ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[nature's calling]

https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/...elopment-74269

David Nelson, senior vice president with Atlanta developer Carter, said the first phase of the Turner Field redevelopment will include a spec, 30K SF office project geared toward creative office and co-working tenants. Construction financing would be packaged along with plans for a 120-unit multifamily project, both of which could start early next year.

Carter snagged two letters of intent with retailers, a brewery and a BBQ restaurant, for the 30K SF of retail space that is part of the first phase, Nelson said. And there is interest in other retailers, mostly restaurants and entertainment venues. The retail portion will break ground in October, while a planned 700-bed student housing tower should break ground in January, he said.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Martinman

96,000 sf grocer, 260 apartments, office Space

This is the type of mix of uses I expect to see around O4W along ponce and north Ave back to midtown. Not particularly the aesthetics of height of the buildings- but a healthy mix of options. If this is going to be a major transportation route with the north Ave streetcar, we should build to enhance that experience and support the surrounding residents.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

This is the type of mix of uses I expect to see around O4W along ponce and north Ave back to midtown. Not particularly the aesthetics of height of the buildings- but a healthy mix of options. If this is going to be a major transportation route with the north Ave streetcar, we should build to enhance that experience and support the surrounding residents.

PCM has caused a bunch of developers to build apartments around the area without retail. A terrible mistake IMO. The thing is I do understand that not every apartment block can have retail...even in Manhattan, the apartment buildings that line the park really don't have much of any retail.

[Vaden]

Originally Posted by RudyJK

I'm always amazed at how much love developments like Opus get. Look at that PARKING podium. How many cars will it house? It's built into the tower - never going away. I guess the fact that the jillion-space PARKING podium is mounted by an OK tower makes it palatable.

The vitriol is saved for Fuqua developments and his parking lots - which can be easily redeveloped when the time is right.

But those giant built-in parking deck monsters at Opus and across the street (the one disguised by a tacky graffitti mural) and elsewhere get a pass.

Do you honestly believe parking decks are a problem in Atlanta?? Do you know how many parking decks dot Manhattan? Do a quick search for Icon Parking Manhattan garages. You will be unpleasantly surprised by the hundreds they operate. Many of New York's garages look like the photo below. Parking within a building is a highly desirable amenity in New York than many people pay extra for (no, not everyone in New York rides the subway either). As for buildings with built-in parking decks? Ever heard of Marina City in Chicago? Looks fine to me, and I'd rather have that than an add-on deck. Contrary to what you are saying, they can, and have been, converted to other use.

Fairly typical Manhattan "garage" below:

[ATLmangum]

Totally agree. If I were to rent an apartment or own a condo, I would expect to have a covered place to park my car. As long as developers do a good job of incorporating the deck into the development I'm good. Let's please start applying common sense to some of our responses people.

[BunkyWay]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

PCM has caused a bunch of developers to build apartments around the area without retail. A terrible mistake IMO. The thing is I do understand that not every apartment block can have retail...even in Manhattan, the apartment buildings that line the park really don't have much of any retail.

The retail industry is currently in a death spiral. These developers are smart people and know a LOT more about market forces than you do.

[clexmond]

Originally Posted by BunkyWay

The retail industry is currently in a death spiral. These developers are smart people and know a LOT more about market forces than you do.

Certain types of retail, but restaurants and fitness-focused retail are definitely not in a death spiral.

[nature's calling]

Originally Posted by BunkyWay

The retail industry is currently in a death spiral. These developers are smart people and know a LOT more about market forces than you do.

Big box retail is, not necessarily specialty retail ala PCM

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by ATLmangum

Totally agree. If I were to rent an apartment or own a condo, I would expect to have a covered place to park my car. As long as developers do a good job of incorporating the deck into the development I'm good. Let's please start applying common sense to some of our responses people.

All parking is not going away, but we need to stop building it everywhere. A parking deck space costs $20k to build. It should not be included in the costs of housing. Those of us without cars should not be subsidizing drivers.

[scania]

Originally Posted by jsvh

All parking is not going away, but we need to stop building it everywhere. A parking deck space costs $20k to build. It should not be included in the costs of housing. Those of us without cars should not be subsidizing drivers.

Some of these statements are hilarious.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by scania

Some of these statements are hilarious.

Glad you find it funny, but subsidies for drivers far and away dwarf any other mode of transportation. Cars are also about the most dangerous, expensive, and least healthy method of transportation. I personally lean Libertarian and think we need to go towards letting the market decide (spoiler: less driving) but I can see why some might make a case for subsidizing healthier options like walking or biking, or more efficient options like rail. But there is no reason for our massive subsidies for driving.

I mean what if we made a law that said every building built had to include a transit station? The only thing that would get built is high-rises, the economics of single family homes would be unworkable. We are basically doing the reverse with our laws requiring parking. The economics of building something that requires large amounts of structured parking are tough to pull off.

[RudyJK]

Originally Posted by Vaden

Do you honestly believe parking decks are a problem in Atlanta??

Yes. I honestly do. Or rather the cars those decks house are the problem.

Everyone cheers in rapturous glee when a parking lot bites the dust. But those lots just get replaced with decks that contain 20 times the cars the original lot did. Which means 20 times the traffic. And zero infrastructure improvements to handle those cars. The decks are rarely pretty either.

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by scania

Some of these statements are hilarious.

it's actually true though - you basically pay for it whether or not you choose to use it. what makes it funny?

[scania]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Glad you find it funny, but subsidies for drivers far and away dwarf any other mode of transportation. Cars are also about the most dangerous, expensive, and least healthy method of transportation. I personally lean Libertarian and think we need to go towards letting the market decide (spoiler: less driving) but I can see why some might make a case for subsidizing healthier options like walking or biking, or more efficient options like rail. But there is no reason for our massive subsidies for driving.

I mean what if we made a law that said every building built had to include a transit station? The only thing that would get built is high-rises, the economics of single family homes would be unworkable. We are basically doing the reverse with our laws requiring parking. The economics of building something that requires large amounts of structured parking are tough to pull off.

I've a plethora of reasons, but I really don't care for starting a debate...even with your leaning Libertarian (I'm one of the most liberal people you would meet).

[Vaden]

Let me just clarify a little what I meant in my previous post. I was not necessarily singing the praises of parking decks. I was simply pointing out that parking for autos is not unique to Atlanta. Other cities, including the most urban city in the nation (NYC), also accommodate autos however they can. Those silly caged metal lifts that house autos all over central New York look worse to me. I just don't find allowing residents to have cars and parking for them is so awful. And I'd rather see a concrete one, although I support requirements to shield them better with living walls, trees, and or screening.

Now, having said that, I do NOT especially feel that EVERY development should have a huge parking deck. I think parking requirements should be reduced and eliminated in high density areas. I think Lilli also has the right idea. Make deals with the nearest parking deck. Going back to NYC again, let's remember that one of the biggest modes of transport in that city is TAXI CABS. And now Uber is probably a player. Reducing parking does not leave residents transport-less. New Yorkers are accustomed to using taxi cabs extensively, even in the jam-packed streets of NYC. I've often wondered why Atlantans don't utilize taxi service more. I am convinced a lot of this is mental mindset.

[nature's calling]

Apple is eying the Beltline for a new store, per the Atlanta Business Chronicle

You need a subscription to get past the paywall. But huge news nonetheless

[3yonce]

Originally Posted by nature's calling

Apple is eying the Beltline for a new store, per the Atlanta Business Chronicle

Glad that I won't have to go up to Lenox or Perimeter, but I wonder what this means for Colony Square.

[jtown,man]

I feel like most cities like Austin and Atlanta suffer from the same issues. The hardcore urbanist simply ignore where they actually live and the average folk in those cities forget they live in a....city. There is compromise.

Parking in Atlanta is just as important as parking in Norfolk, where I live. I wouldn't have got the apartment downtown that I have if it didn't have parking. I wanted to live in an urban area, and I do. I also work in a suburban hellhole. Can't change that. So my options were to live in an apartment near work where I would HAVE to drive everywhere to do anything. Or live somewhere I have to JUST drive to work and walk or ride my bike or train to get food, drink, get household items etc. I think we know which option is best for an urban environment and the actual environment.

Car decks are important in cities. Designing them right is also important, of course.

[alco89]

Originally Posted by nature's calling

Apple is eying the Beltline for a new store, per the Atlanta Business Chronicle

You need a subscription to get past the paywall. But huge news nonetheless

The Beltline? I'd rather it be in some place like Colony Square.

[Atlanta3000]

Apple Store/Colony Square/ Parking

Speaking of PARKING, here is the quote from the Atlanta Business Chronicle concerning the Apple Store at Colony Square:

Apple has toured other nearby projects, including Midtown’s Colony Square. Atlanta Business Chronicle reported last June that North American Properties, which is planning a major redevelopment of the well-known property at Peachtree and 14th streets, was courting Apple for the project.

Sources say Apple in recent weeks has toured Colony Square again. But, the retailer could have concerns about parking and the viability of retail along the Midtown Mile, an area that’s struggled to become the upscale shopping and dining district that’s long been envisioned.

This quote epitomizes what some of us on here have been saying about parking with regard to development in Atlanta.