Canada Line races toward capacity

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Well, we are apparently building a 10 lane bridge there, so...

Fair point

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

but that's a 150+ year idea.

Fun fact - the BCER 110 years ago went as far as purchasing land for a terminal in Ladner to extend the interurban network.

[cornholio]

[QUOTE=Metro-One;7715286][QUOTE=Rico;7715270]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Grass is always greener.

We have had this same conversation before many times.

The Canada Line can still expand to 2.5 times its current passenger volumes via previously planned expansions (50 meters, more frequent trains, third C car).

Given that the current ridership is already well over 100 000 daily and the region that it services, doubling the current ridership is far more difficult than people think. This is not an LRT currently moving 30 000 people a day, where the idea of ridership doubling with a few tweaks to land management is far more achievable.

The only mid-term improvement I would like to see that were not planned expansions would be a new South entrance onto Robson street from VCC, a new entrance at Bridgeport, and Spanish solution 2nd platforms at YVR and Brighouse (YVR looks to be already considering this). /

No I didn't, because I did not need to mention those sources (or any source) directly.

Yes, those developments will add passengers, but again outside of the few additions I mentioned, larger improvements won't be needed for a longtime.

Again, 2.5 times the current ridership can still be achieved under the originally planned for expansions.

That is around 200 000 more daily passengers. I don't think people on here actually understand how large of a number that is for a transit line serving this specific corridor, even with all the developments happening / planned.

And by the time that does happen, the age of the line will require a major upgrade anyways, or our region will have matured to the point where a new north / south corridor is required and / or a rapid commuter rail system.

By the time that happens 99% of cars will be electric and driver-less, AI will have advanced to unimaginable levels, technological advances in areas we are not even thinking about today will have changed the world in amazing ways and we would all be dead or close to it, etc. No point in thinking 50 to 100 years out regarding this line. Personally I think the way people move around will be so different in that time frame that most of our rapid transit infrastructure will be obsolete anyways.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

Fun fact - the BCER 110 years ago went as far as purchasing land for a terminal in Ladner to extend the interurban network.

In an era where cars and buses did not exist.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cornholio

By the time that happens 99% of cars will be electric and driver-less, AI will have advanced to unimaginable levels, technological advances in areas we are not even thinking about today will have changed the world in amazing ways and we would all be dead or close to it, etc. No point in thinking 50 to 100 years out regarding this line. Personally I think the way people move around will be so different in that time frame that most of our rapid transit infrastructure will be obsolete anyways.

Not unless we have skycar taxis or teleporters at three bucks per trip. Fast, cheap, traffic-independent public transit will always be a thing.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Jebby

How many is that? Like 500 a day max?

LOL...do I detect skepticism as to the level of attraction that the Canada Line affords the airline customers at YVR? Well I for one (as an international user) have noticed over the past few years an increasing number of local and international airline users hauling their luggage on the Canada line. By-the-way, wasn't the Canada Line designed to accommodate the heightened YVR passenger load visiting the 2010 Olympics?

[WarrenC12]

YVR Station has always been really busy when I'm going to/from YVR. No idea if it's tourists or locals though, that can be pretty tough to tell just looking at people, everybody has a suitcase coming from somewhere else after all.

That $5 add fare makes for some sweet profit margin on those rides though.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Sheba]

A few details I've pulled from the 2015 Transit Service Performance Review I linked to earlier. I had to use M-F average daily entries as that's all that's currently available for Expo Line (2011 for that - I used 2015 (the latest available) for Canada Line):

Granville - 21,500
City Centre - 16,000

Comm / Bway - 47,700
City Hall - 11,500

Metrotown - 24,300
Oakridge - 7,700


Surrey vs Richmond (trunk line):

Scott Road - 8,500 / Gateway - 5,800 / Sry Central - 12,200 / King Geo - 12,600
Bridgeport - 10,400 / Aberdeen 4,400 / Lansdowne - 4,000 / Brighouse - 9,900


Oh and btw:

YVR–Airport - 7,400

Somehow armageddon doesn't coming to mind when I see those Canada Line numbers.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

Marpole, Kerrisdale, and West Broadway are not insubstantial

But the likelihood of increased density in those areas seems minute at best.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Sheba

A few details I've pulled from the 2015 Transit Service Performance Review I linked to earlier. I had to use M-F average daily entries as that's all that's currently available for Expo Line (2011 for that - I used 2015 (the latest available) for Canada Line):

And note that, the growth in Expo ridership between 2011 and 2016 is about 25%. The growth in Canada Line from 2015 to 2016 is about 1 or 2%.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by nname

And note that, the growth in Expo ridership between 2011 and 2016 is about 25%. The growth in Canada Line from 2015 to 2016 is about 1 or 2%.

The next set of ridership numbers should be interesting then. Right now I can only list off what they've provided.

Like this - any stations that top 10,000 average daily entries as well as any stations lower than the lowest Expo Line station (Royal Oak).

Expo Line:

Comm Bway - 47,700

Metrotown - 24,300
Burrard - 21,500
Granville - 21,500
Waterfront - 21,300

Joyce - 14,600
Stadium - 14,200
Main St - 13,200
King George - 12,600
Columbia - 12,500
Surrey Central - 12,200
Edmonds - 11,200

Royal Oak - 5,100


Canada Line:

City Centre - 16,000
Waterfront - 13,700
Bway City Hall - 11,500
Bridgeport - 10,400

Aberdeen - 4,400
Olympic Village - 4,000
Lansdowne - 4,000


Other than Broadway the only Millennium Line station with decent numbers (will be interesting when the Evergreen numbers show up).

Lougheed - 14,400

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Sheba

.....................

|Canada Line numbers versus Expo Line pax shown(sic)} .......

Other than Broadway the only Millennium Line station with decent numbers (will be interesting when the Evergreen numbers show up).

Lougheed - 14,400

That'll chnge when SOLO The Amazing Brentwood, Concord South Brentwood and environs are built out. That'll one major stop. Right in what will be one of the densest nodes in metro.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

That'll chnge when SOLO The Amazing Brentwood, Concord South Brentwood and environs are built out. That'll one major stop. Right in what will be one of the densest nodes in metro.

No argument. At the moment I'm waiting on the 2016 numbers (likely before Evergreen came online) and then we'll have to wait until those buildings are completed and people start moving in.

It's not going to help Canada Line numbers though. I'm inclined to agree with jollyburger that the developments along there won't bump the numbers up too much. Even with the future stations, Canada Line isn't going to need much expansion beyond what's already planned. The only station that will really need some work is Broadway City Hall once the Millennium Line is extended that far.

[fredinno]

[QUOTE=Reecemartin;7716137][QUOTE=cornholio;7715819]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

One interesting thing to think of is that in that time period the amount of sea level rise will probably have Richmond constantly fending of water. It's actually very scary when you look at some of the more dramatic sea level rise predictions, alot of areas near False Creek as well of South of the Frsser may be underwater if we don't build some truly unbelievable infrastructure. Also interesting to consider what will happen to Richmond and the CL in the case of a serious earthquake with significant liquefaction.

On another note whoever said that YVR probably only gets 500 riders a day should really try riding the CL, tons use it to go to the outlets and alot use it to go to parking lots from the airport as well not to mention the significant numbers who use it to go home or to a hotel.

Turns out Richmond is actually essentially at sea level NOW- an especially high tide could probably flood most of it without the dikes.

At least Vancouver is a good distance away from the Juan de Fuca subduction zone. And the Chinese in Richmond have lots of experience, dealing with flooding.



They need it to make all their rice.

Originally Posted by Sheba

The next set of ridership numbers should be interesting then. Right now I can only list off what they've provided.

Like this - any stations that top 10,000 average daily entries as well as any stations lower than the lowest Expo Line station (Royal Oak).

Expo Line:

Comm Bway - 47,700

Metrotown - 24,300
Burrard - 21,500
Granville - 21,500
Waterfront - 21,300

Joyce - 14,600
Stadium - 14,200
Main St - 13,200
King George - 12,600
Columbia - 12,500
Surrey Central - 12,200
Edmonds - 11,200

Royal Oak - 5,100


Canada Line:

City Centre - 16,000
Waterfront - 13,700
Bway City Hall - 11,500
Bridgeport - 10,400

Aberdeen - 4,400
Olympic Village - 4,000
Lansdowne - 4,000


Other than Broadway the only Millennium Line station with decent numbers (will be interesting when the Evergreen numbers show up).

Lougheed - 14,400

Wonder why Millennium was built before Canada, or at least not built as originally planned way back in the day- as the Evergreen Line.

Instead, the Millennium Line duplicated the Expo on Lougheed. It's not useless, but there were so many better places to build a new Skytrain at the time...

Originally Posted by trofirhen

That'll chnge when SOLO The Amazing Brentwood, Concord South Brentwood and environs are built out. That'll one major stop. Right in what will be one of the densest nodes in metro.

Let's face it, the UBC extension will be Millennium's savior.

Originally Posted by Jebby

Arbutus is not a viable option as a relief line for the Canada Line. I would bet that a very small percentage of ridership along the CL is coming from west of Granville.

That's because it's suburbs now. Cambie was fairly low density before C-Line was a thing. In fact, a lot of it is still now. Flying on Google Earth reveals plenty of old suburban homes, lying around Cambie.

Also, I envision the relief line as Commuter Rail.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Well, we are apparently building a 10 lane bridge there, so...

It's different. There's at least Truck traffic from nearby industrial districts to supply a constant backup if SHTF. Plus, 99 actually goes to Peace Arch and South Surrey/White Rock, along with Tswassen.

Originally Posted by Jebby

How many is that? Like 500 a day max?

That's probably the amount of new Asian immigrants going into Transit every day.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by fredinno

And the Chinese in Richmond have lots of experience, dealing with flooding.

They need it to make all their rice.

Really? You think this the kind of comment that will make people take your arguments seriously?

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Really? You think this the kind of comment that will make people take your arguments seriously?

Fredy's fresh off the Turnip truck from the Valley. I'm sure he'll figure it out eventually.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Wonder why Millennium was built before Canada, or at least not built as originally planned way back in the day- as the Evergreen Line.

Instead, the Millennium Line duplicated the Expo on Lougheed. It's not useless, but there were so many better places to build a new Skytrain at the time...

Politics. The NDP were in power, the first phase of the Millennium line served primarily NDP ridings. That's it. Also Glen Clark was fond of make-work projects that were incredibly poorly planned. We may complain about the fast ferries, but that was not the only capital project.

http://canadianelectionatlas.blogspo...mbia-maps.html
1996:


Compare 2009:

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Wonder why Millennium was built before Canada, or at least not built as originally planned way back in the day- as the Evergreen Line.

I wonder why Canada Line doesn't have much higher numbers than Millennium Line - after all it has retail centres and residential, along with frequent bus service at pretty much every single Vancouver station vs Millennium travelling through a fair amount of currently industrial lands and next to some greenspace, and has infrequent bus service at most of it's stations.

Plus if you knew anything about local issues you would have known that the Richmond line was the first one planned, but there was major nimby action (esp from South Granville). Expo Line was built first as there was nowhere near as much opposition. There was still opposition by the time they started planning the next line, hence why Millennium was built then. Canada Line happened when the Olympics was announced and it was forced through.

Originally Posted by Kisai

Politics. The NDP were in power, the first phase of the Millennium line served primarily NDP ridings. That's it.

That too...