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View Poll Results: What team would be more successful in Vancouver?
Major League Baseball franchise 14 40.00%
National Basketball League franchise. 21 60.00%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2012, 12:54 AM
mrjauk mrjauk is offline
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Originally Posted by Vancity View Post
I can't ever see Bud Selig seeing Vancouver as potential place for a MLB franchise. It would never happen. If the demand for a specific baseball park only was the condition, we couldn't do it, unless it all came from private funding, without taxpayers $$...and we're talking about Vancouver here, MAYBE that'd work (hint hint, remember the 'Caps trying to build their own stadium with private funding...look what happened to that - instead we renovated a decades old stadium, with taxpayers money...our leaders in this city are really )
There wasn't an issue at the civic level; the port lands were the issue and are not under the jurisdiction of the city of Vancouver.
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  #122  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2012, 7:44 AM
phesto phesto is offline
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http://www.thestar.com/sports/basket...expansion-team

Looks like the chances of Vancouver landing an NBA franchise in the near future (ie. next 3-5 years) is next to zero irrespective of how interested Aquilini is.
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  #123  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2012, 8:12 PM
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Most NBA players are over grown children who simply will not play in a place where they do not get the recognition they think they deserve. They remind of the jocks in high school who would walk down the halls with their nose stuck up in the air. Most of these guys are more concerned with their celebrity status. They do not have the character it takes to play in a city where they are treated as equal to the rest of the population and will not give a full effort if put in such a situation. In 27 years the LA Clippers have made the play offs 4 times because the team plays in the shadow of the Lakers, who are winners year after year. The Rapters are trying to build a team using more international players, but it is not working. They are turning into Canada's version of the Clippers.

Baseball on the other hand would have a far better chance at success in Vancouver. We could easily fill our roster with local talent and with other international talent that is more plentiful in this sport. Build the right stadium in the right spot and people will show up even if the team is losing. Build a triple A stadium expandable to MLB standards and our path to MLB is set. It's not as impossible as some make it out to be.
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  #124  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2012, 6:54 AM
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Originally Posted by phesto View Post
http://www.thestar.com/sports/basket...expansion-team

Looks like the chances of Vancouver landing an NBA franchise in the near future (ie. next 3-5 years) is next to zero irrespective of how interested Aquilini is.
This is unfortunate news I hope that Stern retires soon, and whoever takes his place, has an open mind with respect to Vancouver being a potential site. Please. Stern thinks Milwaukee is a better market than Van? He's dillusional. The last several years has not been good years under Stern. Several franchises moving, and one of the best (used to be in Charlotte) now is also pathetically trying to just get by.

Maybe not in the 3-5 years. But who says 5-10 years from now? Aquilini is a great owner. Stern is foolish to turn away from him.
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  #125  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2012, 7:01 AM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Most NBA players are over grown children who simply will not play in a place where they do not get the recognition they think they deserve. They remind of the jocks in high school who would walk down the halls with their nose stuck up in the air. Most of these guys are more concerned with their celebrity status. They do not have the character it takes to play in a city where they are treated as equal to the rest of the population and will not give a full effort if put in such a situation. In 27 years the LA Clippers have made the play offs 4 times because the team plays in the shadow of the Lakers, who are winners year after year. The Rapters are trying to build a team using more international players, but it is not working. They are turning into Canada's version of the Clippers.

Baseball on the other hand would have a far better chance at success in Vancouver. We could easily fill our roster with local talent and with other international talent that is more plentiful in this sport. Build the right stadium in the right spot and people will show up even if the team is losing. Build a triple A stadium expandable to MLB standards and our path to MLB is set. It's not as impossible as some make it out to be.
I can't ever see this happening. Even with the current owners, they've done a good job, but I think triple A baseball is probably the highest this city will ever get to experience. Where do you place another stadium MLB calibre in the city?

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have pro baseball at the MLB level here in Vancouver. Hopefully, Selig takes notice of Van (don't know why he would, but here's to hoping!)
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  #126  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2012, 7:02 AM
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Originally Posted by phesto View Post
http://www.thestar.com/sports/basket...expansion-team

Looks like the chances of Vancouver landing an NBA franchise in the near future (ie. next 3-5 years) is next to zero irrespective of how interested Aquilini is.
By the way. What happens if Seattle gets another shot at the NBA? that brings their total of teams to 31. They'll need another team. What better than Vancouver?
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  #127  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2012, 9:57 AM
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Seattle won't get a team through expansion. That was never the plan.

How they plan to get two teams of any sort without starting building is the mystery. You build the stadium then hope for the teams to come. Although sometimes that fails, like in Kansas City (Sprint Center, opened 2007 and still no NBA/NHL).
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  #128  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2012, 4:06 PM
phesto phesto is offline
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The NBA is definitely not in expansion mode. If Seattle gets a team back, it will be through relocation. It looks like Sacramento has come to realize in looking at Seattle, Vancouver, etc. that once you lose an NBA franchise, it is extremely difficult to get it back.

As long as Stern is still commissioner, I think Vancouver's chance of getting an NBA team again is next to zero. I think it's partially because of his ego and partially because of past mistakes, but his current mandate is stability of the league; hence his extraordinary efforts to keep the Hornets in New Orleans.

I honestly think Vancouver could outperform some of the current NBA markets, but with Stern at the helm, it ain't gonna happen. Maybe once a new commissioner is in place, but Stern is only 70 and could be around for another 10 years or more!
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  #129  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2012, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by phesto View Post
Maybe once a new commissioner is in place, but Stern is only 70 and could be around for another 10 years or more!
In the article above, Stern says this will be his final term, which should end in six years. However, he is strongly championing his long-time deputy as the next commissioner.
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  #130  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2012, 9:50 PM
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In the article above, Stern says this will be his final term, which should end in six years. However, he is strongly championing his long-time deputy as the next commissioner.
Here's to hoping that his long-time deputy has some understanding, and humility (something stern lacks a lot of). vancouver is a great market for the NBA, and can outperform some of the current NBA markets (charlotte? milwaukee? minnesota?) if given a successful run at a franchise (please, win more than 23 games).

i'd like to see a franchise run like the old grizz in van were, and still be in the city (size of the market relative to van, of course, clippers are an exception, considering they are in LA).
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  #131  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2012, 9:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Vancity View Post
By the way. What happens if Seattle gets another shot at the NBA? that brings their total of teams to 31. They'll need another team. What better than Vancouver?
There is no plan for expansion for Seattle. There are a number of lame-duck NBA franchises that need to move. Seattle and Vancouver are only being discussed as possible destinations for those franchises.
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  #132  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2012, 5:38 AM
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There is no plan for expansion for Seattle. There are a number of lame-duck NBA franchises that need to move. Seattle and Vancouver are only being discussed as possible destinations for those franchises.
Doesn't seem like Seattle's getting Sacramento's team. Sooo...is the new arena in Seattle still moving ahead?
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  #133  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2012, 6:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Vancity View Post
Doesn't seem like Seattle's getting Sacramento's team. Sooo...is the new arena in Seattle still moving ahead?
Sacramento is building a new arena for there team in downtown and it is official. The owners are chipping in $75 million of their own to pay for it as well. The arena in Seattle has been proposed but it's not really a concrete proposal.
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  #134  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2012, 7:59 AM
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Sacramento is building a new arena for there team in downtown and it is official. The owners are chipping in $75 million of their own to pay for it as well. The arena in Seattle has been proposed but it's not really a concrete proposal.
So it doesn't look like Seattle's getting an NHL or an NBA team anytime soon. I can't see any other franchise in the NBA moving, because Stern has repeatedly said that he wants the current franchises to remain where they are.

but c'mon, Milwaukee, Charlotte (they're suffering pretty badly), New Orleans, etc?
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  #135  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2012, 4:30 AM
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I think Vancouver could support MLB. In my view, the city has the size, wealth, and culture in which MLB could thrive. 

As a visitor from Ontario, I recently attended a Vancouver Canadians game and was struck by many things about the experience, especially the fans. The Nat was sold out. The crowd was loud, nearly all stayed the entire game (which stretched well over three hours), and was diverse in age, gender, and ethnicity. They knew their baseball. This is a single A ball club we're talking here, playing out of a relatively inaccessible ballpark. An MLB team in a prominent location could build significantly on this fan base.

Baseball has a wide appeal in this city. The strong Asian population - amongst whom baseball is very popular - would give MLB in Vancouver an edge over other pro sports such as the NBA.

Don't let the Grizzlies experience scare you - the NBA is a different beast and basketball, I submit, is not nearly as popular generally as baseball. As well, the Grizzlies had to compete with the Canucks for fan dollars (since the seasons overlap almost entirely). An MLB team would run against the Lions and Whitecaps, both of which have relatively few home games compared with an MLB team, and both of which would be easier for an MLB team to compete with than the Canucks were for the Grizzlies.

MLB could work here. Don't sell the city short - Vancouver is a large, world-class city. There are smaller cities with less wealth that are able to support MLB teams.
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  #136  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2012, 4:37 PM
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I can only go by what I see in the kids' leagues in my area (Richmond). Baseball and softball have declining enrolments, have no strategy to attract new members, and have made no progress in skills development. They are losing their members mainly to the soccer and hockey associations, which have made great strides in self-promotion and in skills development in recent years, and are rapidly breaking down racial and gender boundaries.

Maybe it is different in other parts of the Lower Mainland, but what I see here is a systematic rejection of baseball by the young generation in favour of these other sports. This does not look like the kind of market that is ripe to support a professional baseball team.

Basketball is a different story. Basketball is not so much of a young kid's sport, so it's harder to judge on the same terms, but it seems to be really thriving at high school and up. Anecdotally, places like the Oval are heavily used for basketball, and new outdoor facilities are still being built for it. The "Steve Nash generation" seems to be going strong, regardless of the loss of the Grizzlies, and I get the impression that the NBA would do better here today than it did the first time around.
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  #137  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2012, 5:57 PM
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Not sure about MLB. They barely make it work in Seattle. And comparing to the Canadians I don't know. You'd be going from a 90something long season to 162 games. That's around 70 more games you have to sell. Not to mention roster prices go way up which means ticket prices need to go way up. You then look at the schedule and realize an MLB team would then be pretty much overlapping the BC Lions and Vancouver Whitecaps seasons.

So you have 3 teams now competing directly for fans vs the Canucks all by themselves. From a business standpoint I think it would make more sense to have a basketball season which in essence shares the NHL season. The Canucks are a fixture and that would leave in the hockey "off season" the Lions and Whitecaps to themselves.

Just my thoughts. To me I dislike both baseball and basketball so I don't care either way. I just think from a business standpoint MLB would be much harder to sell and succeed in Vancouver vs basketball.
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  #138  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2012, 3:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Zassk View Post
I can only go by what I see in the kids' leagues in my area (Richmond). Baseball and softball have declining enrolments, have no strategy to attract new members, and have made no progress in skills development...
One way to promote baseball is to have at least a AAA team, which would be a higher profile team than what we have now. I'm not sure if baseball or softball is part of the phys. ed program in Richmond elementary schools, but that would help.

I think baseball just isn't popular in Richmond because Metro Vancouver teams have represented Canada at the Little League World Series for the last 7 years, so we must be doing something right.

MLB doesn't overlap with hockey the way the NBA does, so MLB may be a better fit for Vancouver. Milwaukee has a metro area population that has almost 1 million less people than Vancouver and they support NBA and MLB. And Vancouver's metro population is on par with a lot of MLB cities that support 2,3, and in one case 4 big league teams.

Vancouver is an outdoorsy type city and baseball caters to that aspect of our city. Given our cities strong baseball roots, we should at least have a AAA team, and when that's a smashing success we can start considering an upgrade to MLB. A triple A team would probably be more profitable than the Lions and Whitecaps combined - it's just a matter of getting the right people to build a top notch venue.
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  #139  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2012, 1:59 PM
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We used to have a AAA team. It moved to Sacramento in 1999...
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  #140  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2012, 3:41 PM
phesto phesto is offline
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Originally Posted by jhausner View Post
Not sure about MLB. They barely make it work in Seattle. And comparing to the Canadians I don't know. You'd be going from a 90something long season to 162 games. That's around 70 more games you have to sell. Not to mention roster prices go way up which means ticket prices need to go way up. You then look at the schedule and realize an MLB team would then be pretty much overlapping the BC Lions and Vancouver Whitecaps seasons.

So you have 3 teams now competing directly for fans vs the Canucks all by themselves. From a business standpoint I think it would make more sense to have a basketball season which in essence shares the NHL season. The Canucks are a fixture and that would leave in the hockey "off season" the Lions and Whitecaps to themselves.
Agreed. I posted about this in another thread, but you'd need to make a business case for selling 2,000,000 tickets and an 81 game schedule.

Compare that to our current sports teams (from most recent season, home games not including preseason or playoffs):

Canucks - 41 games, 773,000
Lions - 9 games, 270,000
Whitecaps - 17 games, 363,000
Canadians - 24 games, 146,000
Giants - 35 games, 246,000

Even if you add playoff games to the above, you'd be proposing to double the amount of pro sports ticket sales in Vancouver; no easy feat...
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