First nations of Canada

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You hear that kind of thing in Quebec too sometimes. We're truly a mixed bag of opinions, ranging from hostility of that sort, to strong support. Everything here is compounded by the fact that anywhere between 40 to 60% of the population has aboriginal blood. So lots of people who don't have their "cards" (as we say) aren't particularly different genetically or culturally from those who have them. This is especially true in rural areas.

In Ontario OTOH people in my experience are overwhelmingly supportive of aboriginal rights, even if no one seems to be motivated to do anything concrete about it beyond lip service.

I think there are clearly a problem of people trying to fit everyone into a one size fits all box.

They are the true "founders" culture of canada, they are a racial group, and underclass, a citizens group of much of the more remote areas of the country, they are part of the genetic heritage of a huge proportion of canada(although this is often denied/ignored).

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by vid

Having status is a bit different than actually being native, since it's based on blood quantum and requires paperwork.

Only about half of Canada First Nations people actually have Indian Status.

Getting status can be very difficult for some people. My partner is Potawatomi with a 3/4 blood quantum (his paternal grandfather is white). However, based on the historic rule that women forfeit status for their descendants when marrying a white man, he and his father have never had status. There was a court ruling almost a decade ago that threw out this rule and re-instated status to these people but his grandmother died before she could have her status re-instated and the whole thing has since been tied up in endless circles of federal bureaucracy. They want a very specific set of paperwork to prove it. Even with DNA testing--with which he was able to prove 72% indigenous ancestry with a high amount of consanguinity to people on his grandmother's reserve--the federal government didn't accept it.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You hear that kind of thing in Quebec too sometimes. We're truly a mixed bag of opinions, ranging from hostility of that sort, to strong support. Everything here is compounded by the fact that anywhere between 40 to 60% of the population has aboriginal blood. So lots of people who don't have their "cards" (as we say) aren't particularly different genetically or culturally from those who have them. This is especially true in rural areas.

It should be noted that from an indigenous perspective, this fact is considered irrelevant. Tribes always considered their membership based on spiritual and cultural affinity rather than genetics. In the pre-Columbian days there were plenty of children adopted into other tribes, migrants who moved from one tribe to another, etc. and they were readily accepted as full equals in their new tribe once they integrated into the culture. Being part of the nation had nothing to do with your parentage. Many indigenous people find the blood quantum rules particularly offensive for this reason.

So applying that lens today, a Quebecois who is genetically half-Algonquin wouldn't be considered equivalent to an on-reserve Algonquin who is genetically half-white.

[ue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So, this is an honest question, but do aboriginal issues actually occasionally come up during water cooler talk or at dinner parties in Western Canada?

I think Boris and hipster duck sufficiently explained the difference in both the Prairies and BC, respectively. To add to what they've said, some things that I've noticed in just the past few years here in Edmonton

1 - greater recognition that we are on Treaty 6 land, that we have taken reserve land from indigenous (as in Mill Woods), and so forth. This is especially prevalent in cultural, political, and academic spheres.

2 - in the education system, there is increasing incorporation of indigenous culture and history into curriculae and I've seen post-secondary courses require indigenous material

3 - increased interest in renaming sites in Edmonton to indigenous names as a way to "decolonize"; generally done in a less invasive dual way where the English name is kept alongside the indigenous one, but also done with outright renaming

In the 3rd point, I'll link you to two recent examples, one featuring the dual way, the other the outright renaming and you can look at the response to both.

Beaver Hills House Park in Downtown Edmonton given a minor update with new public art and bilingual name

http://edmontonjournal.com/entertain...lls-house-park

Public art in particular has been a significant vessel towards shining the light on indigenous culture in Edmonton. I won't say we embrace it like Vancouverites embrace Salish symbols, but due to our heightened awareness (large indigenous population) we are coming around to it.

Outright renaming of part of 23 Ave -- http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ment-1.3446162

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It should be noted that from an indigenous perspective, this fact is considered irrelevant. Tribes always considered their membership based on spiritual and cultural affinity rather than genetics. In the pre-Columbian days there were plenty of children adopted into other tribes, migrants who moved from one tribe to another, etc. and they were readily accepted as full equals in their new tribe once they integrated into the culture. Being part of the nation had nothing to do with your parentage. Many indigenous people find the blood quantum rules particularly offensive for this reason.

So applying that lens today, a Quebecois who is genetically half-Algonquin wouldn't be considered equivalent to an on-reserve Algonquin who is genetically half-white.

Oh, I totally agree with that sentiment BTW.

From a francophone Canadian perspective, I don't consider someone named Gordon Tremblay from Sault Ste Marie who doesn't speak a word of French and knows nothing of our culture to be one of "us" (according to this criteria anyway). Whereas my fully integrated West African neighbours fit the bill perfectly.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by ue

Public art in particular has been a significant vessel towards shining the light on indigenous culture in Edmonton. I won't say we embrace it like Vancouverites embrace Salish symbols, but due to our heightened awareness (large indigenous population) we are coming around to it.

To my eyes, this is probably one of the biggest differences - west of Northern Ontario, native symbols are certainly showcased more often and less formal. By that I mean in Toronto and Mtrl and especially Ottawa, you will see prominent native symbols in gov't art, etc. What you see more in the west is subtle native symbols (like UE's example), urban fabric (main road names in Calgary), graffiti, etc.

Another thing I have noticed is that people out west appear to showcase native art more in their homes that what I seen in the east. Now I may be biased by the people I hang out with on that one (plus I have lots of native art myself, so I definitely am biased).

Overall my opinion is that people are more aware of native culture in the west just because it is more visible. People east of Northern Ontario (and south of Val d'Or) appear to have less exposure and thus a different set of opinions.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It should be noted that from an indigenous perspective, this fact is considered irrelevant. Tribes always considered their membership based on spiritual and cultural affinity rather than genetics. In the pre-Columbian days there were plenty of children adopted into other tribes, migrants who moved from one tribe to another, etc. and they were readily accepted as full equals in their new tribe once they integrated into the culture. Being part of the nation had nothing to do with your parentage. Many indigenous people find the blood quantum rules particularly offensive for this reason.

So applying that lens today, a Quebecois who is genetically half-Algonquin wouldn't be considered equivalent to an on-reserve Algonquin who is genetically half-white.

Interesting perspective, in newfoundland the selection process for status was based on a list of points.

Big on the list was self reported connection to "aboriginal" communities.

Which was a long list of activities that would give you points.

I.e. Do you pick berries, have camp fires, fish, etc with people from these communities.

I think a lot of people who were rejected didn't bother to take this portion seriously.

It would seem to explain why people who were direct blood relatives were not both given status.

For example my brother is one of 1000 out of province given status.

And I honestly believe he got most of his points from working musical festivals back home.

I donno it's a far out situation.

To me getting official status is more or less like getting a nerd badge in culture.

I was already interested in the topic, but now all of a sudden I have a rather legitimate reason to get more into a subject.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by vid

Having status is a bit different than actually being native, since it's based on blood quantum and requires paperwork.

Only about half of Canada First Nations people actually have Indian Status.

When did they get rid of the rule or law that if a white man married a first nations woman, their kids were denied status, but if a first nations man married a white woman their kids were given status.

Is it really that hard to get?

[vid]

Quick note about this post: I use "indian", "native" and "aboriginal" interchangeably (in writing and speech) and it is not typically on purpose. In each case, I mean someone who is or who identifies as any of those terms or as First Nation.

Originally Posted by Boris2k7

Yeah... not so much in the west. Seeing people from nearby nations sleeping on the street or begging for "bus money" is unfortunately all too common in Calgary, Edmonton, and I assume other prairie cities. This is largely due to proximity... there's two large reserves within a half hour drive of Calgary and another is adjacent to the city (to the point that the city is beginning to grow around the reserve).

It isn't that reserves are near the city, it's that there are many more native people per capita in Western Canada than there are in southern and eastern Canada, and the principle cities from Timmins west to Prince George are service centres for the remote First Nations in this part of the country, so these are the cities they go to when they leave their reserves.

Thunder Bay's airport has over 700,000 passengers every year—the fifth busiest in Ontario. A significant percentage of those are made up of the 50,000 native people of Ontario's far north flying in and out of the city for various reasons. We have regular flights to nearly 65 reserves. The reserve beside the city has a population of 900.

Brantford is nearly surrounded by a reserve of 12,000 but has few native people, because that city isn't a service centre for a region containing over 50,000 native people.

Originally Posted by Acajack

So, this is an honest question, but do aboriginal issues actually occasionally come up during water cooler talk or at dinner parties in Western Canada?

It comes up a lot at my work because we get exposed to native issues more often (we're in a heavily aboriginal neighbourhood and we sell products to many aboriginal organizations and to northern reserves on a near-daily basis). For some people, it never comes up, or they don't like to talk about it, but everyone is aware of it.

The city has incorporated a lot of indigenous culture into its policies, we have aboriginal liaisons for nearly every department, important ceremonies are lead with native prayers and smudging, we're about to merge our economic development corporation with that of a neighbouring reserve to take better advantage of possible opportunities. Good or bad, it's an issue that does come up quite often, and I think that makes people a little bit more comfortable to touch on it at dinner parties.

But then the few dinner parties I've been to have involved people working in the public and not-for-profit sector, so we're all a lot more culturally aware and understanding of the issues. And most of us are at least part native. The presence of an Anishnawbe kwe tempers their rhetoric.

At my work we have a lot of middle class suburban white customers and they tend to bring it up randomly and make hateful comments about native people, completely unaware of how much we interact with native people on a regular basis. They also say a lot of terrible things about Kathleen Wynne as I mentioned in the gas prices discussion.

Originally Posted by hipster duck

FN issues wouldn't come up in casual conversation with non-FN strangers because it's a third rail topic. But that's very different from saying that it's something people are oblivious to.

People in Thunder Bay like to randomly touch the third rail.

Originally Posted by niwell

Of course when talking about Ontario things are a bit different in the North. Much more varied from my experiences - but definitely heard some interesting... comments on the matter when doing public consultations in small communities. The consultations had absolutely nothing to do with matters related to First Nations so that got a bit awkward.

As I said, they love touching that third rail. We have a neighbourhood that rallied against a youth centre that would have been run by a partnership between the city and a native organization, with the excuse of "we're not racist, we just don't want all the noise and cars!", only to stand by silently as an out-of-towner turned it into a Wackys, which is a sports bar/arcade chain that specializes in chicken wings. The abhorred parking and noise issues exist, but they don't complain about them for some reason.

Like, they don't bring them up at all.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Much of Northern Ontario is kind of like the Prairies now regarding aboriginal and non-aboriginal relations.

I wonder if things would have been different 20 or 30 years ago, and the issue would have been less in people's faces.

My grandmother, an Ojibwe woman, tells of going to Toronto back in the 1970s, and experiencing real racism for the first time there. In Thunder Bay, relationships between white men and native women were common (the inverse, not as much as today), so her marriage with my grandfather was fairly normal by our standards. But in Toronto, that was the first time in her life that she was refused service because of the colour of her skin. Where she was given dirty looks for walking with a white child. It wasn't nasty racism, but it was shocking to her because it didn't really happen here.

Even today, while people generally look down on native people in general, they often overlook them on an individual basis if they know them. I have actual white supremacists in my family who have native "friends", with the excuse "that one's ok, it's the rest I don't like."

Originally Posted by Acajack

Just thinking of where my wife is from, there has been a noticeable difference in the 25 years I've been going to her hometown. When I first went there, there weren't really many more aboriginal people visible than in the Ottawa or Montreal areas. I was actually surprised at how few there were. But since then there has been a lot of migration out of isolated communities towards cities in Northern Ontario. Her hometown is probably 10% aboriginal now. Maybe 15% of the people out and about in town when you count people there temporarily for various services and other requirements, or simply shopping, etc.

I live here, and I've always lived around native people so it's just been normal for me, but statistically this does appear true. The native population is growing at a faster rate. Immigration and a high native birth rate are this region's only source of population growth.

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It should be noted that from an indigenous perspective, this fact is considered irrelevant. Tribes always considered their membership based on spiritual and cultural affinity rather than genetics. In the pre-Columbian days there were plenty of children adopted into other tribes, migrants who moved from one tribe to another, etc. and they were readily accepted as full equals in their new tribe once they integrated into the culture. Being part of the nation had nothing to do with your parentage. Many indigenous people find the blood quantum rules particularly offensive for this reason.

So applying that lens today, a Quebecois who is genetically half-Algonquin wouldn't be considered equivalent to an on-reserve Algonquin who is genetically half-white.

And by the same criteria, a fully native person isn't considered as much of an Indian as a half white Indian living on a northern reserve his whole life. There is also a conflict among urban aboriginals between traditionalists (who embrace traditional native teachings) and non-traditionalists, who are just "normal" (or, "assimilated"). But most urban Aboriginals fall in between the two, living "normal" lives while also participating in various aspects of indigenous culture, as many white people do, since aboriginal traditions like prayers, drumming, offerings of tobacco and smudging are being incorporated into local culture. The walk for a woman who was assaulted in my neighbourhood last week featured all of these, and many of the people who turned out to walk were white and they participated to some degree.

Originally Posted by shreddog

Another thing I have noticed is that people out west appear to showcase native art more in their homes that what I seen in the east. Now I may be biased by the people I hang out with on that one (plus I have lots of native art myself, so I definitely am biased).

Thunder Bay's hospital is full of native art and syllabics. So are government buildings, shelters, and community centres. To the point that I've become so accustomed to seeing native art in hospitals and community centres that when I was in Hamilton in November while my mom was having cancer treatment, the lack of native art was conspicuous to me. I'd gotten so used to seeing Woodlands paintings while waiting for her to get out of examination rooms that I didn't realize that woodlands painting isn't part of the cancer treatment process for most people.

It reinforced that I wasn't at home. And that's why our hospital has those paintings: It serves a large native population, and helping them feel at home helps them recover. Out hospital even serves traditional native food to native patients to assist their recovery.

Originally Posted by Stryker

To me getting official status is more or less like getting a nerd badge in culture.

I was already interested in the topic, but now all of a sudden I have a rather legitimate reason to get more into a subject.

But from the perspective of a non-status partially-native person: why should it take an "official nerd badge" to get you interested in the culture of the people who originally inhabited the land you're living on?

And don't get mad: this is one of those questions we ask at the water cooler.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

When did they get rid of the rule or law that if a white man married a first nations woman, their kids were denied status, but if a first nations man married a white woman their kids were given status.

Is it really that hard to get?

It was struck down in the 1990s. By then, my great grandmother had died, but my family had enough documentation that my grandmother and her children could all get their status. I am one generation too far removed to get Indian Status, but I am eligible for Metis Status. It involves a lot of paperwork, and can take several years. It's difficult to get status because it does come with various benefits, like additional healthcare for seniors and possibly funding from the reserve you're registered to for things like education and housing, and the government doesn't really want to pay for those things.

The impression is that people are using it just for sales tax exemptions, but most people I know who got status later in life are using it to access additional health insurance benefits like vision, dental and prescription coverage after the age of 65, as it provides more than OAS or OHIP.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

When did they get rid of the rule or law that if a white man married a first nations woman, their kids were denied status, but if a first nations man married a white woman their kids were given status.

Is it really that hard to get?

My understanding is that every group makes up their own rules.

Although I think this is more so true in the united states.

[SpongeG]

I have mine, I just applied for it and got it, no questions, tests, filled out a form and they gave me a card. I do have a registry number though, perhaps thats why.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Indigenous issues are constantly being discussed here. Edmonton recently surpassed Winnipeg as the city with the largest indigenous population in the country.

That would also make Edmonton the city with the largest Aboriginal population in all of North America

[vid]

Originally Posted by ue

Beaver Hills House Park in Downtown Edmonton given a minor update with new public art and bilingual name

http://edmontonjournal.com/entertain...lls-house-park

I hate when they use the wrong Latin letter in place of syllabics. That C with a dot on top should by a U turned 90° clockwise.

ᑕ not C. The ends don't curl in. There is a sign for an organization called Matawa in my city, and they put LC•*clipart of a triangle* instead of ᒪᑕᐗ. It's not like it's hard to make the correct symbols, there are free fonts and Wikipedia has a chart.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I have mine, I just applied for it and got it, no questions, tests, filled out a form and they gave me a card. I do have a registry number though, perhaps thats why.

BC is probably different then. In this part of Canada, it's a fairly lengthy process. Not extremely complicated, but very slow moving.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by vid

[SIZE="1"]Thunder Bay's hospital is full of native art and syllabics. So are government buildings, shelters, and community centres. To the point that I've become so accustomed to seeing native art in hospitals and community centres that when I was in Hamilton in November while my mom was having cancer treatment, the lack of native art was conspicuous to me. I'd gotten so used to seeing Woodlands paintings while waiting for her to get out of examination rooms that I didn't realize that woodlands painting isn't part of the cancer treatment process for most people.

IMHO, T Bay is in the west

BTW, I'm glad you popped in as you bring such a great perspective to this conversation.

[vid]

Originally Posted by shreddog

IMHO, T Bay is in the west

BTW, I'm glad you popped in as you bring such a great perspective to this conversation.

People from the west say we're in the east. Corporations say we're in the west because they service us from Winnipeg. Our tourism board says we're in the North because it sells but we're further south than Vancouver. People from the far north think of us as south. We're in the middle of the continent but far away from everything. It's a very strange location. We're the Istanbul of Canada. The Gibraltar of the Canadian West.

And thank you.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by shreddog

IMHO, T Bay is in the west

I'd agree with that, I would personally choose to place the east/west changeover point in the most empty area of NWO (which is also the one true "void" that you'll encounter driving coast to coast). Just common sense IMO...

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by vid

My grandmother, an Ojibwe woman, tells of going to Toronto back in the 1970s, and experiencing real racism for the first time there. In Thunder Bay, relationships between white men and native women were common (the inverse, not as much as today), so her marriage with my grandfather was fairly normal by our standards. But in Toronto, that was the first time in her life that she was refused service because of the colour of her skin. Where she was given dirty looks for walking with a white child. It wasn't nasty racism, but it was shocking to her because it didn't really happen here.

In toronto the part that I thought was mostly racist was just the total lack of sympathy for natives beyond the idea they were just victims of racism.

White people took their land, end of story.

I.e. There's no reason they shouldn't be exactly like non white immigrants.

Originally Posted by vid

But from the perspective of a non-status partially-native person: why should it take an "official nerd badge" to get you interested in the culture of the people who originally inhabited the land you're living on?

And don't get mad: this is one of those questions we ask at the water cooler.

I don't wear anything about myself and being native on my sleeve. At best it's sensitivity for the members of my family.(my grandmother married, pure whites, most of her siblings married within).

Although be clear I'd never say they are indians, JackieTar( as in metis) is pretty much the only word I'd ever use with any degree of belief.

For me its just the idea that society has officially chosen me to be standard holder.

It'd be no different to me if my grandfather left me his collections of deeds that transferred down from the families first arrival from ireland.

It's more or less a symbolic/sentimental gesture, but it is one I respect.

I had an interest before, it just seems like it's now a priority over other concerns. Although I still identify as completely white.

Honestly my biggest reason for feeling connected to natives is the fact I'm autistic. The idea of being connected to the land, and disjointed from society is something that I think many people on the autism spectrum relate to.

When I say this I don't mean in a spiritual sense, I mean in a I find it incredibly hard to really feel my eggs are in the same basket as the mainstream and notice myself looking to physical space around me as my emotional connection.

EDIT: be clear I don't mean this as a generic outsider, something a little more specific.

[GlassCity]

In my own experience, First Nations relations are something that is both very explicit but hidden at the same time. What I mean is that the media often covers their general plight in one specific story or another, many meetings and conferences are started by "acknowledging that they are taking place on unceded Musqueam and Coast Salish territory" (which is said so passively that it's become as generic as "hi how are you"), and other things of that nature. In Metro Vancouver at least, we have reserves in the actual urban regions, so you often pass by them in travel. In fact, I live very near to one and often bike through it.

However, outside of these instances of common rhetoric and seeing their signs along a road, First Nations aren't really much of a factor in day-to-day life. I very rarely see "visible" Natives around. People don't really talk about them much, aside from the generic social program gripes, but even those are few and far in between. The Prairie stereotype of Natives as criminals doesn't really exist here either. Our biggest street gangs are mostly white, south and east Asian.

So it's quite strange really. First Nations and the issues surrounding them are something you often here about here, but very rarely ever actually experience first-hand.

[ue]

Originally Posted by vid

I hate when they use the wrong Latin letter in place of syllabics. That C with a dot on top should by a U turned 90° clockwise.

ᑕ not C. The ends don't curl in. There is a sign for an organization called Matawa in my city, and they put LC•*clipart of a triangle* instead of ᒪᑕᐗ. It's not like it's hard to make the correct symbols, there are free fonts and Wikipedia has a chart.



BC is probably different then. In this part of Canada, it's a fairly lengthy process. Not extremely complicated, but very slow moving.

Well that's kind of awkward, seeing as the work was created by a Metis artist.

[ue]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

In my own experience, First Nations relations are something that is both very explicit but hidden at the same time. What I mean is that the media often covers their general plight in one specific story or another, many meetings and conferences are started by "acknowledging that they are taking place on unceded Musqueam and Coast Salish territory" (which is said so passively that it's become as generic as "hi how are you"), and other things of that nature. In Metro Vancouver at least, we have reserves in the actual urban regions, so you often pass by them in travel. In fact, I live very near to one and often bike through it.

However, outside of these instances of common rhetoric and seeing their signs along a road, First Nations aren't really much of a factor in day-to-day life. I very rarely see "visible" Natives around. People don't really talk about them much, aside from the generic social program gripes, but even those are few and far in between. The Prairie stereotype of Natives as criminals doesn't really exist here either. Our biggest street gangs are mostly white, south and east Asian.

So it's quite strange really. First Nations and the issues surrounding them are something you often here about here, but very rarely ever actually experience first-hand.

Yeah, come to think of it, First Nations don't really feel that visible in Vancouver. When I think of the ethnographic makeup of Greater Vancouver succinctly, I think of it as Whites, East Asians, and South Asians. The FN presence is more felt in the urban fabric through public art and such. It's odd, because I know Vancouver has a pretty high FN population, especially compared to Eastern Canada, but it doesn't feel noticeable like in Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Calgary. I don't even remember seeing visibly FN people the last time I was in Vancouver.