Richmond, B.C., considers banning Chinese-only signage

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by dleung

A handful of Chinese board members conversing with each other in mandarin - that's what set this whole thing off?! Makes for great doomsday news headlines I guess, esp for folks like whatnext who call them "locusts" lol

No this is what set things off. Maybe you should spend less time being ethnically butthurt and more time thinking:

Andreas Kargut, a townhouse owner in Richmond, B.C., was shocked with the reply he got when he and a neighbour emailed their condo board this month asking to attend their next meeting.

The board president replied they were welcome to attend as observers.

“However, please understand the council team for this fiscal is using Mandarin as the preferred language for communication,” he went on.

“Therefore we have no intention of using English during the meeting on Dec. 8. That’s the most efficient way for the team this year.”

Kargut , one of the original owners in the 54-unit Wellington Court complex, built in 2004, said he felt discriminated against and filed a complaint with the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal.(bold mine)....

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/...1-4927f4a7dd96

[GlassCity]

Richmond city council passes policy encouraging 50% English on commercial signs
Policy puts down in writing what staff has been doing, but doesn't attempt legislating the issue

Richmond's city council has decided the current approach to dealing with English on commercial signs will be formalized into a written policy.

After months of debate, councillors unanimously voted to adopt a policy that encourages signs to be at least 50 per cent English.

It means the city will continue to have no bylaws regulating language on signs.

The city says a bylaw is not necessary, because "the educational approach to encouraging the use of 50 percent English on signs regulated by the City of Richmond has been 100 percent effective for all business signs," according to a staff report.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...t-11-1.4284713

So I guess there's an official policy now that signs will be 50/50 English at least, though it won't be legally binding. I wonder if there's anything about relative size or position in there, as in Bill 101.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Richmond city council passes policy encouraging 50% English on commercial signs
Policy puts down in writing what staff has been doing, but doesn't attempt legislating the issue


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...t-11-1.4284713

So I guess there's an official policy now that signs will be 50/50 English at least, though it won't be legally binding. I wonder if there's anything about relative size or position in there, as in Bill 101.

Typical Richmond wishy-washiness.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by whatnext

No this is what set things off. Maybe you should spend less time being ethnically butthurt and more time thinking:

Andreas Kargut, a townhouse owner in Richmond, B.C., was shocked with the reply he got when he and a neighbour emailed their condo board this month asking to attend their next meeting.

The board president replied they were welcome to attend as observers.

“However, please understand the council team for this fiscal is using Mandarin as the preferred language for communication,” he went on.

“Therefore we have no intention of using English during the meeting on Dec. 8. That’s the most efficient way for the team this year.”

Kargut , one of the original owners in the 54-unit Wellington Court complex, built in 2004, said he felt discriminated against and filed a complaint with the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal.(bold mine)....

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/...1-4927f4a7dd96

Wow that's really bad actually. Personally I will avoid businesses that only seem to want to deal with Manderine or Cantonese speaking customers. Signs should be at least 50% one official language. They are only hurting themselves in the long run. Just visit Chinatown East in Toronto. The mom and pop shops that do business this way seem to be failing and closing up.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Wow that's really bad actually. Personally I will avoid businesses that only seem to want to deal with Manderine or Cantonese speaking customers. Signs should be at least 50% one official language. They are only hurting themselves in the long run. Just visit Chinatown East in Toronto. The mom and pop shops that do business this way seem to be failing and closing up.

I don't see that happening in Richmond anytime soon...

[SpongeG]

it's not just businesses, many bus stops have chinese only ads.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

it's not just businesses, many bus stops have chinese only ads.

It should be illegal for Translink, an agency funded by all British Columbians, to run such exclusionary ads.

[esquire]

^ Exclusionary... good grief.

I mean, I see the issue when a condo board does all of its business in Cantonese, but a Chinese New Year themed Budweiser ad in Chinese? Who gives a flying eff?

[lio45]

Normally, don't you have to pay more for the privilege to be ad-free?

It's annoying to be targeted by marketing trying to convince you that you should buy stuff you don't want or need. It's generally regarded desirable to be able to shield yourself for it, either by paying or by making yourself immune in some other form.

[Acajack]

I won't likely be passing judgement on this measure and in the spirit of non-interference in other provinces' affairs am quite happy to sit on the sidelines and watch BCers sort this out themselves.

Anybody got some popcorn?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

For me, honestly, a blank bus stop wall and a blank bus stop wall with a picture of a pile of carrots and a bunny on it are approximately the exact same thing. It's like I paid to upgrade to an ad-free experience, except it didn't cost me anything

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I won't likely be passing judgement on this measure and in the spirit of non-interference in other provinces' affairs am quite happy to sit on the sidelines and watch BCers sort this out themselves.

Anybody got some popcorn?

Same here - BCers can do what they want, it's their business.

I just found it amusing that people would actually complain that they aren't being targeted by pesky, invasive, readable marketing! But otherwise, no comment!

(whatnext, if you give me your email address, I can register you to a few websites that will gladly send you spam in English. )

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by lio45

Same here - BCers can do what they want, it's their business.

I just found it amusing that people would actually complain that they aren't being targeted by pesky, invasive, readable marketing! But otherwise, no comment!

(whatnext, if you give me your email address, I can register you to a few websites that will gladly send you spam in English. )

Would you or Acajack be okay with predominantly English ads? Or if you already have them, are you?

It's an alteration of the landscape to accommodate non-locals. Silly things like signs or bus stop ads are manifestations in our geography of our language, people and culture. When they change into a language that locals don't understand, it is now a space for non-locals. In fact, it explicitly disregards them.

Now I understand that my nationalist tendencies easily come through here and aren't shared by all, but I do find it funny that it's controversial. Supporting local businesses and all that is considered "good," why isn't supporting local languages?

[GlassCity]

.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Would you or Acajack be okay with predominantly English ads? Or if you already have them, are you?

It's an alteration of the landscape to accommodate non-locals. Silly things like signs or bus stop ads are manifestations in our geography of our language, people and culture. When they change into a language that locals don't understand, it is now a space for non-locals. In fact, it explicitly disregards them.

Now I understand that my nationalist tendencies easily come through here and aren't shared by all, but I do find it funny that it's controversial. Supporting local businesses and all that is considered "good," why isn't supporting local languages?

No I am not OK with English only ad signs here as you can imagine. I think if I were maybe a Swede in Stockholm I'd be more zen but history makes a difference in how we view a number of things.

As for the situation in Richmond and Vancouver I can certainly understand and even be sympathetic to the people who are not comfortable with such things. I certainly will not scream racism automatically as soon as a concern is expressed, which seems to be the modus operandi of a lot of people these days.

Of course, I also know that the situation in the Vancouver area is quite different from what we had in Quebec at one point. You don't have Chinese, Philipino and even Anglos *becoming* Chinese-Canadians in Vancouver, for example.

So the short answer is that I am sympathetic, but it's not my battle. Or up to me to decide what to do.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Acajack

No I am not OK with English only ad signs here as you can imagine. I think if I were maybe a Swede in Stockholm I'd be more zen but history makes a difference in how we view a number of things.

As for the situation in Richmond and Vancouver I can certainly understand and even be sympathetic to the people who are not comfortable with such things. I certainly will not scream racism automatically as soon as a concern is expressed, which seems to be the modus operandi of a lot of people these days.

Of course, I also know that the situation in the Vancouver area is quite different from what we had in Quebec at one point. You don't have Chinese, Philipino and even Anglos *becoming* Chinese-Canadians in Vancouver, for example.

So the short answer is that I am sympathetic, but it's not my battle. Or up to me to decide what to do.

That's a fair point about people not becoming Chinese-Canadians. It's not a question of losing people as much as it is losing space. To me, the logical concluding question of Richmond continuing along the path it's going is if locals will still feel welcome there after all is said and done. Will it still be their space?

Oh of course, I didn't mean to suggest it was your battle or that you even have to have an opinion on it. I was responding more to Lio's remark that it may be peculiar that we would want to be targeted in ads. Obviously this isn't about the ads. Is this a local space, or a non-local space?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

That's a fair point about people not becoming Chinese-Canadians. It's not a question of losing people as much as it is losing space. To me, the logical concluding question of Richmond continuing along the path it's going is if locals will still feel welcome there after all is said and done. Will it still be their space?
(....). Obviously this isn't about the ads. Is this a local space, or a non-local space?

Actually the fight over the language of signs in Quebec was kind of about this too. Even if it was never really framed this way by anyone.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Oh of course, I didn't mean to suggest it was your battle or that you even have to have an opinion on it. I was responding more to Lio's remark that it may be peculiar that we would want to be targeted in ads.

It was always intended as a tongue-in-cheek comment, though.

I just found it amusing, as I was essentially picturing in my mind whatnext, upon receiving unsolicited spam mail in Chinese characters, contacting the sender to complain about it and to demand to receive a version in English.

My view is the same as Acajack: it's your problem, not mine (I have enough to care about, including, at the very fringe, stuff like my hometown's Amherst Street, that an invasion of Chinese signs in Richmond is just not making the list of things I'm willing to consider lifting a finger for) but I am fully sympathetic and understand your position very well.

[isaidso]

I don't see the problem with ads in another language. As long as I can access services in English or French I'm fine with it.

If Canada eventually became majority Mandarin, people can just learn Mandarin. It's not like this would happen overnight anyway. It would take many generations. Mandarin classes in grade school would become part of the curriculum well before we reached a tipping point.

[White Pine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Actually the fight over the language of signs in Quebec was kind of about this too. Even if it was never really framed this way by anyone.

I actually never understood that until this thread. I'm more sympathetic now lol.