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  #361  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2017, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernDancer View Post
And when someone points out that you're factually incorrect (which is almost every thread you post in), you respond with another strawman argument. Your mother must be so proud.
What's the point of this post?
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  #362  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2017, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Is the city of Paris really that comparable to Manhattan in terms of density?

my impression from several visits is that residential Manhattan is far denser than Paris

Firstly there are no major parks on the scale of central park in Paris (bois de bologne and vincennes are outside the city limits).
Wrong, they're both considered part of Paris City proper:


www.citymetric.com

Which is why density maps of the City Proper look like this (look carefully). Sounds weird but they're considered part of the City Proper probably due to their royal palaces:


https://upload.wikimedia.org

Basically anything outside these 20 arrondissements aren't technically Paris (though of course the city carries on far beyond that, with some areas even denser beyond this pale).


http://ajwalton.com


Bois de Boulogne is 2.5x the area of Central Park, and Bois de Vincennes is 3x. The remaining parks add up to about another 2x.





https://wikimedia.org


Ridiculous panoramas:

(This is only a fraction of the whole 360 panorama)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._July_2015.jpg


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-wladyslaw.jpg

Last edited by muppet; Jun 22, 2017 at 11:43 PM.
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  #363  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2017, 6:05 PM
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How they compare (these are not btw city propers nor city contiguous - not sure what the criteria for boundaries are here, perhaps the authors attempt to show the differences that's all).:


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com

Last edited by muppet; Jun 22, 2017 at 11:44 PM.
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  #364  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2017, 6:10 PM
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For, for one, I can see just Greater London and Moscow confined to city limits are used but NYC is well into Jersey suburbs, Long Island and upstate NY.
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  #365  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2017, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
For, for one, I can see just Greater London and Moscow confined to city limits are used but NYC is well into Jersey suburbs, Long Island and upstate NY.
Em, I think you prolly mean downstate not upstate.
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  #366  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 12:43 AM
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Are we forgetting that Manhatten, even with all of it's new supertalls and skyscrapers is still less dense than it was 80 years ago?

Skyscrapers will do little to nothing for central Paris.
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  #367  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by The North One View Post
Are we forgetting that Manhatten, even with all of it's new supertalls and skyscrapers is still less dense than it was 80 years ago?

Skyscrapers will do little to nothing for central Paris.
Most big first world cities are less dense than they were 80 years ago. That was a unique time in human history where the primacy of cities and limits of transportation made sense for people to crowd together more so than they did in the past or today.
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  #368  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 1:03 AM
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That's interesting about Bois de Bologne and vincennes being part of paris - I didn't know that.

Together, that's 7 square miles of forest bringing the ex-bologne and vincenns Paris to 34 square miles of city. add another 2x, at it's maybe 31 sq miles.

meanwhile Manhattan without central park is 22 square miles of borough (23 sq miles). 18% of the borough is parkland (around 4 sq miles), so that would leave 19.3 sq miles of city.

but my point about office vs residential in the two cities still stands.

that 22 square miles of Manhattan also contains what, 380 mm square feet of office space--the vast majority of the urban area's (and certainly NYC's) office footage. meanwhile the city of paris contains only about 160 mm sq feet of office, around 32% of the urban area total.
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  #369  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 1:06 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
For, for one, I can see just Greater London and Moscow confined to city limits are used but NYC is well into Jersey suburbs, Long Island and upstate NY.
yes, a bit weird to include everything down to Plainsboro and central Jersey as well as what looks like Bergen county (which is basically a forest with houses in it).
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  #370  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 2:36 AM
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Berlin in muppet's post ( #363 ) looks like a galaxy. Interesting regarding the population density. Various nodes (I presume large towns or small cities) pockets surrounding an elongated core. Very scattered. Londons map kinda looks like the continental U.S. map if you look at it from a Rorschach test standpoint. Uniformed density from a London standpoint. NJ does wonders to really bog down the density figures. Staten Island as well. But with NJ, outside of Hudson County, it's quite uniformed/constant density wise.
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  #371  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 3:03 AM
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I wonder how Los Angeles and Tokyo would fit into all this. Obviously LA would be less dense than any of these overall but I realized that LA's densest neighborhoods are probably denser than London's densest. Koreatown, Westlake, and Downtown LA (not including all the industrial land to the Southeast) are about 50,000 people/ sq mi. London's densest borroughs, Tower Hamlets, Islington, and Hackney are all about 40,000. London feels denser though over all, because it is, but also because it's suburbs are much denser than LA. And then Tokyo I wonder about because it is such a decentralized city with high and low density neighborhoods throughout.
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  #372  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by King Kill 'em View Post
And then Tokyo I wonder about because it is such a decentralized city with high and low density neighborhoods throughout.
Tokyo is more uniform moderate high density than variable. Its core neighborhoods have significantly lower density than, say, NYC, Paris, Barcelona.

London and LA have comparable core density, but obviously are very different at street level. It illustrates that density, while important, isn't the only factor in understanding cities.
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  #373  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
That's interesting about Bois de Bologne and vincennes being part of paris - I didn't know that.

Together, that's 7 square miles of forest bringing the ex-bologne and vincenns Paris to 34 square miles of city. add another 2x, at it's maybe 31 sq miles.

meanwhile Manhattan without central park is 22 square miles of borough (23 sq miles). 18% of the borough is parkland (around 4 sq miles), so that would leave 19.3 sq miles of city.

but my point about office vs residential in the two cities still stands.

that 22 square miles of Manhattan also contains what, 380 mm square feet of office space--the vast majority of the urban area's (and certainly NYC's) office footage. meanwhile the city of paris contains only about 160 mm sq feet of office, around 32% of the urban area total.
That is Boulogne, not Bologne. Bologne means Bologna in French where the famous baloney hails from.
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  #374  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by montréaliste View Post
Em, I think you prolly mean downstate not upstate.
No. NYC is downstate but the metro sprawls up into upstate past Westchester and Rockland counties.
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  #375  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 4:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
No. NYC is downstate but the metro sprawls up into upstate past Westchester and Rockland counties.
Downstate/Upstate is a matter of perspective, like Downtown/Uptown.

If you live in the City, Westchester is Upstate. If you live in Poughkeepsie, you have a very different definition that might not start until around Albany or so.

Personally, I think Upstate begins roughly where Metro North ends.
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  #376  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 4:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Downstate/Upstate is a matter of perspective, like Downtown/Uptown.

If you live in the City, Westchester is Upstate. If you live in Poughkeepsie, you have a very different definition that might not start until around Albany or so.

Personally, I think Upstate begins roughly where Metro North ends.
It is but not very many see Poughkeepsie as downstate, apart from a few people in Poughkeepsie differentiating themselves from Buffalo and Syracuse. Westchester is a whole different story; cities like Yonkers, Mt. Vernon and New Rochelle border the Bronx.
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  #377  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Tokyo is more uniform moderate high density than variable. Its core neighborhoods have significantly lower density than, say, NYC, Paris, Barcelona.

London and LA have comparable core density, but obviously are very different at street level. It illustrates that density, while important, isn't the only factor in understanding cities.
Yeah I think the messy curving streets of London play a big part in making it feel dense.
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  #378  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Tokyo is more uniform moderate high density than variable. Its core neighborhoods have significantly lower density than, say, NYC, Paris, Barcelona.
.
Kinda. Tokyo is dense everywhere, but it varies considerably depending on proximity to rail lines.

Tokyo is like Los Angeles in that it's higher density areas are ribboned throughout the metro the same way LA is along the Wilshire corridor.
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  #379  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
yes, a bit weird to include everything down to Plainsboro and central Jersey as well as what looks like Bergen county (which is basically a forest with houses in it).
yeah, and just as weird no long island. i dk why they did that, except maybe they just wanted to show general density and didnt care about accuracy so much.


but what i really want to know is if anyone has been to those incredible spiked density neighborhoods in jakarta -- and has pix of them?
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  #380  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2017, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
but what i really want to know is if anyone has been to those incredible spiked density neighborhoods in jakarta -- and has pix of them?

Probably a result of slums or overcrowding. This for example, is (I believe - based on this little map anyway) one of the more densely populated neighbourhoods in the city: https://goo.gl/maps/pdoRFmvsFDS2

Most of central Jakarta is pretty low-slung, comprised of mostly 1-3 storey buildings like that. Though from above you can see there's a lot more happening behind street level: https://goo.gl/maps/E5RsHoiBUDB2

I'd imagine in most cities of the developing world you'd see similar spikes in density around their poorer neighbourhoods. For example, Dharavi in Mumbai, with an estimated 750,000 people living in just 2 sqkm:


http://indianexpress.com/article/ind...ocess-2945006/
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