Ontario's small cities stuck in time

[miketoronto]

I just got back from a dinner and walk in Guelph. And as always happens when I visit Ontario's smaller cities, I find the cities do not represent their size well and seem stuck in the 1800's in terms of their downtowns.

I really did not feel I was in a city of over 100,000 people. And this does not just happen in Guelph. It get this sense of cities stuck in time from Windsor to Kingston.

It really would be nice to see the downtowns of these cities represent the actual size that these cities are.

Two similar sized cities. Look how small town Guelph looks compared to it's cousin.

New Haven, USA

Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nh..._eastshore.jpg



City of Guelph
http://guelph.ca/uploads/images/photos

[flar]

Guelph and Kingston both have great downtowns. Just about right for cities of 100-150K.

[CCF]

Really?

In the limited time I've spent in Guelph, I have been quite impressed. It's miles above KW in my opinion. Considering Waterloo is Canada's most intelligent community, in my opinion that intelligence has failed to translate to planning practices.

I spent two days in Windsor in April (my first time) and again I was impressed with the City. Windsor takes so much flack from the rest of Canada I suppose my expectations were pretty low, however.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Metro population of New Haven, CT is 571,000 and New Haven is the principal city in the region. Guelph is about 1/4 this size and is certainly not the principal city in the region. You really have to consider the metro area, not just the proper city. Most Americans comment that Canadian city skylines are much larger than theirs.

[xzmattzx]

Perhaps any discrepancy is in the definition of the municipality. I don't know about Guelph, but I know that all around Ontario amalgamation has lead to towns now including surrounding rural areas in massive increases of growth, or even resulting in effective city-counties like Hamilton and Toronto. This could inflate population numbers in Ontario.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Metro population of New Haven, CT is 571,000 and New Haven is the principal city in the region.

Yeah, exactly. This thread is a waste of time.

New Haven doesn't hold a candle to the likes of Hamilton, London, and Ottawa. It's transit system is pathetic too.

[miketoronto]

I still like Guelph. But to be honest, after about 20 minutes going in and out of a couple stores downtown, there was not much else to do downtown, besides eat at one of the nice restaurants.

Everything just seemed really quiet for a city of over 100,000.
It was not helped by looking at a book in a bookstore that had historic photos of Guelph, Kitchener, and other cities of the area during the 50-60s. Talk about packed with people, action, and looking their size. They looked so exciting with so much things going on.

I just feel cities like Guelph really need to grow up and stop trying to be these historic towns of the 1800's that never change.

Keep the history yes. But also grow the centre a little. It just feels too small.

[Blitz]

Kitchener, Waterloo, Cambridge, and Guelph are all impacted by the GTA and that's bloated the population of those cities. Of course they're not 'suburbs' but a fair amount of people there commute to Mississauga/GTA.

I'd say these cities' downtowns feel smaller than they should based on population - especially Kitchener. SW Ontario cities outside the influence of the GTA (London, Windsor) have downtowns more appropriate to their population.

In general though, I think downtowns in Canadian cities feel bigger than respective-sized American cities.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

I still like Guelph. But to be honest, after about 20 minutes going in and out of a couple stores downtown, there was not much else to do downtown, besides eat at one of the nice restaurants.

Everything just seemed really quiet for a city of over 100,000.
It was not helped by looking at a book in a bookstore that had historic photos of Guelph, Kitchener, and other cities of the area during the 50-60s. Talk about packed with people, action, and looking their size. They looked so exciting with so much things going on.

I just feel cities like Guelph really need to grow up and stop trying to be these historic towns of the 1800's that never change.

Keep the history yes. But also grow the centre a little. It just feels too small.

Despite being located in the shadow of larger urban area, Guelph's downtown seems average for an urban area with a population of 120k, if not above average. It's a lot better than Brantford's downtown, for example.

[ForestryW]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

I still like Guelph. But to be honest, after about 20 minutes going in and out of a couple stores downtown, there was not much else to do downtown, besides eat at one of the nice restaurants.

Everything just seemed really quiet for a city of over 100,000.
It was not helped by looking at a book in a bookstore that had historic photos of Guelph, Kitchener, and other cities of the area during the 50-60s. Talk about packed with people, action, and looking their size. They looked so exciting with so much things going on.

I just feel cities like Guelph really need to grow up and stop trying to be these historic towns of the 1800's that never change.

Keep the history yes. But also grow the centre a little. It just feels too small.

Hmm....a few things.

1) I suppose it depends what you're looking for in a downtown. There are probably as many people who like the quiet, old-fashioned atmosphere in Guelph as there are people who are looking for something more exciting.

2) I have to agree, though, that the "big city with a small town attitude" idea is pervasive in Ontario, even in cities as big as London and DEFINITELY in KW.

3) Guelph, KW and Cambridge are all very well planned cities. They are efficient, functional and the quality of life is high. Unfortunately what is lacking is a certain authenticity. I can see the difference clearly whenever I go to London, which is an extremely dysfunctional city when it comes to planning, efficiency and functionality (esp. transportation planning). But something about "culture" in London seems so much more authentic unlike the pseudo-culture that's so prevalent in KWC and Guelph.

4) Check out Peterborough. There's a small city with a "big city" downtown. There never seems to be a shortage of culture and things to see.

[MolsonExport]

Apples and oranges once again. Essay grade: 36%.
How about I take a go at cherrypicking?

Compare Guelph to say, Flint. Both similar size. Compare the downtowns. The transit. Anything you like. Who wins?

[ForestryW]

Well people are different and appreciate urban cores in different ways. Enough said.

[north 42]

Windsor and London have decent sized downtowns for their populations.
Both cities really don't get enough respect or attention throughout Canada unfortunatly.

[Blitz]

But something about "culture" in London seems so much more authentic unlike the pseudo-culture that's so prevalent in KWC and Guelph.

Guelph and Kitchener are not regional centres like London. Guelph seems to be morphing into a pseudo bedroom community of the GTA. London benefits mainly from its location and yes it's not hard to beat London when it comes to transportation planning.

[vid]

Guelph is a college town. Like Thunder Bay, once the students leave, the whole place gets eerily quiet.

[Symz]

Come to Windsor!!! You'd swear we're almost travelling back in time!

[north 42]

Originally Posted by Symz

Come to Windsor!!! You'd swear we're almost travelling back in time!

Really? I think Windsor has improved in so many ways in the last few years. Our mayor has done wonders to modernize the city, and the next few years will see major growth in the economy and downtown developement.
Windsor has never been in a better position to grow and diversify.

[Blitz]

Windsor is expected to have the fastest economic growth of any other city in the country this year. That's always how it's been though - we're the first to experience a recession and the first to really break out of it.

It's already come a long way since July 2009 when the unemployment rate was 15% and everyone was afraid we'd become the next Flint. There's still a way to go but the turnaround so far has been beyond what anyone expected.

[Symz]

Originally Posted by north 42

Really? I think Windsor has improved in so many ways in the last few years. Our mayor has done wonders to modernize the city, and the next few years will see major growth in the economy and downtown developement.
Windsor has never been in a better position to grow and diversify.

We are teetering on the edge of recovery. Downtown is still in rough shape. Hopefully the University moving downtown to the Armouries and the old bus station will help, but we'll have to wait and see. That still leaves alot of vacancies downtown and an empty Capital Theatre building. There is also, still a big gaping hole on Ouellette from that fire as well.

Don't get me wrong I like Eddie Francis and I can see that he's trying, but it's been slow. The local media hypes up stories, but you can go out and see for yourself we're not even close to there yet.

If the bridge deal goes through I think that's going to be a big boon to the Windsor area, but as it stands Ontario is still building a road to nowhere at the moment.

There is also the risk that in October when elections hit and if the conservatives knock out the liberals, what they will do with the Ontario energy plan and the FIT program, as they've said they want to make drastic changes or kill the program, poof there goes Windsor's blooming green sector.

I'm just saying that I think we're almost about to turn a corner, but we're going to do it probably slower than the media is saying and not turn as much if a few certain other things don't fall into place.

[north 42]

I live right downtown in a condo, and downtown has really improved in just the last 2 years, trendy upscale eateries have popped up, as well as other various shops. The new streetscaping has done wonders, and the parks have never looked better.
I agree we still have a long way to go, but the progress we,ve made in just a few short years during one of the worst recessions is pretty impressive.