I keep hearing "Toronto is coming close to Chicago" but I dont see it

[koops65]

I thought Toronto was welcome to expansion, especially West into Mississauga, but the former long time mayor was against joining (or being swallowed by) Toronto?

[softee]

Originally Posted by kolchak

And last if you think its just the North Side - here is the West Side Wicker Park area. Again older and dense and not a lot of open land for high rises - although its beginning to happen here.

Wikimedia


Imgur

Toronto also has a surprising number of old neighbourhood commercial strips outside the downtown area despite it being much smaller than Chicago in the pre-war era. Unlike Chicago, Toronto's outlying commercial strips are all intact, while many of those in Chicago (expect those on the North Side and parts of the West side) were decimated by urban blight.

A sampling of Toronto's outlying commercial strips:

West Queen West
https://goo.gl/maps/y942cquvgsx

Dundas West (Little Portugal)
https://goo.gl/maps/R9mb5Ms9o2C2

College
https://goo.gl/maps/DUaHRc2rdq82

Bloor West (Bloordale)
https://goo.gl/maps/S8tVEYKj6up

Roncesvalles (Little Poland)
https://goo.gl/maps/LuGLrYS6w4S2

Dundas West (The Junction)
https://goo.gl/maps/aVfcKpB9dLJ2

Ossington
https://goo.gl/maps/GHVPrBRSm5F2

King West (Parkdale)
https://goo.gl/maps/qjKzz91ptTU2

Queen East (Riverside)
https://goo.gl/maps/bdCbN7HUvCM2

Gerrard Street East (Little India)
https://goo.gl/maps/hSKhdQndKdP2

Danforth Avenue (Greektown)
https://goo.gl/maps/X5vd1tjZYJ12

Bloor West (Koreatown)
https://goo.gl/maps/2vbQ32oGdMn

Queen East (The Beach)
https://goo.gl/maps/sUuMrsZj8Ln

St. Clair Avenue West (Corso Italia)
https://goo.gl/maps/MCkcHTeJVcJ2

Oakwood Avenue (Oakwood Village)
https://goo.gl/maps/PiLPh2Va11A2

Dupont Street
https://goo.gl/maps/vpWJRZ299x42

Eglinton Avenue West (Little Jamaica, York)
https://goo.gl/maps/K1gnqKJ2xnF2

North Avenue Road
https://goo.gl/maps/a3AvD13SuS72

North Yonge Street (uptown Toronto)
https://goo.gl/maps/7iwMyiK3JEA2

Mount Pleasant Road
https://goo.gl/maps/cEFfeK7GRVu

Bayview Avenue (Leaside)
https://goo.gl/maps/M9w64K1qDcJ2

Pape Avenue (Pape Village, East York)
https://goo.gl/maps/gASqPyXuX4T2

Main Street
https://goo.gl/maps/AjuGVHEMAfn

Coxwell Avenue
https://goo.gl/maps/B3UVS9CCqcK2

Kingston Road
https://goo.gl/maps/2K34iPVT5Qo

Broadview Avenue (Chinatown East)
https://goo.gl/maps/J3MC5zvgLt42

Bloor Street West (Bloor West Village)
https://goo.gl/maps/9ifHJNAQB1F2

Lakeshore Blvd (New Toronto, Etobicoke)
https://goo.gl/maps/Zsft5C6urp72

Weston Road (Weston, York)
https://goo.gl/maps/UU7uW587zBH2

[kolchak]

Those are all beautiful neighborhoods. Nice architecture allbeit much lower density than many of Chicago's which contain more pre war mid and high rises.

I wonder what comparative maps of pre war buildings still in existence between the two cities would look like.

Also the south side lakefront still has many intact historic areas as well.

[kolchak]

High rises in Hyde Park - South Side of Chicago

[kolchak]

Urban renewal did decimate many neighborhoods but every cloud has a silver lining. Some of the handsome new buildings going up or finished in previously demolished lots -
Hyde Park -

BVictor1
QUOTE=i_am_hydrogen;7701124][/QUOTE

Originally Posted by spyguy

Slightly clearer, still another great addition to Hyde Park

QUOTE=ChickeNES;7447346]Planning Commission APPROVED



[/QUOTE]

QUOTE=spyguy;7372278]City Hyde Park looks like it is nearly done or at least occupied.

Photos from City Hyde Park FB

[IMG]./IMG]
.[/QUOTE]

[kolchak]

More Hyde Park - [/QUOTE]

[softee]

Originally Posted by kolchak

Those are all beautiful neighborhoods. Nice architecture allbeit much lower density than many of Chicago's which contain more pre war mid and high rises.

These outlying commercial strips are in pre-war neighbourhoods with comparable density to similar areas of Chicago and the commercial strips themselves tend to be more intact (less gappy) and vibrant than Chicago's neighbourhood strips. What outlying commercial strips in Chicago have pre-war hi-rises? From what I've seen, outside of the downtown and along or near to the lakefront there don't seem to be many high rises in Chicago's outlying neighbourhoods at all. Toronto actually has thousands of high-rise and mid-rise buildings all over its outlying areas.

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by softee

These outlying commercial strips are in pre-war neighbourhoods with comparable density to similar areas of Chicago and the commercial strips themselves tend to be more intact (less gappy) and vibrant than Chicago's neighbourhood strips. What outlying commercial strips in Chicago have pre-war hi-rises? From what I've seen, outside of the downtown and along or near to the lakefront there don't seem to be many high rises in Chicago's outlying neighbourhoods at all. Toronto actually has thousands of high-rise and mid-rise buildings all over its outlying areas.

Honestly its not my job to help you 'learn' Chicago. Your ridiculously folsky "From what I've seen" knowledge is awkwardly limited and it makes you look very provincial.

The basic facts have been laid out here in many posts and if you didn't read them oh well.

[koops65]

Sorry, but "From what I've seen", to me, refers to the thousands photos of Chicago that show a rather flat landscape outside the downtown core, with very few high-rises in sight. There's no need to try and bullshit us about which city has more high-rises...

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by koops65

Sorry, but "From what I've seen", to me, refers to the thousands photos of Chicago that show a rather flat landscape outside the downtown core, with very few high-rises in sight. There's no need to try and bullshit us about which city has more high-rises...

No need for profanity here.

Just because Toronto high rise density runs perpendicular to the Lake and Chicago's runs paralell also doesn't mean one can 'dismiss' anything by the lake as being 'downtown' in Chicago.

Also to say "the North Side" as if its insignificant to the rest of the city makes it sound like its a small area. 1.3 million people live on the North Side.

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by koops65

There's no need to try and bullshit us about which city has more high-rises...

Buildings over 250 meters (including CN and projects under construction) Chicago 15, Toronto 7

Buildings over 300 meters (including CN and projects under construction) Toronto 1 (CN Tower) Chicago 5

Just sayin

[koops65]

Yes, we all know Chicago has more supertalls, and more skyscrapers overall, but I said high-rises... no proposals either, just built and U/C:

Toronto - 2370
http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=76979071

Chicago - 1223
http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=76979097

Toronto has almost twice as many as Chicago.

Just saying...

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by kolchak

No need for profanity here.

Just because Toronto high rise density runs perpendicular to the Lake and Chicago's runs paralell also doesn't mean one can 'dismiss' anything by the lake as being 'downtown' in Chicago.

Also to say "the North Side" as if its insignificant to the rest of the city makes it sound like its a small area. 1.3 million people live on the North Side.

Toronto's does kind of scatter in all directions. There's a central spine, but there's a lot in other directions too.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...17157&page=223

Chicago still has the better and bigger skyline, but Toronto has a lot more secondary skylines. Which is better is a matter of personal taste. Though Toronto's does result in higher overall density.

Also I feel Toronto should compete with San Francisco, that's a city closer in scale.

[kolchak]

[QUOTE=Beedok;7782083]Toronto's does kind of scatter in all directions. There's a central spine, but there's a lot...
Toronto's does result in higher overall density.

Toronto's population density must be much higher than Chicago's, no? Especially since the far South and Southwest Sides of Chicago are so wiped out its practically rural in parts no?

What about the unit density per block? Outside of Downtown Chicago's must be very low compared to Toronto with its Nodal style high rises everywhere.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by kolchak

Toronto's population density must be much higher than Chicago's, no? Especially since the far South and Southwest Sides of Chicago are so wiped out its practically rural in parts no?

What about the unit density per block? Outside of Downtown Chicago's must be very low compared to Toronto with its Nodal style high rises everywhere.

I don't know about block by block, but for the overall urban areas see Chicago at ~1.3k/km2 to Toronto's ~2.8K/km2 (according to wikipedia). Municipality to municipality the two are almost identical, Chicago having 2.7 million in 606km2 for 4.4K/km2 to Toronto's 2.7 million in 630km2 and 4.1K/km2 (again via wikipedia).

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by koops65

There's no need to try and bullshit us about which city has more high-rises...

Well finally I never said that once in this discussion. I think I've tried to be fairly objective.

[kolchak]

Edgewater Chicago- density 13,000 per sq km. 8 miles north of Downtown. Pop 56,000. Midrise density



I'm not being facetious when I ask if there are comparable sized areas 13 km from Downtown Toronto that have the same or higher density.

I'd be curious.

[softee]

^ Yes, North York Centre is 9 miles (14 km) North of downtown on Yonge street.

[kolchak]

Thats a huge district. Impressive row of high rises. But its a large statistical area. Is it subdivided?

[koops65]

Check this thread out for "Other" skylines in Toronto besides the downtown core: http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads...kylines.21833/

Not only is North York City Centre (the pic above) booming, but there are also Yonge/Eglinton, Scarborough City Centre, Humber Bay, Mississauga, the 401/404 area, and lately Vaughan has started to go tall, with 2 50+ storey towers proposed in the last month plus plenty of other towers in the area already U/C and in prep.

Those extra 1200 high-rises scattered about the city really make a difference...