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  #2141  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2015, 2:01 PM
chikid chikid is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
^Not everyone would agree that those Toronto façadomies count as preservation.

They're more like putting your dog down and then having the body stuffed. Not only do the old buildings lose whatever integrity and life they might have had, but the new buildings are condemned to wear the pelts of the old ones.
I think it looks terrible. It's almost like what's the point? The scale of the building to the facade is horrendous.
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  #2142  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2015, 3:16 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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There is always something the city can throw in to help the pro-forma.
When there is no designation, forcing it is a bad idea - but the city can make it worth it for developers.

Toronto does it well...really well (note, I have no clue how toronto does this from a policy perspective):
Wow, those look absolutely terrible.

Last edited by Tom In Chicago; Dec 21, 2015 at 5:24 PM.
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  #2143  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2015, 3:19 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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^^^ Yeah, that's exactly how not to do a facadetomy. I don't think I can find a single angle of Legacy where you can tell the facades are pasted onto the new building. Let's not forget our own "pasted on" facadectomy:


wikipedia

Though I am actually a fan of 10 S LaSalle. I don't like the pasted on look, but this is really the only example this egregious in the city and the tower portion is actually quite interesting. It's nice to have a good example of every style, even the less savory ones. Given the age in which this tower was built, it's lucky they even tried to preserve anything.

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Originally Posted by untitledreality View Post
Historic preservation is not simply about what we see. It is as much about how we interact with the fabric of the city, and the varying scales of which that takes place, as anything. The Heritage gutted and combined five prewar buildings taking up three quarters of a city block frontage, Legacy took three buildings making up half a block. Those smaller, cheaper spaces were just as beneficial to the human scale of Wabash as the hand laid facades. Now they are just stage sets masking big box retailers and parking garages.
While I don't totally disagree, especially about the Heritage which suffers from high vacancy, maybe what you are observing is a shift in how we use our built environment, not a violation of some sort of hard and fast rule of urban planning. Think about it, many of the smaller buildings along this stretch of Wabash have high vacancy to begin with. That's probably because there isn't all that much demand for rickety 4th floor 2,500 SF Class D office spaces. Today's tenants generally want larger spaces with modern interiors and amenities such as elevators. Sure someone would take the old small spaces, but the use would be far below "highest and best". Maybe that's a good thing and you have artists setting up shop adding a lot of intangible value, but maybe it's not a great thing and you have a PC repair shop that hasn't been cleaned out since 1998 which is adding really no value at all. Of course the irony is that old school Chicago cultural institutions like the University Club of Chicago and School of the Art Institute came to occupy the "big box" spaces you decry in the Legacy.

Buildings must be periodically updated and the size of building gutted by Legacy and Heritage was a particularly difficult range to re-purpose. Giant condo towers are the new highest and best use in the area and I think they relatively successfully integrate without disrupting much of the street level feel. So while I'd love to have Chicago be a museum where nothing old is ever destroyed, the trade off with the Legacy facadectomy in particular falls squarely in the "win" column in my mind.
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  #2144  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2015, 3:42 PM
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I think a building or two like the Hearst Tower in NYC could work in Chicago.

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Last edited by Tom In Chicago; Dec 21, 2015 at 5:25 PM.
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  #2145  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2015, 4:10 PM
VKChaz VKChaz is offline
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Originally Posted by untitledreality View Post
The Heritage gutted and combined five prewar buildings taking up three quarters of a city block frontage, Legacy took three buildings making up half a block. Those smaller, cheaper spaces were just as beneficial to the human scale of Wabash as the hand laid facades. Now they are just stage sets masking big box retailers and parking garages.
I would have to take another look but I don't recall the street experience being significantly degraded. IIRC, it was certainly better than the podiums and blank walls that dominate today.
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  #2146  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2015, 5:26 PM
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MODERATOR NOTE - Please stop posting photos of buildings from other cities in this thread. . . they will be removed. . . thanks in advance. . .

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  #2147  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2015, 5:43 PM
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New rendering for Gonnella development

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  #2148  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2015, 6:08 PM
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^That peach/orang/red brick duo is heinous and will be dated the moment construction is complete. I see it used a lot on 3-6 story buildings... not so much on highrises.
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  #2149  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2015, 7:24 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
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Originally Posted by Arm&Kedzie View Post
^That peach/orang/red brick duo is heinous and will be dated the moment construction is complete. I see it used a lot on 3-6 story buildings... not so much on highrises.
Yeah, the glass part looks pretty good, though. I assume those are the city views. It looks like there's a big plaza at one corner. I can't figure out why or where? Is it on the interior away from Chicago Ave?
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  #2150  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2015, 7:47 PM
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Yeah, the glass part looks pretty good, though. I assume those are the city views. It looks like there's a big plaza at one corner. I can't figure out why or where? Is it on the interior away from Chicago Ave?
If I am not mistaken, that plaza is where the electrical supply store is. I think it is staying.
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  #2151  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2015, 7:54 PM
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appears to have no retail or restaurant at base?
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  #2152  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2015, 9:10 PM
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171 North Halsted Now Topped Out

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Chicago's latest apartment tower is now topped out and will begin welcoming residents next summer. Developed by Atlantic Realty Partners, Shapack Partners and Focus Development, 171 North Halsted now stands 29 storeys above the street.
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  #2153  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2015, 6:20 PM
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If I am not mistaken, that plaza is where the electrical supply store is. I think it is staying.
Yes, Efengee Electrical is not part of the project.

There will be a large plaza in the middle of the complex, basically a westward extension of Superior St through to Carpenter with a car dropoff. Most of it is pedestrian space though, which should be nice.

There is a very large retail space facing Chicago, possibly big enough for a grocer or definitely a pharmacy (here's hoping CVS moves into the new space!). There's another smaller retail space facing Milwaukee and a sidewalk expansion on Milwaukee.

Style aside, this project is pretty ideal as a large-scale TOD.
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  #2154  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2015, 7:34 PM
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^ In addition, this project, and the BKL designed TOD apartments at 830 Milwaukee, are pioneers for the Chicago/Milwaukee intersection. With more TOD projects and the renovation of the Blue Line station, then maybe the intersection can be as active as it was 100 years ago.


Source: http://spuscizna.org/bieniasz/chicago-page4.html
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  #2155  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2015, 8:01 PM
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What happened to that beautiful building?
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  #2156  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2015, 8:27 PM
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  #2157  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2015, 10:19 PM
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^ I think this was where the Dunkin Donuts is now (a small office building called Ogden Point).

Sorry, this building (Milwaukee Avenue State Bank) actually stood at Milwaukee/Carpenter a block to the south. Ironically there is a US Bank now on the same site.
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Last edited by ardecila; Dec 22, 2015 at 10:34 PM.
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  #2158  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2015, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Randomguy34 View Post
^ In addition, this project, and the BKL designed TOD apartments at 830 Milwaukee, are pioneers for the Chicago/Milwaukee intersection. With more TOD projects and the renovation of the Blue Line station, then maybe the intersection can be as active as it was 100 years ago.


Source: http://spuscizna.org/bieniasz/chicago-page4.html
My dream for that intersection would be to shift the part of Ogden south of there west a bit to line up with the Chicago/Milwauke/May intersection, and remove the part of Ogden north of Milwaukee.

So there'd be one well defined intersection, instead of the weird triple intersection with a subway entrance on an island in the middle that we have now. And all of the space wasted on the section of Ogden that dead ends at the river can be reclaimed and developed, with the narrower and grid aligned Carpenter connecting to the existing underpass to the north.

It'd be a shame to lose the little retail building with Subway and D'Augustino's, but fixing that intersection would be worth it (and maybe the building could be moved or it's facade salvaged)...
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  #2159  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2015, 11:08 PM
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By By Ed's

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  #2160  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2015, 11:17 PM
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Ho Jo Tower

Dec 14



Dec 8


one of the stoic holdouts (across the street)


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