwest.
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  #18  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Rail Claimore View Post
No US airline has service of a consistent quality that can match some Euro and Asian carriers, but certain airlines seem to have a propensity for bad service. In my experience, this has always been with US and UA.
I've always had good service with United. Rarely have I dealt with flight delays and I don't think I've ever missed a connection. And I flew upwards of 40,000 miles in 2010 and approximately 22,000 miles last year, exclusively on Star Alliance flights (United, Continental, and US Airways).

I wonder what time Mayor Parker arrived at SFO for her return flight to Houston? Since the airlines have rules you need to be checked-in at least 45 minutes prior to departure, I can't blame them for moving her family back to the next available flight. The airlines have to know how many people are flying to determine how much to fuel the plane. If people aren't checking in until less than 45 minutes before departure, that can create delays for the airline.

And as for her delays going to SFO, I wouldn't be surprised if they were weather-related. The airport has some of the strictest weather rules out there. Since they use dual runways and must land side-by-side in order to hit the max arrival capacity for SFO, pilots must maintain visuals at a higher altitude than most airports. For example, scattered clouds below ~3200 feet can lead to major arrival delays while at most airports this wouldn't cause the slightest problem. Usually an actual ceiling (broken or overcast skies) below 1000 feet is the threshold for potential flight delays at most airports, but SFO is a special case. United has a team of very knowledgeable meteorologists who do their best to forecast ceilings (and wind patterns) every day at SFO. In fact, they're tasked with forecasting the clearing down to the half hour in some cases so that an increase in the arrival rate can be scheduled at that time. I'm very familiar with this as I used to forecast the weather at SFO for United.
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Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 3:39 PM
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IMO, the one domestic airline that manages to rise above the fray is Virgin America. Brand new Airbus a319/320s, leather seats, mood lighting, extensive IFE, onboard outlets, fun, easygoing staff, cool terminal and lobby areas, etc. They really are as good as it gets when it comes to domestic travel. American/United/US Scareways/etc have dated on-board products and offerings, stupid nickel and dime fees for the smallest of amenities, and old, grumpy, menopausal staff. Not to mention aging, unrenovated jets, and small, cramped regional jets on long-ish routes:
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Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 4:43 PM
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Hey, I am all for Houston screwing with United however they can. Because there's another United hub an hour and a half north of there in Denver more than willing to pick up some of that international traffic (with an expansion already underway).

By the way, I'm not sure what Houston is complaining about. That's one of the airports I prefer to connect through if I have to. It's certainly nicer than most, and I've never had any trouble with United. They're a thousand times more pleasant than Southwest's buses with wings.
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