Urban Design in Edmonton

[Coldrsx]

Trying hard to not make comments about our main floors/public realm after walking around Paris at the moment...

That said, a good reminder of how many dead/quiet streets there are here.

[Albicaulis]

^
Check out Brasserie O'neil (brew pub, in the 6th ARR) if you have a chance.

[Coldrsx]

^Walked by today, may be back in that area, will make note, thanks.

Also, why did about 20,000 people here have dinner on heat patios tonight at +10C and yet at 10C in Edmonton we pack everything up for the winter?

[Daveography]

^ Because for a northern, winter city, we're surprisingly a bunch of pussies.

I mean, seriously, the amount of complaining I hear at every first snowfall of the season...

[Coldrsx]

Yup, truly discouraging and upsetting. Here, throw a heater on, block the wind, have a blanket and thousands of people out, smoking, drinking, eating, people watching with jackets on, scarves etc. In Edmonton if it is not 23C and sun, no patio for you!

[noodlenoodle]

Paris:

The warm season lasts from June 13 to September 8 with an average daily high temperature above 22°C. The hottest day of the year is August 6, with an average high of 25°C and low of 15°C.

The cold season lasts from November 16 to March 5 with an average daily high temperature below 10°C. The coldest day of the year is February 9, with an average low of 1°C and high of 7°C.

Edmonton:

The warm season lasts from May 18 to September 13 with an average daily high temperature above 17°C. The hottest day of the year is July 20, with an average high of 23°C and low of 12°C.

The cold season lasts from November 22 to March 16 with an average daily high temperature below -1°C. The coldest day of the year is January 20, with an average low of -16°C and high of -7°C.

The average fraction of time spent in various temperature bands: frigid (below -9°C), freezing (-9°C to 0°C), cold (0°C to 10°C), cool (10°C to 18°C), comfortable (18°C to 24°C), warm (24°C to 29°C), hot (29°C to 38°C) and sweltering (above 38°C).

I wonder why many restaurants choose to close their patios roughly at the same time as the weather begins to be too unpredictable to schedule effectively more than a few days out & the available workforce shrinks thanks to the commencement of the school year. It truly, truly is a mystery for the ages.

[mcc16]

Although I agree that Edmonton can do better, it's a little silly to compare Edmonton with a city that is one of the largest tourist draws in the world...or anywhere in Europe for that matter. Here in Dublin it's the same. Patios are usually covered because it rains ALL THE TIME, but they're always fully of people. But sitting on a patio on a pedestrian only street in a pedestrian only neighbourhood surrounded by 300 year old buildings with pubs and cafes every 3 steps catering to countless tourists is a little different than sitting on a patio anywhere in Edmonton. Closing rice Howard and/or 104st to traffic might encourage a little bit of Europe to develop in Edmonton though.

[Albicaulis]

IMO, there's definitely a market for a well designed patio that's open into/beyond the shoulder seasons in EDM. Toronto has numerous patios that are open year-round (and I'd take dry and -15 in Edmonton over humid and -5 in Toronto any day).
RHW would be an excellent area to facilitate this, let other businesses observe and replicate if successful.

[MalcolmTucker]

I expect lots of these districts even in northern cities is like La Rambla. 90% tourists. Less in Scandi, as they are just smaller, less tourism focused centres.

Also, much easier to justify an investment for a months long -5'C window of activity, where thin gloves can be worn, than relatively short shoulders.

[SHOFEAR]

Guarantee you that a good chunk of people living in those cramped and dense year round patio cities would trade it all in for the kinds of back yards we enjoy here.

[McBoo]

Originally Posted by tele75

Fantastic photos Dave!

Was reallllllly liking KR before.

Lovvving it now.

[Coldrsx]

This is not complicated, it is a choice and we make certain choices. Tonight it was +7C, raining and not a tourist in sight, well except us, but the locals were on heated, covered patios and it got busier as it got later after work.

We need awnings, wind blocks, heaters, more blankets and get the F&*$ out there instead of resorting to climate controlled interiors, malls, homes.

As for your comments Noods, I appreciate your sentiments and acceptance that Edmonton is 'Edmonton', versus making real change.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

Guarantee you that a good chunk of people living in those cramped and dense year round patio cities would trade it all in for the kinds of back yards we enjoy here.

Guarantee you that that chunk is rather petite. As your may/could/should know, patio and cafe culture is incredible. All ages, races, sexes, incomes, meet for conversation, vinos, snacks, smokes, kids, business etc.

Just a reminder that there is more to life than running back to season 3-7.

[noodlenoodle]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

It reaffirms that we really prefer our homes, SUVs, malls, power centres versus mongers, butchers, florists, cafes.

Exactly. You are anything but a typical Edmontonian in your lifestyle, opinions & preferences, yet you purport to speak for all of us & rail against people living the lives they want to live, how they want to live them.

Most Edmontonians would rather do all of their grocery shopping once a week & get it all at one place because that's the most time-efficient way to do it & they have sh!t to do. We've got sufficient specialty stores to reflect the market demand for the vast majority of the market (I think we're shy a few bakeries & I can't speak to the meat side of the thing, given my 20+ years of vegetarianism) when they choose to indulge in something more special. Many Edmontonians are content to get their coffee at a chain, a drive thru or at a friend's kitchen table vs a café.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Trying to shift the better part of a million people's opinions to make Edmonton more "your" kind of place at the cost of making it less "their" sort of place isn't really a reasonable/feasible idea. Accept the fact you're the odd man out & not representative of the vast, vast majority of people in the city & stop admonishing or otherwise denigrating other people for their own personal preferences.

Maybe then those of us tired of the false consensus that remaining silent in the echo chamber gives tacit approval to will stop coming out of the woodwork whenever you attempt to speak for anyone but yourself. Even with your chorus of sycophants, yes-men & defenders you're not representative of vast swaths of your fellow residents.

[noodlenoodle]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Guarantee you that that chunk is rather petite. As your may/could/should know, patio and cafe culture is incredible. All ages, races, sexes, incomes, meet for conversation, vinos, snacks, smokes, kids, business etc.

Just a reminder that there is more to life than running back to season 3-7.

But you can't divorce "café culture" from hundreds of years of French history. France is France. Canada is Canada. This is exactly my point in my objections to your arrogant condescending attempts to try and Frankenstein various swaths of foreign culture into a society that doesn't share the same priorities, constraints, beliefs & goals.

This is one of the most condescending, close-minded, dismissive & arrogant comments you've ever made & that's saying something.

[feepa]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

This is not complicated, it is a choice and we make certain choices. Tonight it was +7C, raining and not a tourist in sight, well except us, but the locals were on heated, covered patios and it got busier as it got later after work.

We need awnings, wind blocks, heaters, more blankets and get the F&*$ out there instead of resorting to climate controlled interiors, malls, homes.

As for your comments Noods, I appreciate your sentiments and acceptance that Edmonton is 'Edmonton', versus making real change.

I want my climate controlled interiors, malls and homes. Stop telling me and others how we should live. I don't live in France, or Tokyo, or whereever you are heading to next. I live in Canada. I dare you to find another Canadian city that has patio life at +7C ... you wont. Why? Because we have climate controlled interiors, malls and homes.

I think you'll find that you are only looking at the issue from one aspect. Noodle is quite right about staffing these patios. We live in a much different world than France. Maybe its hard for you to grasp this, but try, just for once, looking outside of your limited point of view. Your limited point of view is why you ran away from C2E. It was too hard for you to grasp that the whole world doesn't prescribe to the IanO notion of how the world should work, and were confronted on it, and rather than trying to look at another point of view, you took your bat, and went home.

This is why we have pedways, and indoor food courts, and winter gardens. This is why we have indoor malls, and lead the world in automobile usage, with car starters, and heated seats. It's fucking cold outside in the winter. The harshest climate of just about any metro with a population more than 1 million people. We make the most of the summer months we have.

[Hardhatdan]

This is such a ridiculous waste of time for both/the three of you, every single time. Why do you keep debating each other?

The only i can think to say is that if there was every a place to express pie-eyed unrealistic idealism about making Edmonton something it isn't today and likely will never be on a large scale, it might be a place called "skyscraperpage.com"...so I shrug it off as just that. It's really why I joined this site way too many years ago, to escape the reality of what Edmonton generally is and find a hive mind of more urban focused discussion. It's likely why we all joined, but now that doesn't fit with people's lifestyle choices and somehow the purpose of the site should change to suit and reflect that?
Wrong forum for the reality of Edmonton...C2E really should be the place for it, but the same useless fighting happens there. I'm guilty as anyone of getting into it, but at this point I consider deleting my accounts from both sites every single day. I guess it might be time to do it.

[Kevin_foster]

Heated interiors are great. Malls can be helpful. Even though it kills my soul a little, box stores are handy. Big back yards are great for kids.

Cafes are great, and so are patios. Independent florists, bakers, butchers and brewers are awesome. We need lots more of those. Heated patios are a fantastic idea. Let's try it. Small backyards or shared spaces are awesome too, less maintenance and more communal. I like the idea of a smaller footprint and a minimal lifestyle. I also don't begrudge those who have a 3 car garage and fill it with Y Flickers and a second fridge.

It's not one or the other folks. It's ok to like the status quo, but also, it's ok to like other things too and adopt things from other places to implement here.

Paris is like 2,000 years old. Edmonton less than 200. They've had time to create their own schtick, and we have ample time to create ours. Let's just do it right.

Personally, having spent lots of time in europe - I prefer some aspects of their lifestyle to ours. But, with my proximity to the mountains, the convenience of getting around here on my own accord and being able to pick up a 2 gallon jug of processed cheese at 2AM because I just want to, is good enough to keep me happy. I'd love more ideas from other places brought over here just to make it that much better. I'm also not under the "grass is greener" dillusion because I know many of the things I can do and get here I would yearn for over there. Visa versa.

I like things.

I like lamp.

[s4.audios]

^Very good point, I love lamps too.

Oh and the rest of your post is very truthful too I guess.

[Hardhatdan]

Originally Posted by feepa

Sounds like you actually hate Edmonton. I love my city, every bit of it. From the skyscrapers downtown to the "urban sprawl" you guys all hate, the massive industries that employ the majority of our citizenry, and the LRT, and freeways, and the large river valley and beyond. I'm certainly not in denial as to what this city actually is.
When I signed up to C2E and SSP, I didn't notice anything that said "Thou shalt agree to the hive mind, and not produce independent thoughts and opinion that differ from said hive mind" if the TOS has changed, please show me where, and I'll gather my hat and be on my way.

Your reading comprehension continues to be outstanding.