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Old Posted Mar 31, 2007, 5:56 PM
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Pedestrian Mall in the Exchange District

From todays Free Press:

I have long been a proponent of an idea like this...their plan is to close only one block of albert, which i support as a first step, but i can envision one day all of albert from the park to notre dame closed off, with shops all along it.

specialty clothing stores and boutiques are popping up in the exchange, as well as across the city on streets like corydon and academy.....if the city closed off this street and did some renderings showing a destination boutique strip, i think it might work.

waterfront drive, 100 main and now the avenue building RFP shows that winnipeg business steps up for these ideas...it seems they just need the first push....show them the potential and they get on board.

maybe this should be an initiative for the urban advocacy group that you guys are trying to form...i am going to try and contact them to throw my support their way....maybe help them with some renderings.

what are your thoughts?

Power to the pedestrian
Petitioners want to close off a block of Albert Street for foot traffic only


Sat Mar 31 2007

Sitelines / By Ian Tizzard



Susanne Klueppel and Anders Swanson on the stretch of Albert Street they’d like to see closed to vehicular traffic.


SUSANNE Klueppel and Anders Swanson want a first for Winnipeg -- a permanent street closure that would create a pedestrian mall in the middle of a downtown commercial and residential area.
About three weeks ago, they circulated a petition that asks the public works department to study the idea of barring vehicle traffic on a 100-metre stretch of Albert Street between Bannatyne and McDermot avenues.

"We don't want to block emergency vehicles, and there's no getting around delivery trucks, but we'd like to limit it to just that," says Klueppel.


To get the process started, she and Swanson need signatures from 70 per cent of the building and business owners at seven addresses along the block.

"We've been closing the street for Car Free Day two years in a row," says Klueppel, who works at Natural Cycle, a bike shop and messenger service located in one of the petitioned buildings. "It would be nice to have it permanently closed."
Klueppel notes that a number of cities have a pedestrian mall, including Victoria, Ottawa, Montreal, Regina and Calgary.

The initial supporters of the idea are still developing a detailed plan. But the information delivered with the petition showed a small artist's rendition of the block as it looks today, except with people instead of cars on the street.

"If the idea is just to close the street and keep the same streetscape, I won't be for it," says Chad Garchinski, owner of the Fyxx, a restaurant next door to the building in which Klueppel and Swanson work. He says he plans to sign the petition, although with some reservations. "Do they expect many people are going to walk around for the six months of winter?"

"I assume everybody's going to have ideas," says Klueppel, who envisions having benches, public art, street vendors and a place where people who have attended nearby events can congregate. Gino Distasio, director of the Institute of Urban Studies at the University of Winnipeg, agrees that the block as a pedestrian mall could become an added draw for people attending the fringe festival or the jazz festival.

He says urban planners generally accept the need to allow some vehicular traffic on a pedestrian mall during off-peak hours.

But the small distance the block on Albert covers and the small number of vehicles that uses it make a unique combination.

"Traditional pedestrian malls are bigger than what they're proposing, but it might lend itself to being an interesting experiment," says Distasio, who suggests the city could try it out for a month without too much controversy.

"The project needs a traffic study, but it's hard to find fault with the idea on the face of it." Back on Albert Street, business owners see some potential drawbacks.

"It's a nice and simple idea and we're a pedestrian-friendly business," says Bryson Maternick, who owns the Lineup restaurant, across from the Fyxx. "We get a lot of walk-in traffic in the restaurant. But we get drive-up traffic, too," he says, adding that, for now, he supports studying the idea only.

Maternick's concern is well-founded, according to Lisa Holowchuk, executive director of the Exchange District BIZ.

"It's a concept that's worked really well in some cases, and failed miserably in others," she says.

"This isn't something that just affects the businesses facing this block," says Holowchuk, whose organization is trying to maintain an ideal commercial climate in an area where businesses share a lot of customers. "People have to really understand what they're getting into, especially in a city where people love their cars so much."

For his part, Swanson prefers biking and walking to driving, and suggests an argument that mixes his ideals with commerce.

"It's a pretty easy idea to wrap your head around; it's a short block, already cobblestoned," he says. "People associate cars with money. It's true, but it's a matter of whether you depend on people parking directly in front of your door. A Wal-Mart needs cars. A heritage area like this, people prefer to see it on foot."


ian.tizzard@freepress.mb.ca
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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2007, 7:14 PM
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Why mess with a good thing? That block appears to be the city's best example of where cars, bicylces and pedestrians can sucessfully co-exist.

I really don't think half as many of the businesses that opened up on or near Albert Street in the last couple of years would have done so if there was a pedestrian mall.

"I assume everybody's going to have ideas," says Klueppel, who envisions having benches, public art, street vendors and a place where people who have attended nearby events can congregate.
If the park across the street isn't enough "gathering space" for you, I suppose.

Last edited by rgalston; Mar 31, 2007 at 7:43 PM.
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Old Posted Mar 31, 2007, 8:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgalston View Post
Why mess with a good thing? That block appears to be the city's best example of where cars, bicylces and pedestrians can sucessfully co-exist.

I really don't think half as many of the businesses that opened up on or near Albert Street in the last couple of years would have done so if there was a pedestrian mall.

"I assume everybody's going to have ideas," says Klueppel, who envisions having benches, public art, street vendors and a place where people who have attended nearby events can congregate.
If the park across the street isn't enough "gathering space" for you, I suppose.
You may be right. I fear there is not enough of a critical mass of people living in the area and good enough transit near by to ensure opening the street to pedestrians will be successful. For now one block may work, but in the future when tens of thousands of people are living in the area then I could possibly see the entire exchange district becoming a pedestrian village
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Old Posted Mar 31, 2007, 9:46 PM
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I'd prefer to see more carrots for pedestrians than sticks for cars. Make it as pedestrian friendly as possible and ensure that people have priority over cars. Is there an example of a really great pedestrian-only street that works? Sparks Street and Stephen Avenue don't do much for me.
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Old Posted Mar 31, 2007, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
I'd prefer to see more carrots for pedestrians than sticks for cars. Make it as pedestrian friendly as possible and ensure that people have priority over cars. Is there an example of a really great pedestrian-only street that works? Sparks Street and Stephen Avenue don't do much for me.
Good point. The presence of motor vehicles on roadways is not the problem. The problem is when the rapid movement of motor vehicles comes at the expense of other uses--parking, dropping off, shopping, walking, resting--that the street's vibrancy dies out. Albert Street presently strikes a good balance of uses, and that's why it's becoming so popular (and why my wife is spending my money there as we speak). Corydon, a street with higher traffic volumes, also strikes a good balance. Streets with even larger volumes can do that: Manhattan avenues and Parisian boulevards do; Portage Avenue and Main Street used to.

Temporary street closures can be a good thing: they close Bannatyne from Arthur to King during Fringe Fest (don't they close King from Bannatyne to William, too?) and it's great. They could do the same for Albert and Arthur during Fringe, Jazz, and other big events, but I don't think a full time closure is neccessary in making the street more nicer, or would be better for business.
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Old Posted Mar 31, 2007, 10:29 PM
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i dont know...last time i was in calgary, stephen ave was packed....and it was -3C.

i dont agree that it would be messing up a good thing.....i dont consider what is happening in the exchange to be a "good thing" yet...i see about 5% of its potential being met....is it 'so popular'?...99% of winnipegers couldnt find albert street....less have ever shopped there.

i think winnipeg needs a push to develop things like the exchange district...it is busy in the summer during the week, but beyond that people do not go there....i look at a pedestrian street as a marketing tool almost....it will get into the consciousness of winnipeg's public and retailers...look at waterfront drive...it took the city to say, here, build residential in the exchange around this unique feature that we have created.... and they did.....if the city hadnt done that, there would have been no spark for it to happen....and it would not have.

a pedestrian strip might be a similar catalyst....if i am looking to set up a women's clothing boutique, i might think about that street, as it is something different....instead of next to the IGA on taylor....the exchange is not the first place that comes to mind for these retailers or shoppers...but to be part of something unique in the city, it might become an attraction for them....

right now boutique retail is spread across the city...there is no single node...a good marketing campaign along with this idea could begin to create interest in that sector to come together to form something unique.....they wont do it individually...it will take a single bold move to get them to think that way...like waterfront drive.....i am sure that half the people living there never considered living downtown before that developemnt

the west exchange is becoming reasonably attractive, but there is a long long way to go...i would hardly call it successful....the injection of something unique might also give another node, besides the river to develop residential around....marketing a building that overlooks winnipeg's first pedestiran strip might make it attractive beyond just the normal warehouse property.

really, i figure what is there to lose....it might fail, but it might totally work...what is the worst that could happen?...trying new things is the only way to achieve more.

stephen ave was a failure for a decade, but now it is the centre of life in downtown calgary.

the exchange needs a push...something like this might be it....the park has reasonable success....this would draw it further into the neighbourhood....even if it was only seasonal.

Last edited by trueviking; Mar 31, 2007 at 10:38 PM.
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Old Posted Mar 31, 2007, 11:40 PM
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steven ave is nice thats somthing that calgary has i kinda wish we had...
but albert street why not the one a block over... then you can do the hole block from notre dame to old market square fill in the surface lots.....
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Old Posted Apr 1, 2007, 5:46 AM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
i dont know...last time i was in calgary, stephen ave was packed....and it was -3C.

i dont agree that it would be messing up a good thing.....i dont consider what is happening in the exchange to be a "good thing" yet...i see about 5% of its potential being met....is it 'so popular'?...99% of winnipegers couldnt find albert street....less have ever shopped there.

i think winnipeg needs a push to develop things like the exchange district...it is busy in the summer during the week, but beyond that people do not go there....i look at a pedestrian street as a marketing tool almost....it will get into the consciousness of winnipeg's public and retailers...look at waterfront drive...it took the city to say, here, build residential in the exchange around this unique feature that we have created.... and they did.....if the city hadnt done that, there would have been no spark for it to happen....and it would not have.

a pedestrian strip might be a similar catalyst....if i am looking to set up a women's clothing boutique, i might think about that street, as it is something different....instead of next to the IGA on taylor....the exchange is not the first place that comes to mind for these retailers or shoppers...but to be part of something unique in the city, it might become an attraction for them....

right now boutique retail is spread across the city...there is no single node...a good marketing campaign along with this idea could begin to create interest in that sector to come together to form something unique.....they wont do it individually...it will take a single bold move to get them to think that way...like waterfront drive.....i am sure that half the people living there never considered living downtown before that developemnt

the west exchange is becoming reasonably attractive, but there is a long long way to go...i would hardly call it successful....the injection of something unique might also give another node, besides the river to develop residential around....marketing a building that overlooks winnipeg's first pedestiran strip might make it attractive beyond just the normal warehouse property.

really, i figure what is there to lose....it might fail, but it might totally work...what is the worst that could happen?...trying new things is the only way to achieve more.

stephen ave was a failure for a decade, but now it is the centre of life in downtown calgary.

the exchange needs a push...something like this might be it....the park has reasonable success....this would draw it further into the neighbourhood....even if it was only seasonal.
I agree with you ... I think that would be a great place for a pedestrian mall. Its right next to P&M .. so if it were marketed correctly it could easily turn into Winnipeg's very own Stephen Avenue Mall. Restaurants, bars, shops, street venders and cafes .. all combining to make for a really comfortable and vibrant environment.

Just keep in mind when Steven Ave was converted to a pedestrian mall it was a dive ... very grubby. With some good marketing as well as new commericial highrises in the area it has turned out to be extremely successful. The Flames will be opening there new sports bar in the old Palace Theater in the next week or two. I saw them turn on the video screens today, they've placed on the marque. It will raise the level of the strip once it opens. I got a little peak and it is going to be great!! Once it warms up a few degrees Stephen Avenue will be packed ... even on weekends.

If Albert Street becomes as successful as Stephen Ave Mall .. it will become a destination place... and drive up interest in redevloping the older buildings in the area. I really think this is a great idea.
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Old Posted Apr 1, 2007, 6:09 AM
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maybe this should be an initiative for the urban advocacy group that you guys are trying to form...i am going to try and contact them to throw my support their way....maybe help them with some renderings.
Once again you are reading my mind... the group should be a business proponant group. As this role is not really filled directly in terms of downtown revitilization.

You have the Chmaber, which is a business organization, aimed at sharing resources and advocating business interests.

You have Centre Venture which is a city run property marketing group.

... and you have alot of individual businesses which are looking for new ideas and concepts. There is a gap between the three.

If the group could fill the roll of marring the three groups, where concepts and ideas drive new interst in downtown, then you'd have something.

Just saying how you hate parking lots .. or you wished more poeple would live and work downtown ... doesn't really mean much, without solid ideas to drive the demand. It could easily turn into a complaint club, which is not what you want. Keep in mind it is increased demand which leads to developement.

The mission of the group should be to drive demand for downtown revitilization through creative ideas and concepts, communicating and selling those concepts to the business community, development community and the general public.

I realize that a tall order, but with that in mind the possibilities to assist in revitalizing downtown could be much closer to reality.
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Last edited by newflyer; Apr 1, 2007 at 6:21 AM.
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Old Posted Apr 1, 2007, 6:10 AM
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Oh and True Viking .. stop thinking like me. It creeps me out.
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Old Posted Apr 1, 2007, 7:40 AM
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Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
I'd prefer to see more carrots for pedestrians than sticks for cars. Make it as pedestrian friendly as possible and ensure that people have priority over cars. Is there an example of a really great pedestrian-only street that works? Sparks Street and Stephen Avenue don't do much for me.
Rue Prince Arthur in Montreal seems to work just fine. There was a piece I read about how Hong Kong transportation is pedestrianizing streets there. They say there are several criteria you need to make a pedestrian-only street. For instance you can only use fairly narrow streets and you need to have a dense variety of uses nearby
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Old Posted Apr 2, 2007, 1:46 AM
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RE: albert street closure
I can't believe some business owners are concerned about closing that block off to cars - there's only like 5 spots on the whole street! This is friggin unreal

Close the bastard off it'll do car-bound folks some good to walk 10 paces from the car to their favourite shop - oh - and maybe interact with some human beings in the open air in a cobblestone street
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Old Posted Apr 2, 2007, 2:05 AM
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RE: albert street closure
I can't believe some business owners are concerned about closing that block off to cars - there's only like 5 spots on the whole street! This is friggin unreal

Close the bastard off it'll do car-bound folks some good to walk 10 paces from the car to their favourite shop - oh - and maybe interact with some human beings in the open air in a cobblestone street
I agree .. the pedestrain concept for this street would far outweigh the car traffic benefit.

From a business point of view this is a very good idea.
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Old Posted Apr 2, 2007, 2:39 AM
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In many ways this pedestrian mall could be a massive boost to downtown.

Imagine hundreds of people staying after work and dinning and shopping after work... or coming outside during lunch.

Add in a few new restaurants and cafes on the strip... and it could spin into something very exciting.
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Old Posted Apr 2, 2007, 3:22 AM
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- and maybe interact with some human beings in the open air in a cobblestone street
I guess the question is what sort of interactions and what sort of human beings one is likely to find on a closed street in that area.

It could work, but Winnipeg's short summer means that a business that is built on walk-in traffic is going to have to also find a way to attract customers in November, December, January etc.
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Old Posted Apr 2, 2007, 3:25 AM
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I wouldn't mind if they closed Albert St. on Saturday's during the summer months and had a farmers market or something like that.

Otherwise, I don't see a need to close the street, especially during the winter months.
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Old Posted Apr 2, 2007, 3:32 AM
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ooh it looks bustling in that pic
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Old Posted Apr 2, 2007, 8:41 AM
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*Ahem*

Stephen Ave in November... overcast and generally chilly day...


Now, I know that Winnipeg may get a bit, well, colder, but this can work people. Listen to Trueviking, he knows what he's talking about...
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Old Posted Apr 2, 2007, 3:10 PM
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Banker's Hall, Scotia Centre and the Home and Dome Towers are in complexes adjacent to Stephen Avenue. I suspect those five towers house *substantially* more office workers than the complexes at P&M. And of course there are more office towers within a few blocks. I don't think Albert Street has the concentrations at a hand to make it the next Stephen Avenue.

Whatever the merits of blocking off Albert St., comparisons with Calgary seem somewhat pointless.
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Old Posted Apr 2, 2007, 8:27 PM
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aww you would be surprized how many plp work around that area that go and have lunch around there spend a day in the exchange some time and watch the plp...

now if the bay in downtown calgary would get some serious renovations its a tad bit run down...
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