London Roads

[haljackey]

London's urban growth boundary ends at Digman Creek, south of Digman drive and north of the 402.

This means that unless things change, we won't see any urban development between the 402 and 401 on Wonderland.

I believe Wal-Mart owns the land on the SE corner of Wonderland and Exeter, and that they're waiting to build a store there when traffic volumes/competition warrants it. I think it's likely to be a supercentre.
-They originally wanted to build where the Home Depot is now at Southdale and Wonderland, but the land owner wouldn't sell, only lease. Wal-Mart doesn't lease land.

[MolsonExport]

Five London roads in running for Ontario's worst roads: CAA

With just two days left in the voting, London has five roads in the top 50 on the CAA's list of the worst roads in Ontario.

Among them, Egerton Street, Hyde Park Road, Ferndale Avenue, Sarnia Road and Wharncliffe Road South.


Read more: http://london.ctvnews.ca/five-london...#ixzz3136FkxR4

[haljackey]

Construction begins today on London's first two-lane roundabout at Wonderland and Sunningdale.

http://www.am980.ca/2014/06/16/work-...st-roundabout/

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Construction begins today on London's first two-lane roundabout at Wonderland and Sunningdale.

http://www.am980.ca/2014/06/16/work-...st-roundabout/

As the neighbourhood has grown in that area of the city, so too has the number of collisions. A staff report says there have been 30 collisions at the Sunningdale and Wonderland intersection since January 2007 – 57% of them a result of “right-angle movements.” Three of those crashes have been fatal.

That is pretty awful. 3 fatalities. And only after which the city takes action? Collateral damage?

[haljackey]

Better late than never, I guess.

[haljackey]

Found a diagram of the design.

Technically the roundabout isn't two lanes as the outer lanes are dedicated right turn / slip lanes.



I think it's designed to be retrofitted for two lanes though.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Found a diagram of the design.

Technically the roundabout isn't two lanes as the outer lanes are dedicated right turn / slip lanes.



I think it's designed to be retrofitted for two lanes though.

I am okay with that design, it is not a lot of work to upgrade it when the need is there.

I wish the Hale/Trafalgar roundabout was the same design

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

I wish the Hale/Trafalgar roundabout was the same design

The roundabout at Hale/Trafalgar is tighter than normal roundabouts as it is also a rail overpass... Building one with the proper dimensions would have cost a lot more.

I sometimes drive it on my commute to/from work when other roads are backed up. I find that most drivers are not signalling at all and people entering the roundabout are a little paranoid and can stop to wait for a large gap to open before entering. It's still way better than what used to be there.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by haljackey

The roundabout at Hale/Trafalgar is tighter than normal roundabouts as it is also a rail overpass... Building one with the proper dimensions would have cost a lot more.

I sometimes drive it on my commute to/from work when other roads are backed up. I find that most drivers are not signalling at all and people entering the roundabout are a little paranoid and can stop to wait for a large gap to open before entering. It's still way better than what used to be there.

I drive it daily and while it is a dramatic improvement over the past 5pm trains I do wish they spent the extra money to make it a proper 2 lane as it would have made traffic flow that much better.

Also add to that as you mentioned virtually no one signals properly and people are clueless which causes some slowdowns.

It will be nice to have more in the city, in time the general public will be aware of how they function (I hope). I would love to see a full 2 lane roundabout put at the Wharncliffe/Wonderland South intersection one day.

[Pimpmasterdac]

This is the first of several roundabouts on Sunningdale. There's others planned for Hyde Park Rd and Adelaide, though not sure when they'd be built.

The Wonderland/Wharncliffe/Exeter Triangle of Doom needs something done. When the Lambeth/SWA Plans were initially put forward they considered realigning Wharncliffe to go straight west before the triangle and meet with Colonel Talbot, but the Lambeth yokels made a big stink, while they don't like traffic, they don't want traffic to totally bypass the area... If and when Walmart goes in, that area will be bullshit busy. It would be interesting if the city made the triangle a giant roundabout, but with the grand boulevard plans for Wonderland doubtful now...

I'm suprised the city doesn't put roudnabouts at T intersecting roads (Boler/Southdale, Pond Mills/Southdale, Commissioners/Adelaide) and awkward intersections (Egerton/Hamilton/Trafalgar, Hamilton/Gore). Seem to be perfect candidates for at least studying the idea.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

That is pretty awful. 3 fatalities. And only after which the city takes action? Collateral damage?

Honestly I have driven by that intersection on a few occasions, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. The thing's just a standard rural road junction, not a nightmare like the old Hale/Trafalgar, the Egerton Boondoggle or the Wharncliffe-Exeter-Wonderland Triangle of Doom. It's not even inherently flawed, like the Warden-Ellesmere intersection in Toronto. People are just not careful.

Originally Posted by haljackey

Found a diagram of the design.

Technically the roundabout isn't two lanes as the outer lanes are dedicated right turn / slip lanes.



I think it's designed to be retrofitted for two lanes though.

Nice design. I like it. Personally, I think people will gradually grow accustomed to roundabouts, even the multi-lane types. There are a bunch in Waterloo RM and Oxford Coounty, everyone there seems to have them figured out. Londoners will learn to ditch the intersection in time.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

I'm suprised the city doesn't put roudnabouts at T intersecting roads (Boler/Southdale, Pond Mills/Southdale, Commissioners/Adelaide) and awkward intersections (Egerton/Hamilton/Trafalgar, Hamilton/Gore). Seem to be perfect candidates for at least studying the idea.

I think spacing is an issue. One is planned for the oddly-angled Commissioners-Hamilton-Old Victoria intersection.

[HillStreetBlues]

I have to mention that roundabouts are generally pretty terrible for people on foot, and even more so when motorists are not well-accustomed to them.

Obviously, this isn’t a consideration at Wonderland/Sunningdale (or Wonderland/Wharncliffe). But, no, they should not be used in urban areas like Adelaide/Commissioners. That would not be good for the many people who use that intersection on foot.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues

I have to mention that roundabouts are generally pretty terrible for people on foot, and even more so when motorists are not well-accustomed to them.

Obviously, this isn’t a consideration at Wonderland/Sunningdale (or Wonderland/Wharncliffe). But, no, they should not be used in urban areas like Adelaide/Commissioners. That would not be good for the many people who use that intersection on foot.

Why do you feel they are terrible for people on foot? If everyone understands the rules of how a roundabout functions it is better for everyone being on foot, bike or in a car. I do agree the issue now in London is that generally people do not understand how to drive on them but that will come in time if the city continues to implement them.

I do not think the correct answer is to not build them as it has been proven time and time again they are much better for all involved compared to a standard intersection.

As for (Egerton/Hamilton/Trafalgar) Pimpmaster mentioned I wish that at least was looked at for a roundabout, however spacing is the major issue. That church being re-built if that could have been removed instead it may have been possible but now it is simply to tight of a space.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

Why do you feel they are terrible for people on foot? If everyone understands the rules of how a roundabout functions it is better for everyone being on foot, bike or in a car. I do agree the issue now in London is that generally people do not understand how to drive on them but that will come in time if the city continues to implement them.

I do not think the correct answer is to not build them as it has been proven time and time again they are much better for all involved compared to a standard intersection.

Just because you say something’s been proven time and time again, doesn’t mean that’s true. I know that they decrease vehicle accidents. I don’t think they’re better for cyclists, but I’m unsure about that.

I know that modern roundabouts are different than “traffic circles.” I admit that they offer the advantage to people on foot of only having to watch for potentially deadly motor traffic from one direction. But the main aim of roundabouts is to allow motor vehicles to continue moving. That’s not good for people on foot. At some roundabouts motorists are required to yield to people on foot, but that’s usually not the case and compliance with this can be an issue, anyway (especially in southern Ontario…). More often, people have to wait for a gap, and that’s really terrible, particularly for people with mobility issues or visual impairment. When it’s a multi-lane roundabout, this is even worse.

[haljackey]

Roundabouts seem to work well in European cities, although some of the larger ones have pedestrian signals or tunnels.

[MrSlippery519]

They are fine for pedestrians, now if we are talking very busy 2 lane + roundabouts no question trying to walk past that would be a nightmare. That said typically in Europe if those situations occurred as Haljackey mentioned there would be signals, and in other cases they have walk ways if traffic is very dense.

A roundabout certainly is not always the right answer for every intersection, but in most cases they work better for all parties involved.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues

Obviously, this isn’t a consideration at Wonderland/Sunningdale (or Wonderland/Wharncliffe). But, no, they should not be used in urban areas like Adelaide/Commissioners. That would not be good for the many people who use that intersection on foot.

Adelaide/Commissioners is already not pedestrian friendly. They have railings and barriers to stop people walking on the east side across Commissioners (as there's a double left turn southbound).

Originally Posted by haljackey

I think spacing is an issue. One is planned for the oddly-angled Commissioners-Hamilton-Old Victoria intersection.

Spacing is an issue in some areas. Egerton/Hamilton/Trafalgar would've been perfect had the city used foresight and not allowed the new church to be built so close. While there are some shitholes the city could expropriate near there that are abandoned, don't see that happening.

Southdale/Boler and Southdale/Pond Mills however don't suffer from space constraints they both have vacant land to the south and could be done. Boler especially as the area continues to grow leaps and bounds.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

A roundabout certainly is not always the right answer for every intersection, but in most cases they work better for all parties involved.

I agree with the first part of that statement, and agree that they are probably a sensible solution at some intersections. Are you sure it’s “most cases” that they work better “for all parties”?

Without signals, a roundabout deprives someone on foot of the right of way (unless motor vehicles should yield to all people wanting to cross- is that what you’re saying?). The situation becomes one in which the much faster, larger, less vulnerable traffic is given priority, and the slower more vulnerable traffic has to “wait for a gap.” I can’t personally imagine what it would be like to be disabled having to wait for an even larger gap that will come at some undetermined time, but it’s frustrating as an able-bodied person to have to wait for gaps in traffic that by definition are at undetermined intervals. I am at a loss as to how folks with visual impairment are expected to have any mobility at all with places where they are expected to ‘Yield to Traffic’ and ‘Wait for Gap.’

Add this to the fact that roundabouts increase walking distance between points…how exactly are they “fine for pedestrians”?

Pimpmasterdac, I don’t think I claimed that Adelaide/Commissioners is friendly for people on foot. It’s atrocious. It would not be improved by a roundabout. Accurately stating that it is bad in its present state doesn’t suggest that it is okay to change its configuration to make it worse.

[MolsonExport]

As a part-time pedestrian, I have to agree that roundabouts are not at all friendly for pedestrians, unless you enjoy playing Russian roulette with the whirling cars. There never seems to be a clear understanding of when pedestrians actually have the right of way. My children have been almost flattened by numb-skulled mega-pickup-truck asswipes (God, London has these jerks in spades) and souped-up second-hand Honda civics racing through the intersection.


Ontario is terrible for pedestrian respect. In BC, where I once lived, you step on the crosswalk and cars must immediately come to a full stop, both directions, or risk a massive ticket. That is the way it should be here.

Try crossing the road at Hyde Park Rd. and Coronation. I spent 15 minutes there the other day with my son, trying to get to the park on the other side. Imfuckingpossible. Had to walk all the way to Gainsborough to cross, then walk back down.

London is carland.