Canada's Panamerica Identity

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by lio45

Yep.
If you want to bring up another pretty big cultural difference, to me, there's religion.

I see that difference in religion when I drive east to Abbotsford and beyond in the Fraser Valley, or south across the border to rural Washington, but Seattle/Portland/San Fran/LA don't seem any more religious than Vancouver. Filipinos, Latinos and other Catholic immigrants tend to be religious, and East Indians in Vancouver, but the average former WASP in urban areas aren't.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

I mean, if you para-dropped an alien in Vancouver, Seattle, Halifax, Boston, with his given assignment being to observe the "culture" for a while and report his observations, you really think he'd manage to identify health care as a major culture-shaping characteristic shared by the Vancouver-Halifax and Seattle-Boston duos and unshared between the two groups?

I think this reflects the bias toward superficial characteristics I was talking about earlier. Most people evaluate cultural differences on the basis of how obvious and apparent they are, but there's no reason why these differences must be considered the most important. I think the most interesting differences are the ones that have the largest impact on the way people think and behave and consequently the way they live.

The health care you get has a very big impact on your life, and the lack of public health care in the US is pretty directly related to how much people there buy into the extreme free market rhetoric that has become a key feature of US culture.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

What? Actually I noticed an accent difference in Calgary, not Seattle.

No one even knew I was Canadian in Seattle until I actually mentioned it or tried to give it away.

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Calgarians had a weird pseudo american drawl when I visited. It was like a mix of a stereotypical Canadian accent and the deep south. It was weird.

This is patently nonsense. You've shown that you don't have a good ear for these things, because on another thread on this topic you posted a video of yourself talking as proof that you sound just like Americans in Washington state, but the very video showed that you don't, but rather, that you have a standard Western Canadian accent.

Edit: found it. See posts 305 and 306 in this thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=209368.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by lio45

On the other hand, do you really think that health care is something that makes a big cultural impact?

I mean, if you para-dropped an alien in Vancouver, Seattle, Halifax, Boston, with his given assignment being to observe the "culture" for a while and report his observations, you really think he'd manage to identify health care as a major culture-shaping characteristic shared by the Vancouver-Halifax and Seattle-Boston duos and unshared between the two groups?

Originally Posted by someone123

I think this reflects the bias toward superficial characteristics I was talking about earlier. Most people evaluate cultural differences on the basis of how obvious and apparent they are, but there's no reason why these differences must be considered the most important. I think the most interesting differences are the ones that have the largest impact on the way people think and behave and consequently the way they live.

The health care you get has a very big impact on your life, and the lack of public health care in the US is pretty directly related to how much people there buy into the extreme free market rhetoric that has become a key feature of US culture.

Yes, obviously an alien that's just arrived on Earth is going to be examining very basic things that are mostly the same across the developed world. Someone would need to already be very knowledgeable about the basics before attempting to study the nuances. But someone suitably qualified would certainly be able to see the differences, whether they be human or otherwise.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by rousseau

This is patently nonsense. You've shown that you don't have a good ear for these things, because on another thread on this topic you posted a video of yourself talking as proof that you sound just like Americans in Washington state, but the very video showed that you don't, but rather, that you have a standard Western Canadian accent.

Edit: found it. See posts 305 and 306 in this thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=209368.

Here's the video

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

I grew up in Kelowna BC but now Live in Vancouver.

I think my accent is very very neutral and americanized.

• Video Link

Interesting because I wouldn't consider that a Vancouver accent/slang either. Sounds very "general Canadian." I think a west coast American would recognize it as foreign.

I grew up in Australia/New Zealand with non-Canadian parents but I've lived in Vancouver since I was 7. I've had three distinct accents.

[Boris2k7]

I've largely avoided the forum today so this is my first skim through the thread. On the cultural similarity between adjacent north-south regions... once you get past similar geography this theory quickly falls to pieces. For example, there's very little overlap between bordering states and provinces on the Prairies. We don't follow the same sports teams, the travel is one-sided (eg. a good portion of Albertans vacation in Montana but the reverse is rarely true), and the Canada side of the border is much more urban-oriented, wealthier, and more liberal.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think this reflects the bias toward superficial characteristics I was talking about earlier. Most people evaluate cultural differences on the basis of how obvious and apparent they are, but there's no reason why these differences must be considered the most important. I think the most interesting differences are the ones that have the largest impact on the way people think and behave and consequently the way they live.

Well, yeah, cultural differences that are "very apparent and very obvious" are probably going to be considered important...

If I go to, say, Japan, and look at the main cultural differences that strike me during my time I'm over there, I'm pretty sure that the specifics of their healthcare system aren't going to be anywhere near the top of the list.

I think that what we're talking about (my understanding, at least) in this thread are all the little things that make a place (and the locals) "feel foreign" or "feel like home" to someone, and I think that a very foreign place on all counts but with a Canadian-style healthcare system would feel very foreign while home with a different healthcare system would still feel mostly like home.

[Nouvellecosse]

If we're talking mainly about first impressions based largely on architecture or landscapes, then yes I would probably agree.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Yes, obviously an alien that's just arrived on Earth is going to be examining very basic things that are mostly the same across the developed world. Someone would need to already be very knowledgeable about the basics before attempting to study the nuances. But someone suitably qualified would certainly be able to see the differences, whether they be human or otherwise.

No one is saying there aren't noticeable differences. What some of us are saying is that there are also many noticeable cultural differences between various areas of the US and various areas of Canada, and in some cases, these differences can make given areas of the US and given areas of Canada feel more like each other (in terms of general feeling: how foreign or how familiar living in one feels to someone who's used to the other) than they feel like some of the most markedly different areas of their own respective countries.

I'm of the school of thought who on this matter firmly believes that for example an (unilingual Anglo) Vancouverite would feel less of a cultural shock relocating to Seattle than relocating to Iqualuit or Quebec City, even though he/she would cease to routinely have loonies and twoonies in his/her wallet and would have to get healthcare coverage from an insurer.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Here's the video



Interesting because I wouldn't consider that a Vancouver accent/slang either. Sounds very "general Canadian." I think a west coast American would recognize it as foreign.

I grew up in Australia/New Zealand with non-Canadian parents but I've lived in Vancouver since I was 7. I've had three distinct accents.

Very much a general western Canadian accent. However, the combination of vocabulary and pronunciation of certain words gives it away.
Runners are a dead give away. They are sneakers in the states. No one says runners to refer to shoes down there.
The pronunciation "Care-a-mell" isn't that unusual in the states, but "Carrmyl" is probably more common.
The only real outlier is that Soda-Pop is probably more common in the States. Most of Canada seems to call it pop, whereas it's a pretty even split in the US between pop, soda, and coke (generically to refer to all soft drinks).


I find when travelling down to Seattle, it isn't the accent that gives me up, it's the vocabulary.


I still don't think a western Canadian accent is any more similar to an accent in Ontario than it is to the accent in parts of the Pacific Northwest and Upper Midwestern States.
The vocabulary on the other hand is certainly more similar to that of Ontario.

[Mister F]

lol...anyone who thinks that Sarah Palin sounds like a typical Ontarian needs to get their hearing checked.

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I think, if we all went out for a beer, one from each state, I sure as hell wouldn't be with the TO crowd.

If that's your attitude towards "the TO crowd" then the feeling is probably mutual. Then again, "the TO crowd" feels totally fine hanging out with Newfoundlanders. We try not to get so hung up on preconceived notions.

Originally Posted by Ramako

What exactly is the connection between Canada and South America?

Well, other than the colonial histories, they're both Western societies with a lot of similar cultural norms compared no other cultures. Still, you're right that the connections to Europe are stronger. I'd say that the ties to Latin Europe are just as strong as ties to Latin America.

Originally Posted by lio45

I mean, if you para-dropped an alien in Vancouver, Seattle, Halifax, Boston, with his given assignment being to observe the "culture" for a while and report his observations, you really think he'd manage to identify health care as a major culture-shaping characteristic shared by the Vancouver-Halifax and Seattle-Boston duos and unshared between the two groups?

That depends, did the alien injure itself when it hit the ground?

You don't experience the nuances of a culture by being para-dropped somewhere to observe for a while. But if this alien spent some time with the locals then yes, it would notice how differently we think about health care.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

If we're talking mainly about first impressions based largely on architecture or landscapes, then yes I would probably agree.

As I said in the post above, my own barometer to judge this whole thing is "how foreign, or how familiar, does living in [Place A] feel to someone who's used to living in [Place B]".

Accents, architecture, etc. are only part of it. The way I personally see it, my foreignness-judging scale encompasses all aspects of life. For example, if you moved to Maine and were granted citizenship you'd have to get some insurance coverage, while if you moved to North Korea and were granted citizenship you'd find that you have an universal healthcare system over there too and you therefore wouldn't need to do this foreign-to-you thing of having to shop for coverage, but on the other hand you'd have to learn Korean and deal with a lot of things that you aren't used to. Overall I dare venture a guess that Maine would feel a lot less foreign, all aspects of life considered, to the Nova Scotian that you are.

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by Mister F

lol...anyone who thinks that Sarah Palin sounds like a typical Ontarian needs to get their hearing checked.

Didn't really mean she sounds like a typical Ontarian, I meant that the accent common in parts of (mainly rural) Ontario shares certain elements that are highly highly exaggerated in her case, namely vowel raising.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/t...alin_have.html

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by lio45

No one is saying there aren't noticeable differences. What some of us are saying is that there are also many noticeable cultural differences between various areas of the US and various areas of Canada, and in some cases, these differences can make given areas of the US and given areas of Canada feel more like each other (in terms of general feeling: how foreign or how familiar living in one feels to someone who's used to the other) than they feel like some of the most markedly different areas of their own respective countries.

I'm of the school of thought who on this matter firmly believes that for example an (unilingual Anglo) Vancouverite would feel less of a cultural shock relocating to Seattle than relocating to Iqualuit or Quebec City, even though he/she would cease to routinely have loonies and twoonies in his/her wallet and would have to get healthcare coverage from an insurer.

Just my opinion, of course.

But in case of Iqualuit we're talking about several non-cultural factors like temperature and city size too. These things can influence culture but are not actually culture themselves.

But really, if we're talking about relocating to the closest and most similar part of the US compared to the most distant and dissimilar part of Canada, then yes I agree it's possible. But even then I wouldn't say it's automatically a given. I suspect it would also depend on the exact scenario and the person involved.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by lio45

As I said in the post above, my own barometer to judge this whole thing is "how foreign, or how familiar, does living in [Place A] feel to someone who's used to living in [Place B]".

Accents, architecture, etc. are only part of it. The way I personally see it, my foreignness-judging scale encompasses all aspects of life. For example, if you moved to Maine and were granted citizenship you'd have to get some insurance coverage, while if you moved to North Korea and were granted citizenship you'd find that you have an universal healthcare system over there too and you therefore wouldn't need to do this foreign-to-you thing of having to shop for coverage, but on the other hand you'd have to learn Korean and deal with a lot of things that you aren't used to. Overall I dare venture a guess that Maine would feel a lot less foreign, all aspects of life considered, to the Nova Scotian that you are.

Yes, but i suspect Ontario would seem less foreign still. At least based on my time there.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Mister F

You don't experience the nuances of a culture by being para-dropped somewhere to observe for a while. But if this alien spent some time with the locals then yes, it would notice how differently we think about health care.

It would notice that, yes, along with a trillion other things, many of them different, many of them similar, and many of them noticed way before the health care differences.

And if you have to

Originally Posted by Mister F

experience the nuances of a culture

then it's because you're kinda saying that I'm right; if it's only nuances that we're talking about, and it's something that you need a long time to start to notice, then it means the cultures are actually quite similar.

You don't need to "experience the nuances for a long time" to begin to find noticeable cultural differences between Barcelona and Tokyo and Yakutsk and Dubai and some African village. The places are strikingly different from each other.

[YoungRepublic]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

As for vertical being more... I think you're wrong. I think, if we all went out for a beer, one from each state, I sure as hell wouldn't be with the TO crowd. I'd be with the Maritimes, and New England. And we'd be having a time. And you'd be with NYC or whoever. If this happened, you and I would be introduced via Boston/New York getting together and doing it - NOT by meeting each other face value. And the west would be with each other.

I've seen it actually happen too often to believe it's not the natural reaction.

"TO crowd?" Bajan? Iranian? Russian? Ford Nation? upper class? working class? Didn't know the "TO crowd" was a monolithic culture, scene, or whatever you're referring to.

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

Honestly, the closest thing to an Ontario accent in the States is probably around Minnesota, or maybe Alaska.
While she makes me cringe, Sarah Palin could pretty easily pass as eastern Canadian, accent-wise, whereas she'd stand out in BC as not being from here.

What? No. Not even close. What is an Ontario accent anyway?

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

And again, there is a pretty large disconnect between younger generations and older groups in Vancouver in terms of accent. On the news, a good example is any sort of RCMP interview with an officer over 30. That's the accent you'll typically find amongst older generations, whereas the ones under 25 and especially under 20 are starting to sound less and less like that. My guess is that it's due to all the exposure from American media, as well as heavy immigration.

This is true of the GTA as well. Many Canadian born Italians, West Indians, Somalis, etc., have their own accent.

Originally Posted by Ramako

What exactly is the connection between Canada and South America? We're in the same hemisphere? We're both technically part of the same landmass? I don't really see the connection.

I guess it depends on the perspective but what about the history of European colonialism? Ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide of indigenous peoples, european settlement, ignoring indigenous land rights claims and other such issues? I'd say a better example would be Australia and New Zealand though.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by rousseau

This is patently nonsense. You've shown that you don't have a good ear for these things, because on another thread on this topic you posted a video of yourself talking as proof that you sound just like Americans in Washington state, but the very video showed that you don't, but rather, that you have a standard Western Canadian accent.

Edit: found it. See posts 305 and 306 in this thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=209368.

Those in seattle failed to pick up on any noticeable differences and I DID notice a difference in Calgary.

Why do you get so defensive and attack me for my observations?

I'm sorry but I'm sticking to my guns on this.

I felt more at home in a Starbucks in Seattle than I did in Calgary.

[Bcasey25raptor]

And before you accuse me of never going to Calgary.

Look at my signature.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by YoungRepublic

"TO crowd?" Bajan? Iranian? Russian? Ford Nation? upper class? working class? Didn't know the "TO crowd" was a monolithic culture, scene, or whatever you're referring to.

You guys really don't get it do you?

TO is just as foreign to us newfies, as large portions of the US.

There's very little that is familiar outside of hockey.