How has the culture of alcohol changed in your city/province since you were young?

[giallo]

I've always found the laws around alcohol in Canada fascinating. For a legal substance, there has always been so many caveats to its legality. This certainly depends from province to province as not all cultures in Canada treat alcohol in the same manner, but growing up in BC, alcohol always felt like it was quasi-legal. I would come back from a country like Malaysia, with its strict stance on alcohol consumption, and still feel like it was far more liberal in its attitude towards drinking than BC.

Alcohol was always very popular in BC, but heavily regulated. The provincial government controlled the sale of all hard liquor through government-run liquor stores. The only products private businesses could sell were cold beer and wine. We simply called them 'Cold Beer and Wine Stores'.

Today, a private store can sell liquor, but it must be purchased wholesale through the province. Stores are allowed to stay open until 11pm.

Open alcohol in BC was a major faux pas. Walking down the street with an open container would most definitely lead to a ticket, and possibly an arrest. There was zero tolerance, so it was very, very rare to see anyone walking around with a beer in their hand. Beaches and parks were favoured spots to drink, but one would have to be very convert in how they consumed their drink. Water bottles, thermoses, brown bags, and red cups were common.

Today, the rules are all over the place depending on the municipality. Vancouver has a few dozen parks and sections of streets were you can drink openly. Select beaches from May to October allow drinking.

As for walking around with an open container, this is still illegal, but not enforced in Vancouver. I see people walking around with beer on the street, in the bus, on the skytrain. I'm not sure what changed regarding enforcement, but it's clear that the VPD has simply given up or have more pressing issues than going after someone drinking a can of beer. A bottle might get you in trouble though. The rest of the province would probably still ticket you for any open container.

Bars, pubs and clubs would close at different times depending on their license. Pubs and bars would generally shut down by midnight with clubs going until 2am.

Not much has changed. Clubs serve until 3am now, but everything closes around the same time. Bars can serve until 2am.

One of the weirdest laws in BC back in the day was carrying your drink in a non-club environment. If you were drinking at a restaurant or bar, you were not allowed to stand and walk with a drink in hand. Switching tables would mean that your server would have to transfer your drinks to the next table. It was ridiculous, and thankfully no longer exists.

BC has definitely relaxed a lot since the 90s/early 2000s, but it's still got a lot of quirks when it comes to alcohol. One thing I've noticed is that the younger generation, Gen Z especially, don't drink much at all. Bars and clubs around Vancouver constantly mention how few young patrons they see. It could be a cost thing as going out is expensive, and there has been a serious push to remind people how unhealthy drinking is. The younger generation tend to favour edibles over alcohol, possibly due to these factors.

So how have things changed in your city or province? Is it the same as it always was or have you seen a more relaxed approach?

[niwell]

Interesting thread!

Things have changed quite a bit in Ontario starting with Wynne allowing beer/wine sales in many grocery stores and accelerated a fair bit under Ford. But it really took off during COVID when bars/restaurants were allowed off-sales which has led to the rise of independent bottle shops. The big issue that remains is the tax framework which mandates that bars/restaurants/bottle shops essentially purchase alcohol at the same cost that you would from the LCBO. So the specialty shops only really work for niche products (craft beer, high-end wine) that you can't get at the LCBO.

Ford has committed to breaking up the Master Framework with the Beer Store consortium and allow beer sales in convenience stores. However the result of this really depends on how sales to stores is allowed - currently grocery stores have beer and wine as a loss leader as they pay and sell at LCBO prices. If wholesale purchasing is allowed it could be interesting, but if not then it's probably not worth it for most retailers.

Drinking in parks has been semi-legalized in Toronto with a number of parks allowing it, but in classic "pilot project" fashion it's only 1-2 for each Ward. That being said there's virtually no enforcement on drinking in public and nobody really seems to care. In the summer you can actually buy "to-go" cocktails from a lot of bars and drink them on the street - particularly during street festivals. Rules around cordoned off outdoor patios have also disappeared and it's now allowed for bars to just put out a few chairs and tables on the sidewalk (provided it's wide enough). Street patios have become a permanent fixture as well, though last year was a bit of a flop due to onerous fees/application process that's hopefully been fixed for this year. A lot of bars also don't want to bother post-COVID as they already have a back patio and it's not worth the extra staffing now that capacity is back up to 100%.

There's still a lot of issues with alcohol in Ontario but it really is night and day compared to a decade ago. My biggest concern remains around the taxation and wholesale issue which is something that independent alcohol producers and retailers have been pushing for. Breaking up the Beer Store is almost meaningless if it only benefits the big producers and doesn't allow competitive pricing for retailers/bars. I'm actually fine with the LCBO as it's become a pretty decent retail experience with generally good selection across the board. It could be complimented very well with independent retailers if the pricing issue is fixed.

[Innsertnamehere]

I mean most of Canada is shockingly puritanical on Alcohol.

Doug Ford's premiership in Ontario has been good for alcohol liberalization in Ontario - much to the behest of many public health organizations. I have a friend who works in public health and they are all freaking out about the liberalization that has occurred under Ford, which is honestly still pretty minor.

Changes include an upcoming liberalization of wine and beer sales to allow any retailer to sell it and set their own pricing. Liquor is still going to be restricted to the LCBO though. We'll at least get Costco Beer and wine sales in 2026 with discounted pricing. Up until now a limited number of sales licenses have been provided to grocery stores for no more than 6 packs of beer and wine, with pricing still regulated to match the LCBO. The new rules will allow any retailer to sell any quantity at whatever price they wish.

Ford has also deregulated a lot of laws around drinking locations, allowing municipalities to permit drinking in parks.. similar to BC, there has been a very haphazard rollout of this. Ford also allowed retailers to sell alcohol for "takeout", which is new, through the pandemic.

A lot of odd regulations still remain.. strict rules on patios serving alcohol, 2am bar closure times in most of the province (though my understanding is that this is purely municipal regulation), rules on time of alcohol sales, open containers remain illegal in public outside of sanctioned parks, etc.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Changes include an upcoming liberalization of wine and beer sales to allow any retailer to sell it and set their own pricing. Liquor is still going to be restricted to the LCBO though..

Ford has also deregulated a lot of laws around drinking locations, allowing municipalities to permit drinking in parks.. similar to BC, there has been a very haphazard rollout of this. Ford also allowed retailers to sell alcohol for "takeout", which is new, through the pandemic.

A lot of odd regulations still remain.. strict rules on patios serving alcohol, 2am bar closure times in most of the province (though my understanding is that this is purely municipal regulation), rules on time of alcohol sales, open containers remain illegal in public outside of sanctioned parks, etc.

Bottle shops are allowed to set their own pricing as they technically operate under the same licensing scheme as bars/restaurants. However as I mentioned they can't get wholesale pricing (direct purchase from breweries/vineyards is a small exception) so prices will be considerably more expensive than the LCBO. They can also sell liquor due to this licensing arrangement - most don't as it would be prohibitively expensive unless it's a niche product.

Most of the rules surrounding patios have been relaxed - no more roped off areas and you don't need servers to bring your drinks out anymore. Though to be fair I'm not sure if the latter is on the books - nobody cares though and none of the bar owners I know in Toronto have seen an AGCO inspector since pre-COVID. 11pm cutoffs have to do with municipal noise bylaws and on certain commercial streets can be avoided.

[jonny24]

The regulatory environment has changed a fair bit in Ontario, but I'd say that the culture around drinking hasn't. The rules are just changing to catch up to the existing attitudes.

[Innsertnamehere]

wait, patios don't have to be roped off any more? I swear I remember seeing closed in "beer gardens" at large events still as recently as last summer. Maybe I'm wrong.

In terms of pricing - yea, my understanding is that the current regulations set a minimum price equal to the LCBO price, but retailers are free to mark it up if they want.. most Grocers right now just match LCBO pricing though. Bottle shops are a bit different and function more like a restaurant and have higher prices generally than the minimum price.

The big change in 2026 will be moving to a more "US / Alberta" model of alcohol sales for Beer and Wine, with minimal restrictions on who can sell it and for what price, provided the retailer is paying the applicable taxes for it. Post-2026 we should see retailers like Costco selling 36-packs of beer for prices undercutting the Beer Store, for example - though it'll still be expensive, and you won't be able to buy 2l jugs of Vodka like you can in Alberta and the US.

I think we need to look at regulations about marijuana sales as well. the current model not allowing windows into stores is ridiculous and they need to liberalize sourcing of product too, which from my understanding still has to go directly through the government so all retailers are basically selling the same product.

[WhipperSnapper]

Young people drinking less is interesting. It's certainly more expensive but I wonder if fewer people having the full university/residency experience and those that do being under age (in Ontario) during their first year has any impact. It's a Toronto centic point of view. Everyone else from Southern Ontario and the outer 905 in my residence were lushes by 15.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

wait, patios don't have to be roped off any more? I swear I remember seeing closed in "beer gardens" at large events still as recently as last summer. Maybe I'm wrong.

Beer Gardens at events are a bit different I think. You now have the option to license the entire event so that alcohol can be consumed freely throughout but a lot of organizers choose not to do so for whatever reason (I assume liability?). I believe street festivals also have this option as I've seen it at a craft beer festival in Toronto's East End that closed down a few blocks of Eastern Ave. It's a bit weird at most street festivals now where you have a beer garden but bars and restaurants are also just selling cans and premade cocktails to-go on the street. Restaurant patios no longer need strict delineation that used to be required though.

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Young people drinking less is interesting. It's certainly more expensive but I wonder if fewer people having the full university/residency experience and those that do being under age (in Ontario) during their first year has any impact. It's a Toronto centic point of view. Everyone else from Southern Ontario and the outer 905 in my residence were lushes by 15.

It's definitely noticeable that younger people are drinking less. However I was a bit excited to see that one of my in-laws who went to Queen's this year seemed to have a similar experience to my time in residence. Also my local bar being invaded by people in their early 20s on the weekend before St. Paddy's (normally the crowd is 30s/40s).

[Innsertnamehere]

Alcohol sales have been dropping on a per-capita basis for about the last 15 years:



And this is despite very large relaxations in alcohol regulations in this time.

[WarrenC12]

Young people drinking less goes all the way down to high school. They just aren't as interested in it anymore. Other drugs taking precedence maybe? Hard to say.

Weed (illegal at the time of course) and alcohol were prevalent in the 90s when I was in high school.

[DesignerGuy]

I am in my early 50s and grew up in a time when drinking was never considered taboo or unhealthy. i think my generation still likely drinks the most but getting hammered is much less frequent lol

I still enjoy wine and cocktails on the weekends. My entire friends group drinks so the culture is still very strong for my cohort.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by jonny24

The regulatory environment has changed a fair bit in Ontario, but I'd say that the culture around drinking hasn't. The rules are just changing to catch up to the existing attitudes.

I would say that the attitude is moving slightly more towards a healthier European-style relationship with alcohol versus the dichotomous North American puritanical abstinence versus hard drinking culture of the past for the majority.

I am not sure if the other choices in life just are more ‘appealing’ to the former drinking crowd. Marijuana as a replacement for the lighter drinkers, harder drugs for those who would have been heavy drinkers in past times. The former, I can live with as a bad case of the munchies is about the worst side effect. The latter I am torn about. Functional heavy drinkers were messy to deal with (alcohol is a fairly destructive drug), but they generally didn’t die from tainted booze in the short-term.

It certainly is more expensive than before and the number of bars/watering holes have declined precipitously.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by thewave46

healthier European-style relationship with alcohol versus the dichotomous North American puritanical abstinence versus hard drinking culture

Southern European. Up top, it's the binging.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Young people drinking less is interesting. It's certainly more expensive but I wonder if fewer people having the full university/residency experience and those that do being under age (in Ontario) during their first year has any impact. It's a Toronto centic point of view. Everyone else from Southern Ontario and the outer 905 in my residence were lushes by 15.

I suspect it breaks down on a cultural basis and where those residents live.

The European descended residents of Ontario just have a stronger relationship with drinking culture, for better or worse.

Toronto is just ahead of the general population curve.

[MolsonExport]

I drank like a fish until my mid forties, and now I barely touch the stuff.
Haven't smoked weedin 5 years, and I may never partake again.

Booze was a mainstay of growing up in the 70s/80s (I became an adult in 1987, but I had fake ID for years before that time). So too were cigarettes (I quit smoking when I got married, after trying to quit many dozens of times beforehand). In high school, hash was much easier to come by than pot. Acid (LSD) was also quite popular (haven't done that in....nearly a quarter century).

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Southern European. Up top, it's the binging.

The Swedish liquor monopoly (which is quite possibly illegal under EU law) is kept in place by the culture's sense of unease/shame with its own drinking habits.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Southern European. Up top, it's the binging.

Still? The Danes had a pretty sensible relationship to booze in my travels there.

I mean, they’d joke somewhat disparagingly about the Swedes who would come over to Copenhagen and promptly lose all self-control in the face of the cheaper booze.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Still? The Danes had a pretty sensible relationship to booze in my travels there.

I mean, they’d joke somewhat disparagingly about the Swedes who would come over to Copenhagen and promptly lose all self-control in the face of the cheaper booze.

Maybe they did a little better than the ferry Swedes, but Copenhagen was the first city I have ever seen where it wasn't uncommon for fairly well-dressed women on a night out to squat in the road and urinate after about 11 p.m.

Weirdly, I saw more of this sort of behaviour in the nicer areas than in the worse ones. Maybe a consequence of safety or a kind of privilege? The 7-Eleven at Trianglen in Østerbro got really messy on the weekends!

[niwell]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Maybe they did a little better than the ferry Swedes, but Copenhagen was the first city I have ever seen where it wasn't uncommon for fairly well-dressed women on a night out to squat in the road and urinate after about 11 p.m.

Weirdly, I saw more of this sort of behaviour in the nicer areas than in the worse ones. Maybe a consequence of safety or a kind of privilege? The 7-Eleven at Trianglen in Østerbro got really messy on the weekends!

When I was in Denmark it happened to fall on a long weekend and I vividly remember the crowds of wasted people in open areas of Vestebro and in Nørrebro near where we were staying. Reminded me of last call in the heyday of Toronto's Entertainment District but... everywhere, and much earlier in the night. We frequented 7-Eleven for cheap(ish) late night hot dogs and it kinda had the vibe of the Queen and Spadina McDonalds late on a Friday night.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by giallo

Bars, pubs and clubs would close at different times depending on their license. Pubs and bars would generally shut down by midnight with clubs going until 2am.

Not much has changed. Clubs serve until 3am now, but everything closes around the same time. Bars can serve until 2am.

One of the weirdest laws in BC back in the day was carrying your drink in a non-club environment. If you were drinking at a restaurant or bar, you were not allowed to stand and walk with a drink in hand. Switching tables would mean that your server would have to transfer your drinks to the next table. It was ridiculous, and thankfully no longer exists.

The licensing laws in BC seem to have been relaxed quite a bit compared to what I've heard they were like even just 10-15 years ago; but then, even now you still get stuff like this from time to time - eg. a bar being shut down because patrons were...dancing (!) on New Year's eve: https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/taco...orarily-closed

Originally Posted by thewave46

I would say that the attitude is moving slightly more towards a healthier European-style relationship with alcohol versus the dichotomous North American puritanical abstinence versus hard drinking culture of the past for the majority.

Definitely seems to be the case, though a strong teetotaling streak no doubt remains here as well. All those tight-assed Presbyterians are still around - their concerns & general aversion towards alcohol now just come from a place of "public health" instead of religion.